The holocaust

[Caduceus Mercurius]

So Caduceus you read a book . Wow ! And now you use it to justify the genocide on the palastinians ?

Uhhh, please proove I used the contents of a book to justify genocide?

thats the point where we either do something or ...... use Caduceuses excuse and shit out .

You're turning things around. First of all, it wasn't an excuse but an explanation for why most people are not fulltime activists for the Palestinian cause. And that indeed for most it's wiser to focus on the people one can make happy, like one's family and friends, rather than to go on a quest that will likely have little effect (I mean, I speak neither Israeli nor Palestinian...), and abandoning one's own children and family in the process. So no, we're not both right. I am right, and you are wrong. Very often you are right, but here you are clearly wrong. I hope 'GOD' can handle that.

We are talking about justice and not just us . The whole world has developed legal and arbitratory systems . We try criminals . Why should we look away this time ? Why should they be treated differently than other people . When it comes to crime do we shit out and look / run away ? So lets abolish laws and the whole legal system ?

In practice laws and legal systems are not above religion, and since religion is a major player in this conflict, you're not going to get very far with the legal approach.

You know GOD, I think you are a coward for posing a set of questions without giving your own answers first, but rather finding fault with whomever dares to answer your questions. You're a bully once again, and I think it's lame. I'm not having a bad day, at all. You're clearly an intelligent man. But when will you ever do something constructive with your brain?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"How can we dance when our earth is turning
How do we sleep while our beds are burning"

The people who wrote that were concerned about the aborigines, not the plight of the Palestinians. Moreover, the members of this forum do more than just dancing and sleeping.

 

[GOD]

JFC . Look at all this hostility and denial . Your all frying in your own fat .


"What kind of system do you propose? And is it possible to have a system that teaches freedom? Isn't there some form of contradiction in there? "

A system that is as fair and honest as possible . Yes . No .

"Or do I misunderstand you again?"

Yes . You talk about "Instilling fear or punishing them obviously won't work" . Thats what law is !!!!! Thats how laws work . A promise of fair arbitration , justice and punishment for "wrong" doing . Society setting limits to behaviour .


"Stopping the war requires a strong party that can try both sides equally, it must be unbiased."

Yup . Get rid of bias and most of the problems will solve themselves .

Fork , i think i answered the rest of your questions above . If i didnt please ask me .


Restin . i will ignore that .


Fork , If someone finds ways to get around solving their problems the problems become worse . We need other ways of looking at problems and not to ignore them . "compassion can only grow in those willing to encounter themselves truthfully. " ..... meaning you lot !!!!!!!

While you have all been in denial hundreds of palastinians have been murdered . What about empathy ? Put yourself in their position and be honest . What would you do ? Lick arse or stand up .


Caduceus . No thats not my premis . Your whole post is full of false asumptions . Thats your reaction . Thats whats in your head . How you react . Wouldnt it be better to stop having a wounded ego and putting yourself in the center and start talking about the palastinians . As i`ve said several times its not about you feeling guilty or me trying to make you feel guilty . The facts are that the palastinians are being abused , causing more abuse and nothing is happening . The situation as it is can only escalate . Should the world have ignored the plight oif the jews in the war ?

Just as i cant rent my daughter a flat i cant fly to palastine . ( "let them eat cake " ? ) I have no income and no way of getting that much money . I have no passport and dont want one . Its not possible to freely legaly travel to gaza .

"You'd probably sound like a Christian preacher, "

Funny . Thats exactly what i was thinking about your exagerated responses to what i say .

"Don't give us that "I love everyone" bullshit either" - "you wouldn't be on this forum. "

Are you threatening me mr.administrator ?

What would talking to palastinians do ? Nothing . They problem would not be solved . If the solution was in their hands they would do something about it . There is aneed for neutral arbitration with joint agreements and santions for breaking those agreements .

"Concerned, but not passionately concerned."

