Danger of Islam!

[restin]

[quote:17puudgm]"1. Do you remember one of the main postulates of Nazi ideology? Correct it’s the idea of the Superior Race. And how do the Muslims call themselves?

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yes, indeed... I'd like to see any true extremist muslim. To me in their interactions with me they were always very balanced, very outgoing people.

They actually seemed more sane than most people out here, because they felt like guests, they did not feel like many white people who think they are at home in north america. This is the land of the native, it has always been and they are drugging the native population to make them so numb they forget, if you saw what happened here you could draw thousands of parallels. And now they're pissed that it dosen't work with the muslim so they hire jerks with no life, dress them as muslim and make them sacrifice themselves or create violence so they have a justification for the crap they tell us in the news.

I call the bullshit rule, Zezt you smell like a troll.

I'm really beginning to think he does, god... this makes no sense at all.

I'd bet you're a freakin target of the monarch operations, you should be getting help... I don't like to see you hurting yourself like this.

 

[redhawk]

This is leading nowhere.

Agree!

This is the land of the native, it has always been and they are drugging the native population to make them so numb they forget, if you saw what happened here you could draw thousands of parallels.

 

[magickmumu]

Stop fighting the shadows of nazi germany.
This is not about Jews or nazism.
This is about woman being head shot by the Taliban in the Kabul stadium.


It's not all black and white.

 

[magickmumu]

Him and the dutch "politician" that was mentioned in several posts very negatively earlyer in this thread were friends .

Yes
They where friends.
Van Gogh even made a movie about the conspiracy's (joint strike fighter) surrounding the murder on Fortyun.

 

[magickmumu]

Yes you have . I said it ages ago here in another thread . I saw a program about the guy who had been murdered and it talked about his right wing views , his friendship / links to the politician and that he was a trouble maker with a history of mental problems .

Maybe Van Gogh had mental problems. But he also made a shit load of movie's.
Van Gogh was a director he made TV programs and wrote books. Looking at what he produced he must have been a very busy man.

He was not like Wilders only talking about the Islam. Neither was Fortuyn.
Fortuyn for example wanted to make the army much smaller.
Fortuyn never would have banned the mushroom.
here are Van Gogh and fortune discussing the EU.
(with subtitles)

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yes
They where friends.
Van Gogh even made a movie about the conspiracy's (joint strike fighter) surrounding the murder on Fortyun.

You mean Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn were friends, which everyone knows and can understand (both were smart and broadminded). But whether Theo was ever 'friends' with Geert Wilders is questionable. I can imagine they agreed on the matter of Islam, but not on much else.

 

[magickmumu]

No i don't think he was friends with Wilders.
I misunderstood

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yeah heaven, hell, holy land... all worlds, it does not include a planet, it's written black on like old golden yellow ; this is far from a vedic text no ? Or would it be a coincidence india is the only country that openly rejects it ?

I don't understand what you're trying to say. The worlds does include all the planets within them, including the earth. And like I tried to explain, the Quran draws heavily on its Persian heritage, which in turn stems from the ancient (not the modern) Vedic era. But in the Vedas and Puranas there are no suggestions to spread any particular religion or set of laws all over the world. India has always been the home of many different religions: the jains, the buddhists, the vaisnavas, the shaivites, the sikhs, the christians, the muslims etc., each with their numerous subbranches. When I was an active vaisnava I was tought to respect the Quran and Bible as scriptures similar to the Vedas, and the names Allah and Jehova as referring to the same almighty known to others as Vishnu etc. We had scholars pointing out the many similarities between the Purana's, the Bible, the Quran and the Torah. Where do you base your statement on, that India is the only country that openly rejects the Quran?

What I'm saying is that mohammed made a nice meta-cube of information meant for his people to live in peace with their own origin and transcend the cube for themselves and become one big community.

It sounds nice that way, but practically he created another sect.

Hitting on a woman here means you are trying to seduce her... and it must mean mohammed meant it literally ? Thats total nonsense...

