Danger of Islam!

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Very profound posts Bru and St-bot... Thanks for some refreshing waters.

Child circumcision is considered an act of utmost harm in the holographic consensus, most of the pleasurable nerves of the penis are located in the foreskin.

This harms all the sides of a childs life and is related to "robbing the RING" from the child at a very young age. Which is another distortion of religion. What has been useful or cool in an age might be ghey and harmful in another age.

There is people so unhappy with themselves that they are trying to grow back their foreskin with methods that are more crazy one than another ; as long as you have not seen this darker side of the human psyche in many forms ; there is no way you will understand what I said about islam.

Don't say I haven't warned you !

 

[restin]

circumcision is nonetheless not only done for religious reasons...

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yeah, well that comes back to what has been said, even doctors are subject to a kind of endoctrinated religion.

They see a bad case of trush that they can't fix because they can't tell their patient to get on natural supplements ; oh just get it cut off.

Thats bullshit ; I purposefully know cures for so many things they have no clue about... oh yes sometimes their things work good, but sometimes they're totally out of it, hypnosed...

Your penis don't work, heres a drug to fix it ; no I don't want to know what you eat or how often you masturbate, that has nothing to do with it.

We all know this is total bullshit.

I have myself healed from conditions much worse than that, skin cancers and whatnot. It's not a matter of miracle cures ever, it's a matter of taking back your life into your own hands.

Yenillor morne
tulinte i quettar
Tercano Nuruva.

Hlasta! Quetis
Ilfirimain

'Out of the Black Years
come the words
[the] Herald of Death.

Listen! It speaks
to those who were not born to die...'

 

[restin]

hmmm not everything can be cured with supplements...

 

[magickmumu]

That's not the point
Most of these Childeren don't need circumcision for medical reason.

 

[restin]

define "need" please

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

I'd guess he means there are alternatives ?

That would seem logical... there ARE alternatives.

And pretty much anything can be cured with the right foods and supplements, perhaps the only exeption is deep tooth infection and cancer, which can be conquered with the right environement and means to do so.

Cannabis oil will cure trush in a few days... I talked about it earlier, and noone seemed to have much noticed it. Of course you need to get it out of your body too, thats a little bit trickier... but the symptoms are quick taken care off with soaking in cannabis oil. (you MUST apply it many times a day, like 10 times you want the cannabis oil to soak your skin, the trush will just crust and fall out shrivelled) It will also kill any form of parasites including lice and scabies and whatnot.

Mix that up with some cinnamon oils, myrrh and sweet basil, and you got yourself a holy annointing oil that will make your skin clean and free from bacteria too.

Fresh cannabis soaked in olive oil...strain and apply many times a day.

I will cure ANY skin problem, even cancerous moles... it might not get the cancer out of your body, just like for herpes since it hides in your spinal disks ; but at least it will cure the symptoms.

Since I've been here I cannot even count the number of times we forgot about cannabis.

To Zezt :

'Come on, Sam!' said Merry. 'There's more stored in your head than you let on about.'
'I don't know about that,' said Sam. 'But how would this suit? It ain't what I call proper poetry, if you understand me: just a bit of nonsense. But these old images here brought it to my mind.' Standing up, with his hands behind his back, as if he was at school, he began to sing to an old tune.

Troll sat alone on his seat of stone,
And munched and mumbled a bare old bone;
For many a year he had gnawed it near,
For meat was hard to come by.
Done by! Gum by!

In a cave in the hills he dwelt alone,
And meat was hard to come by.
Up came Tom with his big boots on.
Said he to Troll: 'Pray, what is yon?
For it looks like the shin o' my nuncle Tim,
As should be a-lyin' in graveyard.
Caveyard! Paveyard!

This many a year has Tim been gone,
And I thought he were lyin' in graveyard.'
'My lad,' said Troll, 'this bone I stole.
But what be bones that lie in a hole?
Thy nuncle was dead as a lump o' lead,
Afore I found his shinbone.
Tinbone! Thinbone!

He can spare a share for a poor old troll,
For he don't need his shinbone.'
Said Tom: 'I don't see why the likes o' thee
Without axin' leave should go makin' free
With the shank or the shin o' my father's kin;
So hand the old bone over!
Rover! Trover!

