Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

Le forum des amateurs de drogues et des explorateurs de l'esprit

Danger of Islam!

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion zezt
  • Date de début Date de début
Statut
N'est pas ouverte pour d'autres réponses.
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
zezt a dit:
I may check it on one of the ex muslims I have contacted, but I wonder if you know CM. Do you know what I said in Arabic? :)
??? ?? ??? ?????? ??????. ??? ?????? ???
 
I don't know yet. I just did a google search for ???????? and found lots of pages, including this wikipedia page. But I'd have to translate some more to see what's on this and other pages.

Hm, that wikipedia page seems to be about amphetamines rather than psychedelics.

Hmmm, then I tried translating psychedelic instead of psychedelics, and when I retranslated that Arab word, it became 'drug' in English...

So what are the Arab words for psychedelic and entheogen?
 
Arabic not arab .
 
I know one sentence in Arabic, which is pronounced as:

"te bwai ka da moor de quas pa shant"

Translation: "you smell like ur mothers pussy"



:rolleyes:
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
I don't know yet. I just did a google search for ???????? and found lots of pages, including this wikipedia page. But I'd have to translate some more to see what's on this and other pages.

Hm, that wikipedia page seems to be about amphetamines rather than psychedelics.

Hmmm, then I tried translating psychedelic instead of psychedelics, and when I retranslated that Arab word, it became 'drug' in English...

So what are the Arab words for psychedelic and entheogen?

When i sued google translation for 'psychedelic' I got this: ????
Is that the Arabic word that means 'drug'?

So I Googled the word and checked a few sites. The wikipedia one seemed very negativ about effects, but not sure if they are talking about psychedelics (of coursed i used 'translate site ;))

I am really interested in your idea though. Do you think you could begin a blog at blogger and then we could begin doing it...? It doesn't have to be all the psychedelic library at one, but bit by bit.........? What do you think?
 
who are you aiming at CM?

Do muslims in Holland, and the west know how to understand Arabic?

Do muslims in countries that do have free access to internet?

Tell me more why you think this idea of yours would be a good thing?
 
hmmmm was it all ...hot air?
 
This is very interesting article: http://librabunda.blogspot.com/

William Dalrymple: Wahhabi Radicals Are Determined to Destroy a Gentler, Kinder Islam

THE OBSERVER: Rahman Baba, "the Nightingale of Peshawar," was an 18th-century poet and mystic, a sort of North West Frontier version of Julian of Norwich.

He withdrew from the world and promised his followers that if they also loosened their ties with the world, they could purge their souls of worries and move towards direct experience of God. Rituals and fasting were for the pious, said the saint. What was important was to understand that divinity can best be reached through the gateway of the human heart - that we all have paradise within us, if we know where to look.

For centuries, Rahman Baba's shrine at the foot of the Khyber Pass has been a place where musicians and poets have gathered, and his Sufi verses in the Pukhtun language made him the national poet of the Pathans. As a young journalist covering the Soviet-mujahideen conflict I used to visit the shrine to watch Afghan refugee musicians sing their songs to their saint by the light of the moon.

Then, about 10 years ago, a Saudi-funded Wahhabi madrasa was built at the end of the track leading to the shrine. Soon its students took it on themselves to halt what they saw as unIslamic practices. On my last visit, I talked about the situation with the shrine keeper, Tila Mohammed. He described how young Islamists now came and complained that his shrine was a centre of idolatry and superstition: "My family have been singing here for generations," said Tila. "But now these Arab madrasa students come here and create trouble.

"They tell us that what we do is wrong. They ask people who are singing to stop. Sometimes arguments break out - even fist fights. This used to be a place where people came to get peace of mind. Now when they come here they just encounter more problems, so gradually have stopped coming."

"Before the Afghan war, there was nothing like this. But then the Saudis came, with their propaganda, to stop us visiting the saints, and to stop us preaching 'ishq [love]. Now this trouble happens more and more frequently."

Behind the violence lies a long theological conflict that has divided the Islamic world for centuries. Rahman Baba believed passionately in the importance of music, poetry and dancing as a path for reaching God, as a way of opening the gates of Paradise. But this use of poetry and music in ritual is one of the many aspects of Sufi practice that has attracted the wrath of modern Islamists. For although there is nothing in the Qur'an that bans music, Islamic tradition has always associated music with dancing girls and immorality, and there is a long tradition of clerical opposition. >>> William Dalrymple* | Sunday, March 8, 2009

*William Dalrymple 's Last Mughal won the Duff Cooper Prize and the Crossword Indian Book of the Year prize.