Hitting on a woman? We're talking about slapping women in the face here, beating them for not being a submissive wife at all times (like my neighbour in Amsteram would do a couple of times a week). There are no stories of Mohamed seducing anyone.

Yes, indeed... I'd like to see any true extremist muslim. To me in their interactions with me they were always very balanced, very outgoing people.

They actually seemed more sane than most people out here, because they felt like guests, they did not feel like many white people who think they are at home in north america.

"They" is just another generalization. Yes, there are lots of muslims by birth who fit your description. But were they really studying the Quran and going to the Mosque to pray every day? Were they abstaining from all intoxicating substances, including all entheogens?

[quote:13ywm6by]And now they're pissed that it dosen't work with the muslim so they hire jerks with no life, dress them as muslim and make them sacrifice themselves or create violence so they have a justification for the crap they tell us in the news.

Now that's what I call utter nonsense, sorry for being so bold. No one payed the thousands of muslims rioting in the streets of Denmark and other European countries. You're denying the fact that "dressing up like a muslim" and "sacrificing themselves" isn't anything new or invented by recent imams or politicians. It's something that's encouraged again and again in the Quran itself. (To avoid misunderstandings: I'm not talking about the really big terror attacks we saw in the past decade. Some of them were indeed False Flag operations.)

I call the bullshit rule, Zezt you smell like a troll.

[/quote:13ywm6by]
I agree zezt's last post, and some of his other posts in this thread, lack the personal touch that makes discussion of such issues a community thing, rather than a throwing of videos and web urls at eachother. A quote or a link is fine to illustrate your own views, but please also participate in the discussion, on a personal level. Also: please be clear as to what you think should be done about the problem, and how it all ties in with being a psychonaut.

 

[zezt]

Yes, indeed... I'd like to see any true extremist muslim. To me in their interactions with me they were always very balanced, very outgoing people.

They actually seemed more sane than most people out here, because they felt like guests, they did not feel like many white people who think they are at home in north america. This is the land of the native, it has always been and they are drugging the native population to make them so numb they forget, if you saw what happened here you could draw thousands of parallels. And now they're pissed that it dosen't work with the muslim so they hire jerks with no life, dress them as muslim and make them sacrifice themselves or create violence so they have a justification for the crap they tell us in the news.

I call the bullshit rule, Zezt you smell like a troll.

I'm really beginning to think he does, god... this makes no sense at all.

I'd bet you're a freakin target of the monarch operations, you should be getting help... I don't like to see you hurting yourself like this.

You really are NOT a troll, but the typical usual forum member who just cannot or will not look AT the links, articles, presented and in a defensive ignore-ant way begin attacking the person presenting the (unseen?) evidence as being a troll, a this, a that. Actually a 'troll' is defined:

"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT redirect here. For the Wikipedia essay, see "What is a troll?". For other uses see Troll (disambiguation).

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

Now, I am not off topic, or irrelevant----of COURSE to some of you I am controversial, and this fires up your emotions. But that is your responsibility not mine. I am just exploring what I feel needs to be explored. Very MUCH so

I also feel very strongly for the natives of America, but this TOPIC is not about them, it is about the 'Danger of Islam', and I am also trying to show how Islamic fascism might be compared to Nazism. Di you even read the article? Can you discuss points of it you dont agree with? Surely that is discussion

Did you see Submission and women's experience of the Shariah Law? Did you...?

Did you hear CM say how HE has Muslim friends, but they are far away from the indoctrination of the Qu'ran?

 

[JJJ]

The Muslims believe that all the Non-Muslims are “kaffirs

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

No i don't think he was friends with Wilders.
I misunderstood

Just so everyone here understands: two Dutch celebrities were killed. Theo van Gogh was killed in 2004, by a muslim. That muslim claims he didn't kill Theo because he felt offended by him, but because it was his religious duty to do so.