I am pasionatly concerned . Again its as you said a balance between me , my family and the rest of the world . We just draw the lines in diferent places . I am on an internationaly open web site , on an open net , in google and the whole world can , theoreticaly , see and think about what i say . There is not a more open or public platform available to me to say those things . To get the message across .

"You know GOD, I think you are a coward for posing a set of questions without giving your own answers first"

Havent we seen that in other threads ? I say something and define it as good as i can , give my answers..... and the thread dies . I already said that i have my thoughts on the subject and would say them later . We dont want the same thing to happen as in the legalise it disscussion . I said i didnt want to say my thoughts first because it would kill the discussion . There were very few replys so i explained..... and the discussion died .






Away from agresive denial and blaming me or ridiculing me . People are dying . Shouldnt the world do something ? What ?

 

[restin]

the thread is already dead.

 

[redhawk]

I already said that i have my thoughts on the subject and would say them later .

God, the world is waiting for you! Don’t wait too long, Palestinians are getting killed this very moment…

 

[GOD]

I understand what you mean Restin it sickens me . Isnt it strange that people cant talk about solving the problems in the midel east without changing the subject and turning it into personal denial and arguing against me . Arguing about what they think i want when i have havent told them and have already said i will explain later and why i will do it that way ? All i have done is ask people about what the world can do to solve the problems ? Look at the agression that came out . Why that agression ? Why against me ?

 

[restin]

your love to provoke is not understood by everyone. I told you some hypothetical answers, the one I thought would be the most effective is the cut of weapon industry. Another step to make would be to make the media and people *actively* aware of the problem in the middle east and force the government to act. But CM is right, the problem is complex. The Hamas is provoking and killing innocent people as well. The reaction of the *official* palestines is violence, which doesn't solve the problem.

Education - you say that it is about learning. But the difference between teaching and influencing is not that large. Imagine: we send some professional biologists,chemists and physics to teach them. By making the centre of education the knowledge of science we automatically influence their world view, we de-centralize religion and tradition. By forcing e.g. children of Blacksmith to go to school we automatically destroy the professionality and artistic value of the generations of Blacksmiths. They *learn* reading they *learn* science but they are still influenced. And will education really bring bliss? Does education make *good*? Remember, the ones that pull the strings are well educated men! Therefore I still hold the opinion that education and therefore globalisation is no solution for a conflict like that.

(Am I fleeing from the answer? no. I am discussing and this is not a Q&A-thread)

 

[Forkbender]

Fork , If someone finds ways to get around solving their problems the problems become worse . We need other ways of looking at problems and not to ignore them .

That is precisely what I meant, we need a new way of looking at the problem instead of butting our heads against it continuously. Finding a way around something can imply ignoring it, but that's not what I meant. We need to find a way so that both parties involved can look at the other behind all the conflict/bullshit & see that they are all human.

What I think needs to be done, is install international laws that take care of conflicts like this. The problem with these kinds of laws is that they are usually enforced in the interest of certain groups. This makes people wary and sceptical of such laws, which makes the system fall in upon itself. Implementation and enforcement of laws should therefore be agreed upon as well. Corruption shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

CWouldnt it be better to stop having a wounded ego and putting yourself in the center and start talking about the palastinians .

I don't have much to say about the palestinians. I've never been there, and I don't know any palestinians (or Iraelis) personally.

The situation as it is can only escalate . Should the world have ignored the plight oif the jews in the war ?

People didn't purposefully ignore their plight back then, though there was no Internet back then, only national radio and television. We know the nazis hated the Jews, but what did the common people think about them? I do not know.

Just as i cant rent my daughter a flat i cant fly to palastine . ( "let them eat cake " ? ) I have no income and no way of getting that much money . I have no passport and dont want one . Its not possible to freely legaly travel to gaza .

Exactly, but that's what I'm saying too. I can easily engage in local activism, and achieve something, but it's going to take enormous amounts of time and money to achieve only minimal results over there.

Are you threatening me mr.administrator ?