Though dead he be, it belongs to he;
So hand the old bone over!'
'For a couple o' pins,' says Troll, and grins,
'I'll eat thee too, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meat will go down sweet!
I'll try my teeth on thee now.
Hee now! See now!

I'm tired o' gnawing old bones and skins;
I've a mind to dine on thee now.'
But just as he thought his dinner was caught,
He found his hands had hold of naught.
Before he could mind, Tom slipped behind
And gave him the boot to larn him.
Warn him! Darn him!

A bump o' the boot on the seat, Tom thought,
Would be the way to larn him.
But harder than stone is the flesh and bone
Of a troll that sits in the hills alone.
As well set your boot to the mountain's root,
For the seat of a troll don't feel it.
Peel it! Heal it!

Old Troll laughed, when he heard Tom groan,
And he knew his toes could feel it.
Tom's leg is game, since home he came,
And his bootless foot is lasting lame;
But Troll don't care, and he's still there
With the bone he boned from its owner.
Doner! Boner!

Troll's old seat is still the same,
And the bone he boned from its owner!

‘Where did you come by that, Sam?' asked Pippin. 'I've never heard those words before.'
Sam muttered something inaudible. 'It's out of his own head, of course,' said Frodo. 'I am learning a lot about Sam Gamgee on this journey. First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard - or a warrior!'
'I hope not,' said Sam. 'I don't want to be neither!'

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Lots of people have beliefs I would call religious, even though to them it is their reality, where do you draw the line?

It's very easy: schools should (as much as possible) teach things that can be verified. They can teach about religion, but within the context of History. No child should recite mandatory prayers, bow down to an image or direction, or read from scripture on a daily basis. The differences between religious and secular schools are pretty clear.

We need religion to exist, which is why it does. Religion provides an organized outlet for irrational human belief and superstition.

Up until recently perhaps, but this is the 21th century. Irrational human beliefs and superstitions should be dispelled, not encouraged or funded.

It passes on arts and tradition. Much creativity stems from the religious experience.

Heh, this is silly. Remember the sixties? Any Islamic or Christians equivalents of the Beatles, Pink Floyd or Shpongle?

Also most people are inherently followers. Take religion out of the equation and you are left with rabid nationalism and other evils that are far worse than just religion.

That's bullshit. Especially in this day and age.

Not only that but the religious experience is a powerful experience in how the human mind works.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!!! Please!!! Monotheistic religions do NOT give access to powerful experiences anymore. Entheogenic initiation does that.

 

[magickmumu]

define "need" please

Do you think they need it? Do you need it ?
And if so what do you have against foreskin ?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Our society did that as well to me. Untill I choosed myself..

Our society turned you into Brugmansia.

But I'm definitely seeing forms of child abuse in modern Western society, some of it stemming from pedagogical beliefs from the 19th century (which did play a part in WW 1 & 2). However, we do have lots of TV programs now and books and workshop pointing out how we should communicate with children, and respect their developmental needs, so that they develop healthy self-esteem.

Any system is just equally to the next.

Can you expound on that, because the way you put it, it doesn't make sense to me.

Almost no one has an idea how awkward the possibilities of nature development are. Because they are born with a numbed sensory. It's more a belief that they love and have sex than experiencing the actual physical sensation in it's fullest potential.

Is this still on topic? I can't tell.

 

[restin]

And if so what do you have against foreskin ?

nothing, I just wanted you to extend your point :wink:

And pretty much anything can be cured with the right foods and supplements, perhaps the only exeption is deep tooth infection and cancer, which can be conquered with the right environement and means to do so.

How would you cure angina?

 

[st.bot.32]

It's very easy: schools should (as much as possible) teach things that can be verified. They can teach about religion, but within the context of History. No child should recite mandatory prayers, bow down to an image or direction, or read from scripture on a daily basis.

Agreed, I also think that religious schools shouldn't get public funding.

Up until recently perhaps, but this is the 21th century. Irrational human beliefs and superstitions should be dispelled, not encouraged or funded.

I agree... but as for swaying people, you just can't do that. people have to want to find out for themselves what is real and isn't. besides who decides what is irrational/superstitious? For example, are churches bad, but magick and new age practices are OK? It is easy to dis the religious experiences other people have while propping up your own. That's what the entire history of humanity has been about. "I am right, my view is correct, everyone else is wrong"

Heh, this is silly. Remember the sixties? Any Islamic or Christians equivalents of the Beatles, Pink Floyd or Shpongle?