Mohammed Bouyeri murdered Van Gogh in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat, while he was bicycling to work. He shot him eight times with an HS 2000 handgun, and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.

Pim Fortuyn was killed in 2002 by a vegan. He was shot on the parking lot of the Dutch TV studios. He wasn't killed for his Islamic views, although that's what everyone thought at first. As it turns out, he was killed by an animal rights activist, Volkert van der Graaf. Later on, however, Van der Graaf confessed in court to murdering Fortuyn to stop him from targeting "the weak parts of society to score points" and exploiting Muslims as "scapegoats" seeking political power.

Here are Pim's views on Islam, according to the wikipedia:

[quote:30q4k38c]On February 9, 2002, he made further controversial statements in a Dutch newspaper, this time the Volkskrant.[5] He said that the Netherlands, with a population of 16 million, had enough inhabitants, and therefore, the practice of allowing as many as 40,000 asylum-seekers into the country each year had to be stopped (however, the actual number was not that high and already falling at that time[11]). He claimed that if he became part of the next government, he would pursue a restrictive immigration policy while also granting citizenship to a large group of illegal immigrants. Remarkably, he said that he did not intend to "unload our Moroccan hooligans" onto the Moroccan king Hassan [12]. This king had died three years earlier[13]. Furthermore, he considered Article 7 of the constitution, which asserts freedom of speech, of more importance than Article 1, which forbids discrimination on the basis of religion, life principles, political inclination, race, or sexual preference. However, he distanced himself from Hans Janmaat of the Centrum Democraten, who in the 1980s wanted to remove all foreigners from the country and was repeatedly convicted for discrimination and hate speech.

Fortuyn proposed that all people who already resided in the Netherlands would be able to stay, but he emphasized the need of the immigrants to adopt the Dutch society's consensus on human rights as their own. He said "If it were legally possible, I'd say no more Muslims will get in here", claiming that the influx of Muslims would threaten freedoms in the liberal Dutch society. He thought Muslim culture had never undergone a process of modernisation and therefore still lacked acceptance of democracy and women's, gays', lesbians' and minorities' rights, and feared it would dismiss the Dutch legal system in favour of the shari'a law.

One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism[14]".

When asked by the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant whether he hated Islam, he replied:
“ I don't hate Islam. I consider it a backward culture. I have travelled much in the world. And wherever Islam rules, it's just terrible. All the hypocrisy. It's a bit like those old reformed protestants. The Reformed lie all the time. And why is that? Because they have standards and values that are so high that you can't humanly maintain them. You also see that in that Muslim culture. Then look at the Netherlands. In what country could an electoral leader of such a large movement as mine be openly homosexual? How wonderful that that's possible. That's something that one can be proud of. And I'd like to keep it that way, thank you very much. [15]

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

These views I think are much more dangerous than the Islam itself is 'dangerous'. Yes, believing many things in the Quran is stupid, but thinking that Muslims are less than human like this is just as stupid.

Who said muslims are less than human?

Did you hear CM say how HE has Muslim friends, but they are far away from the indoctrination of the Qu'ran?

Yes, I've had friends from muslim families, though I've never been friends with practicing muslims. I did have a friend, born in the Netherlands, who was a serious muslim for more than three years (i.e. studying the Quran and praying every day). When he finally left Islam to explore hinduism, he received death threats for months on end. When I met him in Antwerpen, I had long conversations with him about Islam. Later on I read a book on the matter, which simply repeated everything he had told me, but from a scholarly point of view. A year later I lived in an apartment next to a moroccan family. They were alway friendly to us, but we could hear through the walls that the man of the house beat and verbally abused his wife at least two times a week. At age 13 I received a death threat from a fellow I knew, Saïd.

 

[GOD]

"They were alway friendly to us, but we could hear through the walls that the man of the house beat and verbally abused his wife at least two times a week. At age 13 I received a death threat from a fellow I knew, Saïd."


A therapy might have helped you .

 

[JJJ]

Who said muslims are less than human?

