Danger of Islam!

[Caduceus Mercurius]

You cannot see intolerant Islam apart from intolerant Christianity because the latter spawned the first. If you want to understand the extreme Islam, you have to look at extreme christianity

That is a very good point! The two are definitely related.

 

[HeartCore]

You cannot see intolerant Islam apart from intolerant Christianity because the latter spawned the first. If you want to understand the extreme Islam, you have to look at extreme christianity

That is a very good point! The two are definitely related.

I never realized how close until I read 'Jesus and the lost Goddess'. Outstanding historical work about the history of literal Christianity and (partly) Islam. Both ideologies see women as lesser creatures due to taking the myth of Adam & Eve as a historical account.

 

[Brugmansia]

Religion is a label just as any brand, structure or authority. The human mind answers with the same behaviour through the same known passages. It makes us bang our hand on our chest and shout our identity. And makes us think about how'd fight for our conquered domination, and we won't rest untill we have planted our native flag or our autonomous idea anywhere for recognition. That, or at least fight for it blindly to avoid change.

Objectively speaking, we made the same contraction prior to the mushroom ban. I'm not making any classification about right, justice or good or bad.

But it makes you wonder how the old Greeks, with no power of any kingdom or empire, with no structure or authority, managed it to establish such brilliant developments and a love/lust society all with each other. Like they weren't forced to make choices.

Perhaps it are homo sapiens who are getting a bigger head but a decreased intelligence in dexterity.

 

[Forkbender]

The opposition will be fiercer, but not bigger.

Why do you think that? I'm quite sure both will happen.

Because if Islam grows, there will be fewer people who are non-muslim, which is simple math.

Do you think drawing a cartoon is as violent as beheading a cartoonist? That's the kind of balance we're dealing with here. None of us are suggesting violence.

Proof that muslims beheaded a cartoonist.

[quote:q1s9czb2]What is true Islam? Where does it exist? There are so many different forms that cannot be reduced to each other that you cannot speak of one true Islam. So please explain what you mean.

I've posted a couple of quotes above, and I hope you read them one by one. That is the Islam we have issues with. If a person proclaims to follow the Quran yet doesn't openly denounce the above statements, he or she either directly or indirectly practicing the Islam I'm talking about. And that means a lot of modern muslims actually, because they too, like us, are too afraid to speak out about it.[/quote:q1s9czb2]

Islam is a religion, it is not a collection of quotes. Religion without practice is just words and does not embody the true Islam. Show me where those quotes of you are reflected in their common practice.

I have heard many muslims denounce the violent acts commited by extremists.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Because if Islam grows, there will be fewer people who are non-muslim, which is simple math.

The situation isn't that simple though. Currently most non-muslims do not oppose Islam. But when Islam becomes more prominant and then dominant in the West, a larger percentage of the non-muslims will start to feel uneasy about it and there will be more opposition (in the media etc.).

Proof that muslims beheaded a cartoonist.

We've got reasonably good (but expensive) security experts preventing such things from happening. Not a cartoonist but a film maker and writer was killed sacrificially on the streets of Amsterdam though.

Islam is a religion, it is not a collection of quotes. Religion without practice is just words and does not embody the true Islam.

There is disagreement as to what is true Islam, but as mentioned before, the Quran takes a central role in Islam. And the Quran is a collection of quotes. I already cited scholars who explained that Islam is the most scripture-based religion of them all. That's why we have a problem.

Show me where those quotes of you are reflected in their common practice.

Not "their". We're not talking people here, but a religious system. The impact that this system has on these people and on the world around them. We don't hate the muslims, we feel compassion for them, for the dominant religious system is depriving them of genuine freedom and happiness. Yes, muslims can be happy, but it's not necessarily to the credit of the religion.

Danger occurs when a person starts reading the Quran fanatically, say, a couple of hours a day (like I did with the Bhagavad-gita a decade ago). Then the mere quotes (and many like them) will be read over and over again. Such people can become dangerous to themselves and their surroundings.

For both reasons, both the misery and the danger, we may tell people to take a more cricital look at their religion. All religions. There seems to be a heavy taboo on discussing Islam. One can write anything about Christianity and there will be no objections. I've been critical of Hinduism and there were no objections. But if I'm critical of Islam I'm "playing nazi games"? :?

 

[Forkbender]

Not "their". We're not talking people here, but a religious system.

Religions don't exist outside of the people who practice it.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'm not saying I follow those principles, I don't live there.

I think zezt was mainly concerned with Islam 'here', in the UK and Europe, rather than 'there'. It's not about the Arab or Babylonian world, or about a certain region. It's about the authority structure of Islam mainly, which is rooted in the Quran. The question we're discussing is quite a peculiar one: can a text be dangerous to humanity?

 

[GOD]

"I think zezt was mainly concerned with Islam 'here',"

I dont .

"can a text be dangerous to humanity?"

I think most of zests and some of yours are .

 

[magickmumu]

In the middle ages a lot of people didn't know how to read and didn't understood Latin.
In the Muslim world today this is still the case with some f believers.
They learn to read to Quran but they don't understand it.
The Imam Teaches them about the ideology.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Well I have read some of it... and those people do not understand the text at all.

This religion is meant to preserve an old tradition and a way in which a certain people realise their freedom.