Well for starters the Beatles are pretty much a fusion of western harmony/note music (which developed entirely in the sacred music of the churches) incorporating religious tribal african music, and religious middle eastern music (raga, etc).

Of course their music is completely secular.. But I'm not even getting at that technicality. I'm not even talking about any organized religion in particular. The religious experience and creativity are just internally linked. That's why plenty of artists take entheogens or explore world religions and alternate belief systems.

That's bullshit. Especially in this day and age.

Nope. Nationalism is a religion, as far as I'm concerned. It has many of the same hallmarks. And what about a certain country with over a billion people who have to unquestioningly accept whatever a group of guys in a small room say is good or bad, true or false, moral or immoral, etc

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!!! Please!!! Monotheistic religions do NOT give access to powerful experiences anymore. Entheogenic initiation does that.

No offense, but how would you know? Have you ever been a true believer? Have you ever felt the presence of god? Seen god in everything around you? That is what the deeply devout and orthodox experience. You underestimate religion. Those who have never experienced it cannot understand. There's a reason why the devout are not easily swayed by secularism. Their beliefs, their world, are completely real to them.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Ahuaeynjxs, I don't know what to make out of your contributions in this thread.
You seem passionate about the issue, yet you provide no convincing argument.
Like the others, you keep coming up with distractions.

 

[st.bot.32]

I'm sure people who have mystical experiences in monotheistic religions might come to the exact same conclusion in reverse.

They're typically the first to claim mushroom experiences are "artificial"..

Having never tried it, of course

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

To me the thread is cut and soon will go through the door CM. Don't you see what zezt is doing, he knows NOW is critical and we will manifest whatever comes to pass.

The discussion about what isn't our business is a distraction, whats the word ; proletisizing ? This is a compound argument of infinite repercussions.

Dude pariah you're a genius... yes they should do that ! You should speak more often like this.

Restin ?

The English word angina (which comes intact in its written form from Latin) refers to a painful choking,[1] constriction or tightness somewhere in the body, and may refer to:

Angina pectoris, chest pain due to ischemia (a lack of blood and hence oxygen supply) of the heart muscle
Abdominal angina, postprandial abdominal pain that occurs in individuals with insufficient blood flow to meet visceral demands
Ludwig's angina, a serious, potentially life-threatening infection of the tissues of the floor of the mouth
Prinzmetal's angina, a syndrome typically consisting of cardiac chest pain at rest that occurs in cycles
Vincent's angina, trench mouth, infection of the gums leading to inflammation, bleeding, deep ulceration and necrotic gum tissue
Angina tonsillaris, an inflammation of the tonsils

Edit : I think the placenta should be cut off but a part of the unbelical cord should be left until it scars naturally, without attempting to make a knot out of it... how do they do this anyways ? I'm just saying cause I'm curious what kind of scar it would make...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

And who decides what is irrational/superstitious? For example, are churches bad, but magick and new age practices are OK?

No! I said secular education, not wiccan education! Children should not be forced to participate in any spiritual ritual, inclusing weird new age practices.

It is easy to dis the religious experiences other people have while propping up your own.

I'm talking from personal experience here. I was deeply religious for about 6 years of my life. I know the monotheistic mindset, having experienced it myself. I also tasted 'religious ecstasy' quite a bit. I know what I'm talking about, even if I wasn't a muslim.

Well for starters the Beatles are pretty much a fusion of...

Wasn't it obvious I was referring to the 1000s of psychedelic classics that were written in the decades after the Summer of Love? Religion stifles creativity. Yes, it may preserve certain motifs and styles, but at the same type discourages experimentation.

The religious experience and creativity are just internally linked. That's why plenty of artists take entheogens or explore world religions and alternate belief systems.

Please, in a thread about Islam and other monotheistic religions, do not write about the use of entheogens as a religious experience. It creates unnecessary confusion.

Nope. Nationalism is a religion, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, but it's bullshit that the disappearance of religion would lead to a rise of nationalism. Again, please keep in mind that the psychedelic experience tends to obliterate national identity. Most of us here are not nationalists. I love my country because it has liberal drug laws, but that is as far as my nationalism goes.

No offense, but how would you know? Have you ever been a true believer?

Yes, and in those days I also had deep respect for Jesus Christ and Mohammed, and their different followers. I've been religious all the way.

Have you ever felt the presence of god? Seen god in everything around you?

First on acid (most convincing), then within the system of monotheism (the post-Vedic Vaishnava religion), and then on shrooms etc. Also numerous times sober or stoned because in general I'm an ecstatic individual.

That is what the deeply devout and orthodox experience.

If they want to be devout, orthodox religionists, let them live in the woods or in a cave. I say you can experience just as much ecstasy living a modern life. And I mean a fully modern life, not the materialistic lifestyle that has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Of course we don't encourage that either. As revealed in a recent news item, materialism is linked with low self-esteem. Any truly modern lifestyle that encourages healthy self-esteem will lower materialism and create a natural, genuine spirituality free from nationalism or racism.

There's a reason why the devout are not easily swayed by secularism. Their beliefs, their world, are completely real to them.

I know. They recite and repeat their beliefs over and over and over again. It IS in-doctrine-ation, kept in place by the authority of the revealed scripture. And yes, religious songs are very much part of the indoctrination. And most of those songs suck big time.

I also remember the way I truly freed myself from the belief system (not just from the religious organization, like so many before me had done): it was by reading the truth about our holy books, as discussed by Indologists and other scholars. I realized they were right, and that much of post-Vedic religion was a farce. In fact all monotheism is a farce. It was a tough pill to swallow, and it took me months, but then I was liberated from the shackles of dogma. And what a relief it was!

 

[st.bot.32]

CM, I see where you're coming from, we agree on a lot of points. (Hopefully I didn't sound too belligerent in my last post.) I also came from a very devout fundamentalist background (but 20 years of my life, so deeply, deeply engrained).

Even years after I thought I had freed myself from it, it was buried deep into my psyche.. apocalyptic nightmares, etc. And psychedelics very much helped to free me from the last tentacles of that religion (along with good friends, and of course.. time) In any case, I just can't neglect the power of religious experience.

Yes, repetition, dogma. (Mantra? ) Un-indoctrinating myself will be a life-long process. I could have learned to hate but I chose not to.

I think if one makes religion the enemy, it becomes the enemy. I would hope that we would learn tolerance. And if we as psychonauts are reasonable, hopefully, eventually, reason will win the day. If we make religion to be the enemy, the religious have all the more reason to react defensively and with fear. There are billions of monotheists, freeing ourselves from monotheism will have to be a very gradual practice, if, ever. We need to tread lightly.

Anyway, the problem I have with this thread when I think about it is that the entire problem with Islam has happened because of continued Western interference in their culture. Radical Islam is a reaction to such secular greed and religious interference, Cold War paranoia and American meddling. It's very much a good part "our" fault that those opportunists came into power in the first place. Look at how liberal certain middle eastern countries were becoming before the recent wars in the middle east. But it's so easy to turn around and blame all of Islam along with the neocon opportunists. Urgh.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

We're not blaming Islam, nor Mohammed, nor any religion in particular. The mess we're in was nobody's fault in particular, some things are just unavoidable, with the Ice Ages and aliens (?) messing things up and all. But we have to be realistic about the present. We shouldn't make religion, or any religion in particular, our enemy, but like I said we can try to reduce their negative impact on modern society and the next generation. Encouraging moderate forms of Christianity and Islam is one way to go, helping people disentangle themselves from these belief systems altogether is another.

Even years after I thought I had freed myself from it, it was buried deep into my psyche..

Yes, I know what you mean. The entire process also took me several years.

 

[zezt]

This video has just been released, Shame on You Britain

It is about how Geert Wilders wanted to show Fitna in the House of Lords, but an Islamic lord, or whatever, threatened to gather many protesting Muslims, and surround the House to bar Wilders.....Then there was moves to show it, but latest news is Wilders has been banned from going to UK

Now, I am well aware you'll do not like Wilders. But do you think this is a wise move by British pariliament?
Anyway see video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pauMQUna ... bscription

Give reasons yay or nay in detail. Try and keep flaming to a munimum, and if POSSIBLE none at all

 

[Forkbender]

I think they should let him in, so they can witness the utter idiocy of his statements and move on.