Zezt said. His idea that all Muslims consider it their duty to 'kill, rob enslave or exterminate' non-Muslims dehumanizes them, at least from my idea of what is a human. And of course the idea of Muslims as he describes them is nonsense, as 99% of them could never recognize themselves in it. I think Zezts statements in this post are purely racist.

A year later I lived in an apartment next to a moroccan family. They were alway friendly to us, but we could hear through the walls that the man of the house beat and verbally abused his wife at least two times a week.

Be careful with this kind of reasoning, I would say. Enough Christian and secular men that beat their kids and women, without first having to read about it any kind of book. The problem of such people I think is mostly a personal problem. If the link between Islam and beating your wife were so strong and inevitable, then most of the Muslim men would beat their wifes I think, and I know they don't.

The thing is: there is no real danger, not really a problem. Muslims aren't going to take over our culture. It's impossible, the western ideas are too deeply rooted here, and our whole system of welfare is connected to them. We would never want to go back into the Dark Ages, and never will, at least not by the immigration of Muslims. In fact, I see no reason why Islam would not evolve into more modern forms, as (most of) Christianity did. In the mean time, we can do nothing more than we already did: fight household violence and all the other problems as much as is needed, whether they are induced by Islam or not. All other options (banning the Quran etc.) lead to anger between groups of people, generalization, polarization, civil war really. We don't know if the Muslim faith is really harmful to people, but it doesn't matter: cultures can only evolve from inside, you cannot impose revolutions on them from outside, with that you can only make enemies, I think.

But hmm, I agree that you shouldn't be too relativistic about faiths. If a holy book literally dictates violence, hatred etc., then that's a bad thing. The book could use some modernization then, so let's be happy that the Muslim society around the world stands in increasing contact with the western world, so that they can pick up some good things from it. Maybe strange cultures are a bit like hungry birds: they will slowly but inevitably come closer if you hospitably show what you have to offer, but when you make sudden movements that can be interpreted as hostile, they're gone again.

 

[GOD]

Several posts in this thread break the rules of the forum . Rasism isnt allowed .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Zezt said. His idea that all Muslims consider it their duty to 'kill, rob enslave or exterminate' non-Muslims dehumanizes them, at least from my idea of what is a human.

Still, it's you who considers that less than human.

I think Zezts statements in this post are purely racist.

Against what race?

Be careful with this kind of reasoning, I would say.

That paragraph was just a summary of some of my interactions, I didn't draw any conclusions from them.

Enough Christian and secular men that beat their kids and women, without first having to read about it any kind of book.

I know.

We would never want to go back into the Dark Ages, and never will,

I rest my case... :wink:

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

The book could use some modernization then,

That would be a heresy. The book is the spotless message of Allah Himself, it cannot be edited or modernized. Modern commentaries can be developed however, and that's something that will hopefully happen, like you say, from within. Up until now writing such commentaries has always been a risky business though. Many revolutionaries have been killed by fellow muslims.

Banning the book is of course no option, just like you can't ban the Bible. But you can point out that it's a book that should be considered a historical artifact, not the word of God.

 

[Meduzz]

I think Zezts statements in this post are purely racist.

Against what race?

"A year later I lived in an apartment next to a moroccan family. They were alway friendly to us, but we could hear through the walls that the man of the house beat and verbally abused his wife at least two times a week."

How did you know they were Islamic?

We all generalise. It's easy.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Several posts in this thread break the rules of the forum . Rasism isnt allowed .

Psychonauts are by nature interested in different philosophies, traditions and religions. If racism disappeared anywhere, it was in the hippie movement, where cannabis, psychedelics and eastern philosophy made people see beyond the color of skin or the country of birth. You'll see hippies and psychonauts discuss religion, but such discussions do not involve racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism: "Many use the term "racism" to refer to more general phenomena, such as xenophobia and ethnocentrism, although scholars attempt to clearly distinguish those phenomena from racism as an ideology."