Beleive it or not the american way of life does not liberate everyone ; some people, in fact most people do get caged in their perceived liberty !

It's written very clearly in the book that it's not meant to be exported or used to convert people ; that is wrathful. It's not for nothing they call their place their holy land ; it means to be a true follower of Allah, you must live out there, or you're just being pathetic and unflexible.

Theres passages in the holy bible too about people killing others because they don't bleeive in the "one" god... of pestilence being casted upon whole egyptian populations... of holy men killing woman and children.

I think any religious book with pathetic idiots who don't know how to read properly is dangerous. Here they wanted to pass a law to allow them to carry the sacrificial dagger in school... they wanted school children to walk around with a huge knife on their belt. The government said, no.

End of discussion. Make yourself at home is just an expression.

 

[Forkbender]

I think any religious book with pathetic idiots who don't know how to read properly is dangerous. Here they wanted to pass a law to allow them to carry the sacrificial dagger in school... they wanted school children to walk around with a huge knife on their belt. The government said, no.

End of discussion. Make yourself at home is just an expression.

Amen.

La illah illa Allah.

 

[GOD]

Amen .


If being a bigot and spreading hate and sick storys about islam isnt rasism why is doing the same about judeism raceism ?

 

[Forkbender]

Because of the holocaust.

There's a great (says I) book just out by Avraham Burg, a former Israeli politician, who analyses this problem:

Holocaust is over, we must rise from its ashes.

blurb:

Modern day Israel, and the Jewish community, is strongly influenced by the memory and horrors of Hitler and the Holocaust. Burg argues that the Jewish nation has been traumatized and has lost the ability to trust itself, its neighbors or the world around it. He shows that this is one of the causes for the growing nationalism and violence that are plaguing Israeli society and reverberating through Jewish communities worldwide. Burg uses his own family history--his parents were Holocaust survivors--to inform his innovative views on what the Jewish people need to do to move on and eventually live in peace with their Arab neighbors and feel comfortable in world at large. Thought-provoking, compelling, and original, this book is bound to spark a heated debate around the world.

This ad has been brought to you by people for peace.

 

[magickmumu]

Some time ago i listend to an intervieuw with James Demeo on the Gnostic Media podcast.
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/

http://www.orgonelab.org/saharasia.htm

The interview was very interesting. One could even look at it as racist.
I didn't know what to make of it.

 

[Forkbender]

Normally I would have a listen for a few minutes to get an idea, but seeing as it is two four hour parts I think I'll just pretend I was interested.

 

[zezt]

"For both reasons, both the misery and the danger, we may tell people to take a more cricital look at their religion. All religions. There seems to be a heavy taboo on discussing Islam. One can write anything about Christianity and there will be no objections. I've been critical of Hinduism and there were no objections. But if I'm critical of Islam I'm "playing nazi games"?"

EXACTLY!! Yeah. Anyone know the UK artists Gilbert and George? Well they do art that has much Christian symbolism in, but also containing very 'blasphemous' material with it. Now if this art had been done say in the 60s, 50s, before it would have created great shock. If it had been done in Medieval times, G&G would have been tortured and burnt alive by the Inquisition.

I read a great crit about them that really put them in their place for all their so-called bravado. It said how safe was their 'shock' and how they wouldn't dare do same about Islam!

Because we know right? What happens? people have been killed on Amsterdam streets for speaking out against Islamic oppression.

I want you to watch this video....Now i want those here who are feeling very upset by this discussion to try and leave all that at the door when you watch this video please. Just allow yourself very open mind, and only AFTER 'come back' or whatever to analyse etcetc. Please give respect to this film. The director of it was murdered too, in Amsterdam

And by the way, I DO care also what oppression is going on in Islamic countries that use Shariah Law:

Submission

 

[Forkbender]

What happens? people have been killed on Amsterdam streets for speaking out against Islamic oppression.

I've seen the film already, so that justifies my quick reply.

Get your facts straight.

1 person was killed, Theo van Gogh.

He didn't speak out against Islamic oppression, he called muslims goatfuckers on multiple occassions, in interviews, on national television, etc.. He claimed that the right to insult was basic.

This movie was written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who was threatened (true) and when it turned out her passport wasn't in order because she had lied on her application form, she moved to Washington to work for a think tank for the Bush Administration.

It was very sad that Theo van Gogh was murdered and I don't justify this, but speaking out against oppression is not what he did. He didn't give a fuck about oppression and only wanted to argue.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

We all care when people suffer, especially if it's family, and I think we all agree by now that once upon a time we were all black and all came from that place.

But what are you going to do about it ?

To me critisising it is only feeding the fire, and doing nothing is blowing on the fire.

My middle way is to not shave, and deny the comforts of mundane american life especially in what relates to marriage. This is my silent, non violent protest against both parties.

Islam - americans both funded by the same people, their extremists are both trained by the same people, and all the violence profits the same people.

Even a blind man would see that. No need to watch lenghty videos or even read the book.

 

[GOD]

Him and the dutch "politician" that was mentioned in several posts very negatively earlyer in this thread were friends .

 

[magickmumu]

I have found this (dutch) site with a lot of information on conspiracy's surrounding both the murder on Fortuyn and tho one one van gogh. Linking it all together with the joint strike fighter.

I don't know, but maybe there,s something else going on as well.


http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/js ... rtuyn.html