I've never threatened anyone or abused my position of site admin, nor am I planning to ever do so. But to answer your question, what I meant was that if you'd passionately care about the Palestinian plight, you'd be spending your time on a Free Palestine forum, or set up a website, or be in Palestine itself. Instead your main passion is psychedelics.

People are dying . Shouldnt the world do something ? What ?

People are dying all over the world, not just in Palestine. People are fighting for their land all over the world, not just in Palestine. We've got problems all over the world, even in Europe and the USA. If you'd ask "There are problems all over the world, shouldn't we spend some of our free time trying to do something about them?" I would take a different stance. But the Palestinian issue is too complex and too far removed from my everyday life. You could even say "I don't care about it." Because really, I hadn't thought about the Middle East for weeks. Why? Because I don't read the news anymore.

 

[GOD]

"your love to provoke is not understood by everyone."

So . Do people think i`m trying to be provokative ? No i am not . Not this time . I thought that was the problem ....... your conditioned responses . The title was ment as a provokation but the theme .... solving the problems in the middle east wasnt .


Thank you Fork . I needed that . We are talking about the same thing . Maybe its because of the training you have had about philosophy = thinking and how to think logicaly , neutraly and objectively that alows / helps you to not be subjective in a discussion like this .


Thanks Caduceus . You came down from your ivory tower , stoped insulting me and started talking about the problem .

" Instead your main passion is psychedelics. "

My main passion is not psychedelics . My main passion is philosophy . ( Truth , justice , objectivity , neutrality , love , the purpose of life ....... GOD ) .

About the mr.administrator bit . I know you dont do that . I`m very impressed at your honesty....... in most cases . Usualy if you dissagree you think about it and then change your stance if you see you were "wrong" . The only difference between us up till now was the astrology bit . Now we have come to a point in this discussion where either we calm down or it escalates . As i said i respect you as a human bean but i dont give a fuck about you being an administrator if i dont agree i dont agree and will say it .

Yes people are dying all over the world . In a legal sense a solution for the ones that are being killed has the priority . ( Weather palastinian or israeli ) .


Maybe if we poke our eyes out we wouldnt see any problems anymore . Or we could put a bag over our heads and say if i dont see it it isnt happening .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

but i dont give a fuck about you being an administrator if i dont agree i dont agree and will say it .

I hope everyone here feels the same. The moderators and administrators on this forum do not misuse their positions. You're never going to get censored for any of your opions here, only for spam and foul or consistently offensive language. I hate it when people bring up the Site Admin thing in discussions. I never asked for this position, and have offered it to someone else a couple of months ago.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Maybe if we poke our eyes out we wouldnt see any problems anymore . Or we could put a bag over our heads and say if i dont see it it isnt happening .

Not turning on the TV and not buying a newspaper is not the same as putting a bag over your head. It's living in the here and now. Which can be a very good thing, for yourself and others.

 

[mysticwarrior]

Why that agression ? Why against me ?

Come on man! I am starting to think you need to answer this question for youself....

 

[restin]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20081228133748205938.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/2008122871652501306.html


Give us your answer, GOD.

 

[magickmumu]

Magic ...... could it be that you have missunderstood me ....... and because of that got a guilty conscience about what you thought i mean ? Thats what you are talking about .... not the palastinians ...... your guilty conscience . Talking about the situation in palastine forces a person to think or run away and hide .

How could I misunderstand you , if you refuse to give your own personal view on the situation.

God it's very simple. If you just ask me what I think about the situation I am ready to discuss it with you. I am not at all shy to talk about the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
However if you are going to talk down on us (me) I am finished with it.

 

[GOD]

How big are you ? I always lie on my stomach on the floor when i surf . I know i have a big head but its not that big .

 

[magickmumu]

A man come on. say something on topic.


I am 1,85 I have a small head size.

 

[magickmumu]

Remember 2006

 

[GOD]

No .

 

[magickmumu]

The Lebanon war.

:wink: