Danger of Islam!

[Brugmansia]

I never abused the good ones however, like speed, MDMA, LSD... I left those to small doses as they should be... but Amanita, Datura, Salvia... most people wouldn't ever attempt what I did. I was a bit crazy yes, but I was in love...

Talk about contradiction...

But what has it brought you? I find Salvia too odd to get a message out of. To me, it's an amazing full blown experience but it lacks clearity as well. I just feel connected with an ancient culture. As walking with a torch through a cave while I'm living a life of thousands years ago. I love seeing what my appearance would have been if I was born thousands of years ago.

But I don't see the benefit in being completely lost and streched out in everything and nothing. It is also a state of being fucked up sometimes. Especially with datura and sometimes amanita.

It makes me wonder when people tend to believe that acid goes more insane as the dose is strongly increased.

As I said, 200 mics changes your world but drops you between the shore and ship. Hence your personal sixties story.

Triple that dose and you'll feel so clear that you have gotten life back with no inner stream of thoughts about the future or past. That's how nature itself has originally given it to humans. From where we started to invent something as a past or future by making our first movements.

As long you care about your house, your family, your life itself and everything in it you'll always remain with a certain loaded energy which holds you into bondage.

The highest level of a smoked DMT experience perfectly describes this model. The point that you don't exist anymore, and no longer carry any knowledge about what you had, who you were including your roots, is freedom.

LSD, shrooms and cacti do have this possibility as well, but you'll have to ingest sufficient material and give it all of yourself and and go with the thought that it'll be your last trip ever (it won't be though ) because life with start again from the very first construct.

Freedom = merely your own existing consciousness and nothing more. And at the same time it's detention because nothing else is present, not even the thought of being in your room. You'll realise that freedom and detention are the same when you have fully recovered. But the experience itself is being in the middle of the eye.

I just realised that everyone is God by having an awareness. But that awareness is not solitary present in this world and that's what shrinks the visibility of seeing it all of yourself.

The way you'll cope with life further is hardly accompanied by gravity once you've witnessed your personal beginning.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

As I told you before... I had that experience... to me it didn't show me more than a weak mushroom trip. I had actually had two massive doses one around 500 mcg, the other closer to 800... both times I would call it brain frying, total dissolution and dangerously close to oblivion. I was terribly afftected but I needed to remain lucid because one of my friends had totally lost it (he was repeating the same word over and over for hours) ... the only time he "woke up" during the trip is when we went outside to excape his looping word (he said excellent like mr burns to anything we told him, and sometimes even cutting our discussions, making us loop). We lighted a cigarette to peace out and he opened the door very quietly, stuck his head through and said very lucidly : Hey guys would you try not to make too much noise we wouldn't want to attract the attention of the neighbors. We looked at him like, duh, you can talk ?

When I do salvia, amanita, shrooms or datura I feel a presence that brings me somewhere, and it teaches me everytime. There is none of that on LSD, it's sterile and effiscient, yes... but not what makes me learn.

My freedom is a freedom to imagine, and I have a place thats unlikely to crumble to realise it, the internet ! Thats why when I see zezt threats I'm like... ok dude, whatever.

I don't want anything zezt, stop it with the trick questions , will you ? You're uncovered now, everyone knows what you're here for.

That dosen't mean we don't like you however, you want to talk about it ? I think people like you make islam dangerous, because if we beleive what you say is true, we will manifest it, like anything else.

You are not on any other static board, this one is blessed by my presence and the roots of community will flower one way or another. So read up before you end up ridiculing yourself.

 

[JJJ]

would you be 'ashamed' if it was titled 'danger of zionism/globalism/christian fundamentalism/neo nazism...?

'Danger of Islam' is not an equivalent to 'danger of Christian fundamentlism'. Because then it should be 'danger of Islamic fundamentalism'. And then I would agree with you, because fundamentalism is always dangerous, to people and to societies.

There is no evidence that Islam itself is dangerous. Islamic countries have always been very open and friendly to foreigners, just read about people that have been travellig in Morocco, or even in Aghanistan and Iran. Islamic people there are not half-humans that believe that they have to kill every non-muslim, like you portrait them.They're friendly people like you and me, yet they are Muslims; there is no problem with being Muslim in itself at all! As a westerner, in many villages in Islamic countries it is likely you get invited for tea at almost every house you walk past. And the problems that do exist in (some!) Muslim countries are not Muslim problems, but normal human problems that have happened in Christian, Jewish and secular contexts as well. It's all like Muslims have a patent on the suppression of women, on violence, intolerance etc, which is a ridiculous idea, a true myth! Yet the public opinion here in The Netherlands is moving more and more towards that. Actually, while having been one of the largest religions for a long time, the historical share of Muslim people in fascism, genocide, suppression of people, imperialism etc. is extremely low compared to other groups. Looking at history, for example Christians are fifty times more scary man!

As an example, from Wikitravel Iran:

In general Iran is much safer than many from the West might believe. Most people are genuinely friendly and interested to know about you and your country, so leave aside your preconceptions and come with an open mind. Iran is still a relatively low-crime country, although thefts and muggings have been on the increase in recent years. Keep your wits about you, and take the usual precautions against pickpockets in crowded bazaars and buses.

In particular, the tourist center of Isfahan has had problems with muggings of foreigners in unlicensed taxis, and fake police making random checks of tourists' passports. Only use official taxis, and never allow 'officials' to make impromptu searches of your belongings.
(...)
Women travellers should not encounter any major problems when visiting Iran, but will undoubtedly be the subject of at least some unwanted attention. Perceptions of Western women among local men, fuelled largely by satellite television and Baywatch reruns, have led to the assumption that all foreign women like to dress and act like Pamela Anderson. A stern look should be enough to deter amorous locals. Contrary to popular belief Iranian women differ little to those in the West, unless they follow extreme religious family lifestyles. In Tehran western clothing and formality is accepted but becomes more strict in rural areas.
(...)
Ignore the media hype, your chances of facing anti-Western sentiment as a traveller are slim. Even hardline Iranians make a clear distinction between the Western governments they distrust and individual travelers who visit their country. Americans may receive the odd jibe about their government's policies, but usually nothing more serious than that. However, it is always best to err on the side of caution and avoid politically-oriented conversations, particularly in taxi cabs. In addition, a few Iranian-Americans have been detained recently and accused of espionage. These kind of incidents are rare, but still the broader implications are worth considering and bearing in mind.

Brrrrrrrr

 

[zezt]

What is the irony is that in your defense of Islam you demonize me 8)

I now am the one spreading hate, and fear, bla bla. It is weird. Here we are page..23? is it? and you like some others do not seem to have understood anything that has been explored here. It is like one step foreward and 20 steps back. I am glad i am not a teacher. I would go quite mad!!

JJJ, have a look again at one of the last links i have shown (and I have to big up meself here that it is I who have gone to the trouble of providing many links to argue my case. all many of you lot do is just curse and regurgitate your position. That you simply luuuurve Islam. it can do NO wrong!

OK, JJJ, LOOK! http://www.reformislam.org/

here we have people who are actually Islamic Muslims, who HAVE read the Qu'ran and been born and lived in Islamic culture, and know the Shariah Law, and let us look what they say ...shall we?...again

OUR GOALS

* to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed
* to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists)
* to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror


Now what part of that do you not understand, and how does it differ from what I and CM have been pointing out? Make some effort.

ps, oh yeah, and it is only myself who has taken the effort to ask other ex-muslims like from Islam-watch their opnion about this. Do you read their reply?............hmmmmmm aint holding my breath

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

wow this is pathetic... no comments.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What a lot of you folks here don't understand is that the flourishing of moderate Islam creates the infrastructure for traditional "fundamentalist" Islam to gain influence.

I would like to hear from you why you think it's better if a child is tought (by his parents and teachers) that he is a servant of God within a system of fixed rules and regulations, rather than learning about the physics of creation within a flexible system of laws that assure the equality and safety of all human beings. Why do you think it's better for a child to be told about God and his scripture than to be told about life and love and laughter?

 

[Forkbender]

^you are abstracting from reality:

the physics of creation within a flexible system of laws that assure the equality and safety of all human beings

I would like to know what you had in mind here.

What a lot of you folks here don't understand is that the flourishing of moderate Islam creates the infrastructure for traditional "fundamentalist" Islam to gain influence.

Please explain.

 

[JJJ]

OUR GOALS
* to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed
* to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists)
* to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror

Now what part of that do you not understand, and how does it differ from what I and CM have been pointing out? Make some effort.

I understand all of it, and there is nothing wrong with the goals in the above! But still, this quote disagrees with another quote you posted, some pages earlier:
[quote:3qns0haq]Also, are very similar the ideas of Nazism and Islam that all the world must share their ideology- or die. The Nazis believed that other people are inferior, and so the Aries have the right to conquer them, exterminate them or convert them into slaves. The Muslims believe that all the Non-Muslims are “kaffirs

 

[restin]

Sharia Law is just the law for the muslem how to live,zezt....

 

[HeartCore]

[quote:11yymrs7] It is thus “the height of illiberalism

 

[JJJ]

I would like to hear from you why you think it's better if a child is tought (by his parents and teachers) that he is a servant of God within a system of fixed rules and regulations, rather than learning about the physics of creation within a flexible system of laws that assure the equality and safety of all human beings.

Of course I think it's better when children are raised with non-religious ideas. But I also think that we have nothing to do with how children of other people are raised, except if they're abused or taught criminal ideas and such. If you do think that we should regulate that children are not raised religiously, then we should ban religion. And that would be crazy, of course.

And it's all relative. You could also ask: 'do you think it's good if a child is tought that the most desirable things in the world are money, career, status, wearing clothes from well-known brands and owning a large house and an expensive car?' I would even say that that question touches a much weaker spot in our society.

 

[restin]

I would like to hear from you why you think it's better if a child is tought (by his parents and teachers) that he is a servant of God within a system of fixed rules and regulations, rather than learning about the physics of creation within a flexible system of laws that assure the equality and safety of all human beings.

Yes, I would rather that a child would be raised with real values, culture, ethics and hope than vice versa. The western world has lost too many values...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I would like to know what you had in mind here.

The physics of creation: everything we now know about black holes, galaxies, stars, planets, cellular life, DNA, atoms, subatomic particles, quarks, Phi, the Golden Mean, fractals, the platonic solids, singularity etc.
A flexible system of laws that assure the equality and safety of all human beings: for example the US Constitution, the Universal Constitution of Human Rights, etc. Flexible in the sense that we're not bound by the words of a certain individual, either prophet or God Himself.

 

[Forkbender]

It says nowhere in the Qu'ran that we are bound by the word of God, in fact that is a VERY judeo-christian interpretation of the Qu'ran. In fact, it says that everybody is free to believe whatever he/she wants (although some people may be wrong in their beliefs) and that nobody should interfere with other people's choices. This doesn't mean there are no muslims who try to do that anyway, but still. (I might be a bit prejudiced, right now, as I just read the first 20 pages of the ebook you provided a few pages back, please correct me if I'm wrong).

The equality and safety of all human beings has never been a fact in recorded history, not before, during or after religion. They may be equal for the law, but in everyday society this is not the case as long as there is prejudice and ignorance.

I agree that flexibility is important.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

If moderate Islam is no threat in itself, then it isn't.

Moderate Islam is a modernized form of Islam. Like sufism it should get a name of its own, or always be referred to with those two words. Islam itself has historically been about submission. If a moderate Islam incorporates all modern values of equality and freedom, then indeed it doesn't pose a threat. If it spreads its message of a reformed Islam throughout the world, it will be of great benefit.

But I also think that we have nothing to do with how children of other people are raised, except if they're abused or taught criminal ideas and such.

It's debatable whether religious education (Christian/Islamic/Jewish) should be permitted for human beings under the age of 18, or 21. For the protection of the next generation I think all schools should be secular, no exceptions. Also no more government funding for religious institutions.

If you do think that we should regulate that children are not raised religiously, then we should ban religion. And that would be crazy, of course.

We should protect people from religion, that's all. No need to ban it altogether. If you ask me, religious education is mental abuse. Children should be protected from it.

 

[magickmumu]

Child abuse is a relative term.

I for example think circumcision is child abuse.
But a lot of people do it and it's legal.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What a lot of you folks here don't understand is that the flourishing of moderate Islam creates the infrastructure for traditional "fundamentalist" Islam to gain influence.

Please explain.

It's because of the popularity of the religion that certain hard-liners can draw upon a large audience to expand their influence. For example, Christianity in the USA isn't all bad, but it is a fertile ground for the likes of Jerry Falwell and worse. Without the 'moderate' muslims building the mosques, indoctrinating the children and expanding the congregation, the scholarly imams (those leaning towards 'traditional Islam') from overseas would have no audience here and in the UK.

The following text from the Islam Watch website, referred to a couple of times, doesn't prove anything, but it is something we might want to consider. Notice they humbly call it a theory.


1. A theory of the Islamization process in European countries

1.1. Background

The Islamic takeover of a country or a region of the country – is dependant on the relative proportion of Muslims compared with non-Muslims, and/or the influence of militant Muslims among the Muslim population. A higher proportion of Muslims among the population - or the growth of the number of militants among Muslims (even though Muslims constitute a smaller part of the population) – drive the political development along a certain path. A successful assimilation process may change that path but there seems to be no definite examples yet of such a process.

We need theories that describe (later also explain) the political development in a country with a growing Muslim minority (or a growing militancy among the Muslim population) and which country doesn't carry out a strategy to oppose Islamization. A preliminary version of a theory (concentrating on parts of the conflict between political (traditional) Islam and domestic non-Muslim forces) is presented below. On the basis of that description of the political process, we then formulate (sect. 2) the structure of a prescriptive theory (a policy model) that can cause this process to be stopped and therefore avoided. In sect. 4.1-12, this model is then filled with contents, and an integrated policy helping to preserve the traditional rights in a European country is described in all its parts and details.

It is our hope that those detailed policy proposals regarding different areas of life in the society will be thoroughly discussed by all interested bloggers at this forum. Perhaps a majority view may form about the specific contents of the various individual policies (each regarding a different area). The results will later serve as parts of a comprehensive policy that can serve as an example for many political parties in Europe which - during the coming decades - will find it necessary to formulate their policies regarding how to preserve a free society.

By showing an extensive and detailed policy proposal, it may be possible to influence the structure of that discussion and set the basic parameters for the debate in hundreds of political parties, or organizations, in Europe.


1.2. The process and its phases

The basic development process seems to follow a pattern where eight phases can be discerned. These phases are described below, but just briefly. Later a more extensive description of them will be given. An underlying assumption is that a growing Muslim minority allows radical Islamists to influence a growing part of the population in the country. The contents of the traditional Islamic doctrine which is recognized by all four schools of Islam to be the valid one (various interpretations differ - of course - between them), seems to support the interpretations of the radical Islamists regarding many matters. That is probably a main reason for the passivity and silence of the so called "moderate" Muslims who don't have a comprehensive theoretical doctrine to lean upon. Another reason may be that many, or most, "moderates" share the same goals as the radical Islamists but just oppose some of their methods. Fear of reprisals can also be a cause of their passivity. The radicals also have strong international support, including the financial support.

On the basis of our empirical knowledge about the political development in Muslim countries, the attitudes regarding many matters of Muslims in Europe and other pieces of information e g their reactions during the first five years of the war on terror, a good prognosis can be made. During the coming decades, numerous examples from Europe will illuminate the different phases and their contents.

The eight phases are described here.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Child abuse is a relative term.

I for example think circumcision is child abuse.
But a lot of people do it and it's legal.

I'm talking about anything that damages the development of self-esteem, anything that shames the individual (mentally, physically, sexually), anything that blocks creativity and aliveness.

 

[Brugmansia]

I'm talking about anything that damages the development of self-esteem, anything that shames the individual (mentally, physically, sexually), anything that blocks creativity and aliveness.

Our society did that as well to me. Untill I choosed myself.

Anything non-objective influence, indoctrinates the mind simply because we believe what we see when we grow up, and adjust ourselve to it.

I never choosed to be part of a society in where you go to school, being pushed under the pressure of competition in order to obtain what everyone calls possibilities for leading a prosperous life.

It has struck me that actual knowledge of body and mind is about to vanish due to modern self-development. Which is nothing more than exchanging your own sincerity and susceptibility for energy in order to project and receive acknowlegement.

Any system is just equally to the next. This entire thread is based on the latest track of Judaism and Christanity, some tend to believe that Islam does not adjust to our autonomous humane system. Which is nothing more than modernized Judaism and Christanity. But it's not recognised as that amoung many of us because we sense it as autonomous.

Actual self development according nature itself is nothing more than deep refined sensations of feelings, love, sex, and visual observation. And once this is tasted, harvesting ourselve will become a secundair priority. In order to extend our physical existance. But the system has turned it inside out.

Almost no one has an idea how awkward the possibilities of nature development are. Because they are born with a numbed sensory. It's more a belief that they love and have sex than experiencing the actual physical sensation in it's fullest potential.

As a result, there's competition to make up what has been lost, and that's exactly why this thread has gotten itself 24 pages.

 

[st.bot.32]

We should protect people from religion, that's all. No need to ban it altogether. If you ask me, religious education is mental abuse. Children should be protected from it.

I have no love for any dogmatic belief system. But quite frankly, I don't think anyone can honestly say what children should be protected from. Lots of people have beliefs I would call religious, even though to them it is their reality, where do you draw the line?

We need religion to exist, which is why it does. Religion provides an organized outlet for irrational human belief and superstition. It passes on arts and tradition. Much creativity stems from the religious experience. Also most people are inherently followers. Take religion out of the equation and you are left with rabid nationalism and other evils that are far worse than just religion. Look at how in non-religious nations, people follow the dogma of their government as if it was a religion, without questioning it. I'd take a few mosques and churches any day over that.

Not only that but the religious experience is a powerful experience in how the human mind works. I know quite a few people who didn't have religious experiences until later in life, and, having no immunity or awareness of it's powerful effects, ended up in cults and dogmatic belief systems.