Danger of Islam!

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yeah... I been very patient in reading this crap...

It makes no sense at all, I admire your patience as well friends for letting that happen. I find it more than appaling that my presence here has created a bigger outroar and that you're pitying this guy because he's gay and had a bad childhood.

He found his new victim, and he's a victim and they're the victim... many layers of obnoxiousness while the "agents" are out there and pulling on the puppets strings. We know they are and we all stand up to it merely by being here ; and you barge in and tell us were stupid ?

Well Mr.Zezt... I'll be waiting ; if I see that history judges you as a great man who even lay down ONE of those "barriers" I will take back my words.

But in the meantime you'll be the first pathetic troll I see on these boards... I was kinda puzzled there hadn't been one yet.

Standing up... we already do stand up sir.

I don't shave in protest, everywhere i go people call me jew, black slave, muslim, but honestly I don't look much like any of them ; its just the beard it frustrates so many people you'd be afraid to wear one. My own friends can drink until they're not conscious anymore and not offer me ONE beer, even if they know they owe me all my money, I got two or three friends left that don't owe me money out of dozens ; we're in an econimic recession yet they party twice as hard, yet they can't give me 5 bucks so I can put gaz in my car so I can join them.

Do you SEE ? I'm not a freakin victim.

Do you shave or trim ? Do you live a happy gay life ? I didn't ask to read about that, now that we're intimate, do you think I will let you walk around joyfully spreading such blatant hate ? You will see some guardians tonight friend, this has gone far enough. No they're not physical, no they wont harm you, they'll just make sure you get what you really deserve, out of human bias, all in good time.

Freakin childish games, I'm tired of people not taking responsibility.

 

[misfit]

The ban was in whole Holland.

"Because at least in our freeER culture I have some human rights to be."

Well said.
My opinion is that you should focus more on what you can do in your culture to become more free. To make a better life for you and for people like you.


Just look at USA and their record, and you will understand what I said about oppression in name of biblical scriptures (does not mean based on)

 

[st.bot.32]

God, Forkbender +1

Wow. I'd been away for a while, and actually read through this whole thread.. all I can say. Wow. Kinda speechless, actually. Also, Ahuaeynjxs, whatever things I might have said a few weeks back, I apologize (but thats another thread).

Canada definitely is having similar problems lately, everyone is forgetting that they are immigrants themselves, and blaming all the new immigrants for their problems, the xenophobia that immigrants are taking over is at an all-time high..

Don't know what the solution is, sadly. I don't think any religion or cultural practice should be exempt from criticism, but it is too easy to prejudge millions of individual people based on the actions of others, paint everyone with the same brush... then it becomes racism and hatred. And, people who go over a certain threshold and start spreading hate often seek out and only see that which reinforces their fear/hatred.

I quite frankly, have almost deleted this post, as I'm ashamed to have a post in a thread about "Danger of Islam!" Thare are far more intelligent and kinder ways to go about opening such a dialog.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Perhaps an interesting e-book: Islam, Peace and Tolerance

 

[Forkbender]

Looks interesting, CM, thanks for the link.

 

[Rymmen]

I beleive in nothing.

What you see is the nature of karma at play ; here is a people that robbed the less advanced cultures for ages, cast spells on them, and now they're trying to deflect that karma upon the people that choose to innocently inhabit the region.

Cracks in the earth open up the matrix, strict ethical code is necessary to remain true to ones origins.

Blue goes north, red goes south, white remains and pillages remains of an illusory empire.

All round and round.

When you will understand how history was manipulated, you will understand why this whole region is a holographic family, not a physical location.

Are you there ? Did you ever feel the wrath of one of their woman ? They're hardly repressed, even if they look like it on the surface. But I don't expect you to understand.

Currently living in Turkey, probably the most liberal muslim country. Here, people will murder their daughters if they are raped or otherwise taint their family's honor. Not everyone, of course. But enough for it to be disturbingly common.

 

[zezt]

So after that your main point is that although it is good to challenge the ones who carry out these violent acts, that the actual Qu'ran is not involved? And doing so will create divisiness because it is such a large part of peoples lives?

Nononono. That's not what I mean. I mean that eventhough the Qu'ran is involved, we don't need to attack it. What about the RAF for example? Do we need to attack Das Kapital by Karl Marx just because some people take revolution into their own hands? We should rather challenge people that think that the Qu'ran justifies violence and I think we can get a lot of support for that in the muslim world.

But it DOES justify violence. THATS the point. And probably best people to learn from about this are EX-Muslims who have studied it etc. Some people have criticized the start of this thread cause i showed a video. Well it was essential viewing about all this.
Sounds patronizing to me to calim someone only thinks it does

 

[zezt]

God, Forkbender +1

Wow. I'd been away for a while, and actually read through this whole thread.. all I can say. Wow. Kinda speechless, actually. Also, Ahuaeynjxs, whatever things I might have said a few weeks back, I apologize (but thats another thread).

Canada definitely is having similar problems lately, everyone is forgetting that they are immigrants themselves, and blaming all the new immigrants for their problems, the xenophobia that immigrants are taking over is at an all-time high..

Don't know what the solution is, sadly. I don't think any religion or cultural practice should be exempt from criticism, but it is too easy to prejudge millions of individual people based on the actions of others, paint everyone with the same brush... then it becomes racism and hatred. And, people who go over a certain threshold and start spreading hate often seek out and only see that which reinforces their fear/hatred.

I quite frankly, have almost deleted this post, as I'm ashamed to have a post in a thread about "Danger of Islam!" Thare are far more intelligent and kinder ways to go about opening such a dialog.

would you be 'ashamed' if it was titled 'danger of zionism/globalism/christian fundamentalism/neo nazism...?

 

[zezt]

I beleive in nothing.

What you see is the nature of karma at play ; here is a people that robbed the less advanced cultures for ages, cast spells on them, and now they're trying to deflect that karma upon the people that choose to innocently inhabit the region.

Cracks in the earth open up the matrix, strict ethical code is necessary to remain true to ones origins.

Blue goes north, red goes south, white remains and pillages remains of an illusory empire.

All round and round.

When you will understand how history was manipulated, you will understand why this whole region is a holographic family, not a physical location.

Are you there ? Did you ever feel the wrath of one of their woman ? They're hardly repressed, even if they look like it on the surface. But I don't expect you to understand.

Currently living in Turkey, probably the most liberal muslim country. Here, people will murder their daughters if they are raped or otherwise taint their family's honor. Not everyone, of course. But enough for it to be disturbingly common.

That doesn't sound very liberal ? What do you think?

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

I kinda told you what I think... when I hear those words come out, I know you're trying to slip me an agreement, it's not because an action seems liberal that I suscribe to the doctrine.

Wohoo that was hazy.

lib?er?al? ?/?l?b?r?l, ?l?br?l/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Do YOU want to continue this dance ? I'm glad to know we're dancing after all.

Namase !

 

[Brugmansia]

Fancy a fuck with me Ahua? 8)

I'm not gay. But it's about time we men do show in public some practise to dissolute boundries since mind struggling with proper formulation hasn't proved itself capable in delivering the individual settlement which we are looking for as human beings.

 

[zezt]

I kinda told you what I think... when I hear those words come out, I know you're trying to slip me an agreement, it's not because an action seems liberal that I suscribe to the doctrine.

Wohoo that was hazy.

lib?er?al? ?/?l?b?r?l, ?l?br?l/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Do YOU want to continue this dance ? I'm glad to know we're dancing after all.

Namase !

I was asking Rymmen.

 

[zezt]

Perhaps an interesting e-book: Islam, Peace and Tolerance

I sent this pdf to Islam-Watch to see what they thought, and have received this reply:

"It is difficult comment on a book in an email.

However, let me emphasize that we have pledge to "tell the truth about Islam" in our Website. Hence, if that book is right, we are wrong and we should close this site.

Let me draw attention to the chapter on Freedom of Religion/Apostasy. I am listing a few articles from our site on the topic:

Shaming the Shameless Apologists of Islam (I): Apostasy in Islam http://islam-watch.org/Ibrahim.Lone/Sha ... -Islam.htm

Apostasy in Islam and the case of Afghan Christian Convert http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/AfghanApostate.htm

Lucky Abdullah, Prophet's Apostate Secretary http://www.islam-watch.org/Kammuna/Luck ... retary.htm

Apostasy in Islam http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/AfghanApostate.htm

Read these few articles from our site and compare them with the chapter in the book. The picture will become clear.

You can search our site for articles related to other topics listed in the book. Need any help? Let us know."

MA Khan

 

[Pariah]

"Perhaps an interesting e-book: Islam, Peace and Tolerance"

Thanks caduceus, I've been reading it, and it seems a very good interpretation of the Quran, and representative of the ideals that *I've* seen put into practice by muslims in britain at least.

What are other peoples personal thoughts (opinions) on it?

 

[azze]

every religion has the potential to be misused by certain people, because every religion claims to be the will of a higher power that one cannot argue with. islam in itself is not dangerous but preachers can use it to mislead people. religions only work because people are to scared to question belief. the way the west behaves towards islamic countries will not make muslims more open-minded but will prove the people right who say that the west is inherently evil. you cannot change peoples mind by using violence and hate. both the islamic world and the christian world are in a vicous circle, the only way forward is to break this circle and the way forward is love and not hate.

 

[Forkbender]

But it DOES justify violence.

I guess that is debatable seeing the ebook CM posted. Most muslims I have met, both in Holland and in the Middle East/Asia read the Qu'ran as a book that inspires people to be peaceful (like in that Ebook). If you look at isolated quotes it can appear harmful. I don't think, however, that it is harmful without a doubt or that it is peaceful without a doubt. It depends on what the reader takes out of it.

 

[Pariah]

"every religion has the potential to be misused by certain people."

Certainly the most enlightened first post I can remember reading in a long time, welcome azze.

 

[zezt]

But it DOES justify violence.

I guess that is debatable seeing the ebook CM posted. Most muslims I have met, both in Holland and in the Middle East/Asia read the Qu'ran as a book that inspires people to be peaceful (like in that Ebook). If you look at isolated quotes it can appear harmful. I don't think, however, that it is harmful without a doubt or that it is peaceful without a doubt. It depends on what the reader takes out of it.

I understand your position but feel you are concluding to quick, Maybe because that feels right, and non-devisive.

However, I am trying to learn from ex-muslims. Reason why i sent off the file to two sources. I sense there could be denial from moderates and thats why thers no real radical change

 

[Forkbender]

What have I concluded too quick about? I don't feel I have concluded anything.

Learning from ex-muslims might be a bit biased. Have you considered talking to Westerners that converted to Islam?

denial from moderates

Perhaps precisely because of the reason I suggested? I.e. they read the Qu'ran as an inspiration to live a peaceful life not as a justification for violence.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I guess that is debatable seeing the ebook CM posted.

That ebook doesn't prove anything, nor does it necessarily represent the view of a large group. It was written by a certain author, a scholar, who interpreted the Quran in a certain way. I didn't post that link here to make a point.

It would be great if Islam just lost popularity overnight, but that's not realistic. It's here to stay for decades, perhaps even centuries. So if reformers like the author of that book want to help current muslims interpret the Quran in a modern way, I can only encourage it. That book was not written for you and me, but for people who currently condsider themselves to be muslims. I think it's alright to encourage scholars backing up 'moderate Islam', even if (or especially because!) it is a deviation from traditional Islam.