William Dalrymple’s website >>> [emphasis mine]

BIG clue here: "For although there is nothing in the Qur'an that bans music, Islamic tradition has always associated music with dancing girls and immorality, and there is a long tradition of clerical opposition."

What people inspires music singing poetry? Well creativity for sure, but yes, psychedelics. And of course the clerics would have that as their number one vice also. In fact not even acknowledged, I bet, taboo

I would be SO interested to do a kind of survey. To ask a wide variety of Muslims both here in Europe and in Middle East what their views of psychedelics are. Would they know about them, and if they did what would be their views about them?

AND it is very noteable that these clerics have no qualms with the PROMISE of dancing girls and sex in 'the next life' --especially for matrydom.
 
zezt a dit:
Do muslims in Holland, and the west know how to understand Arabic?
Arabic would be just one out many other languages, like Persian, Hebrew, Egyptian, Moroccan, Urdu etc.
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
zezt a dit:
Do muslims in Holland, and the west know how to understand Arabic?
Arabic would be just one out many other languages, like Persian, Hebrew, Egyptian, Moroccan, Urdu etc.

do you want to do it or not?
 
zezt a dit:
Tell me more why you think this idea of yours would be a good thing?
I think translating useful information is always a good idea. Just see what happened when Muslim scholars started translating Latin and Greek manuscripts. I think the basic concepts of entheogenic initiation should be available to all, so young people can learn about these things and consider whether they want to try it out for themselves. As pointed out by Brugmansia and others, psychedelics can unite people from different backgrounds. But I wouldn't embark on such a project to achieve world peace or to convert the religious fanatics. Rather, its purpose would be to help some individuals wake up, and perhaps facilitate some new waves of psychedelic interest amongst future generations.
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
zezt a dit:
Tell me more why you think this idea of yours would be a good thing?
I think translating useful information is always a good idea. Just see what happened when Muslim scholars started translating Latin and Greek manuscripts. I think the basic concepts of entheogenic initiation should be available to all, so young people can learn about these things and consider whether they want to try it out for themselves. As pointed out by Brugmansia and others, psychedelics can unite people from different backgrounds. But I wouldn't embark on such a project to achieve world peace or to convert the religious fanatics. Rather, its purpose would be to help some individuals wake up, and perhaps facilitate some new waves of psychedelic interest amongst future generations.

I think this a great idea, and made easier now because of Google help in translation. I just worry that order of language might be out of whack . You sometimes see this when you use google to translate a foreign page to your language, they get the order of how one's native language is spoken not precise

But even so it would be good. So you mean for abroad too? Or just Europe?

I have visins of the website design as a kind of similar design as Islamic art but not abstract pattern, but actualy flora, or pattern of plants etc.

Give us some ideas how you would like to present this? (by the way i am not good with graphics or comp. tech. I am just curious)
Are you serious about doing this?
 
But even so it would be good. So you mean for abroad too? Or just Europe?
Definitely for the whole world, not just Europe. And I want first class translations, nothing done by Google. There will be a standard presentation of what psychedelics are, why they are different from alcohol, stimulants and other drugs, and how they are commonly used. A basic introduction about the use of plants in ancient medicine and religion, past research in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy, their current legal status in the West, psychedelic culture etc. But not too many pages, or finding volunteers or financing freelancers will be difficult. There would also be a multilingual video, or videos. Once the text for the entire website has been written, I will ask my friend to translate it into Persian, and continue from there. How many languages are there in the world? There should be at least one site about the psychedelic experience in all those languages, regardless of whether the citizens of such countries have free access to the internet or not.
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
[quote:1uq9q09v]But even so it would be good. So you mean for abroad too? Or just Europe?
Definitely for the whole world, not just Europe
.

Good


And I want first class translations, nothing done by Google.

Why, what is wrong with Google? And UNLESS Google, who could do that and how much would that cost?

There will be a standard presentation of what psychedelics are, why they are different from alcohol, stimulants and other drugs, and how they are commonly used.

Erowid is an amazing source of knowledge for that!


A basic introduction about the use of plants in ancient medicine and religion, past research in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy, their current legal status in the West, psychedelic culture etc.

This stuff I am researching about!
I think it is VERY notable--see an above post of mine--how hard-line Muslim clerics hit down hard on singing and dancing, all means that inspire flow of emotional and spiritual energies. This is such an important insight to grasp, because toxic belief systems are rigid fossilized structures not allowed to flow.
Psychedelics are THE sacred medicine that can resolve this problem

But not too many pages, or finding volunteers or financing freelancers will be difficult.

But like I said, that is shooting yourself in the foot. WHY is not Google translation alright?

There would also be a multilingual video, or videos.

Is there software that can subtitle and/or create a voice of translation for audio?


Once the text for the entire website has been written, I will ask my friend to translate it into Persian, and continue from there.

Oh so you know someone. But you mentioned other languages, like Moroccan, etc? Also?

How many languages are there in the world? There should be at least one site about the psychedelic experience in all those languages, regardless of whether the citizens of such countries have free access to the internet or not.
[/quote:1uq9q09v]

Yeah true, but it is enough for us to focus on the Islamic world.

When is this beginning?
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
But even so it would be good. So you mean for abroad too? Or just Europe?
Definitely for the whole world, not just Europe. And I want first class translations, nothing done by Google. There will be a standard presentation of what psychedelics are, why they are different from alcohol, stimulants and other drugs, and how they are commonly used.

A great, positive idea, and good call on the translator. An article on the psychedelic experience (esp drugs) should be impeccable, if it sounds like it was written by a 3-year-old chimp it will seriously detract from anyone's ability to take it seriously

Back to the psychedelic experience in Arab nations, didn't see this mentioned in this thread, it's interesting to note that amongst the sufi, (while certainly not all drug users), some historically ingested hash seeking mystical experiences. Finding a concrete reference on the subject might be a good starting point..
 
zezt a dit:
Why, what is wrong with Google?
I've been a translator myself for a few years (1995-1999) and I can't imagine software could ever create a text that is pleasing to read, or even be accurate. I'm confident that if the text is good, I'll be able to find translators for many languages, at least all the European ones (except Iceland), most of the East-European languages, a couple of Asian ones, as well as Morrocan, Hebrew, Egyptian... And if they don't want to do it, I'm sure that by networking a bit we can find willing translators for all languages.

I think it is VERY notable--see an above post of mine--how hard-line Muslim clerics hit down hard on singing and dancing, all means that inspire flow of emotional and spiritual energies.
Yes, but they don't have very good argumentation for that. They can only refer to the hadith and sunah, not the Quran.

This is such an important insight to grasp, because toxic belief systems are rigid fossilized structures not allowed to flow.
Psychedelics are THE sacred medicine that can resolve this problem
Yes indeed. It's worthy to note that most of the modern psychedelic music is instrumental, and thus is much more neutral than some of the obviously 'satanic' music produced for MTV.

But like I said, that is shooting yourself in the foot. WHY is not Google translation alright?
Well, possibly both can be done: a front page and subpages all very well written, and a library of google translated texts, some of which might be translated by people later.

Is there software that can subtitle and/or create a voice of translation for audio?
Yes, I've created subtitle files for a couple of videos now. It's easy, you can add any language to a single Google or YouTube video.
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
zezt a dit:
Why, what is wrong with Google?
I've been a translator myself for a few years (1995-1999) and I can't imagine software could ever create a text that is pleasing to read, or even be accurate. I'm confident that if the text is good, I'll be able to find translators for many languages, at least all the European ones (except Iceland), most of the East-European languages, a couple of Asian ones, as well as Morrocan, Hebrew, Egyptian... And if they don't want to do it, I'm sure that by networking a bit we can find willing translators for all languages.

Oh, your full of surprises ;) Didn't know you were trained translator. Thats handy

[quote:23i5lqh9][quote:23i5lqh9]I think it is VERY notable--see an above post of mine--how hard-line Muslim clerics hit down hard on singing and dancing, all means that inspire flow of emotional and spiritual energies.
Yes, but they don't have very good argumentation for that. They can only refer to the hadith and sunah, not the Quran. [/quote:23i5lqh9]

Yes

[quote:23i5lqh9] This is such an important insight to grasp, because toxic belief systems are rigid fossilized structures not allowed to flow.
Psychedelics are THE sacred medicine that can resolve this problem
Yes indeed. It's worthy to note that most of the modern psychedelic music is instrumental, and thus is much more neutral than some of the obviously 'satanic' music produced for MTV. [/quote:23i5lqh9]

I understand.

[quote:23i5lqh9]But like I said, that is shooting yourself in the foot. WHY is not Google translation alright?
Well, possibly both can be done: a front page and subpages all very well written, and a library of google translated texts, some of which might be translated by people later.
[/quote:23i5lqh9]

Yes, great idea. Rather than reject Google translator outright. Can you personally tell it is limited in translation, and/or can your Persian friend? I'm curious

[quote:23i5lqh9]Is there software that can subtitle and/or create a voice of translation for audio?
Yes, I've created subtitle files for a couple of videos now. It's easy, you can add any language to a single Google or YouTube video.[/quote:23i5lqh9] :) [/quote:23i5lqh9]

That is great!

So when is this going to begin then?

It would be really significant to add Hebrew language with the idea of both Jews and Arabs/Muslims using this site. What do you think?
 
zezt a dit:
Yes, great idea. Rather than reject Google translator outright. Can you personally tell it is limited in translation,
At least a little bit. If you translated those Arabic lines I wrote earlier into English, you probably got "I came in peace", which originally was "I come in peace". And when I translated psychedelic, the program translated it into drug. So you can't really rely upon it.

So when is this going to begin then?
Wednesday perhaps?

It would be really significant to add Hebrew language with the idea of both Jews and Arabs/Muslims using this site. What do you think?
Yes, it's nice, but I wouldn't want to draw attention to that.
 
Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
zezt a dit:
Yes, great idea. Rather than reject Google translator outright. Can you personally tell it is limited in translation,
At least a little bit. If you translated those Arabic lines I wrote earlier into English, you probably got "I came in peace", which originally was "I come in peace". And when I translated psychedelic, the program translated it into drug. So you can't really rely upon it.

Yes I remember you saying. I would like to instead of 'psychedelic' or 'drug' call psychedelics sacred medicine. This is what many indigenous people call them. I saw an indigenous peoples protest group against war on drug enforcers with placards saying in big letters: OUR PLANTS ARE NOT 'DRUGS' THEY ARE SACRED MEDICINE
This is because the term 'drugs' has negative connotations, as we know, but psychedelic too is used by the war on drug people as a propaganda term that links it with 'Hippies and Tim Leary etc' and especially their favourite patsy for their crushing of the counterculture, Charles Manson and Family!

Just an idea. What do you think? I also feel the term would be more appropriate for religious-minded people.
Can you check with Google translator to see if they get that right, 'sacred medicine' in Arabic?

[quote:3rq166ay][quote:3rq166ay]So when is this going to begin then?
Wednesday perhaps?[/quote:3rq166ay]

COOL!

[quote:3rq166ay]It would be really significant to add Hebrew language with the idea of both Jews and Arabs/Muslims using this site. What do you think?
Yes, it's nice, but I wouldn't want to draw attention to that.[/quote:3rq166ay][/quote:3rq166ay]

How could you not? :)
 
I just found out that the History Channel documentary I mentioned earlier (got the DVD from the library) is available on YouTube:

Inside Islam, part 1
Inside Islam, part 2
Inside Islam, part 3
Inside Islam, part 4
Inside Islam, part 5
Inside Islam, part 6
Inside Islam, part 7
Inside Islam, part 8
Inside Islam, part 9

I agree very much with this description of the documentary at Amazon.com:

Kim Boykin a dit:
"Inside Islam" is a 2002 documentary that provides a good introduction to Islam. I use excerpts from it in teaching college classes on world religions. Topics include Islam's connections with Judaism and Christianity, the life of Muhammad, the Five Pillars of Islam (the profession of faith, prayer, charity, fasting during Ramadan, and the pilgrimage to Mecca), the history of Islam, women in Islam, European colonialism, Islamism, the Nation of Islam, and jihad.

While this documentary may not provide an entirely balanced picture of Islam (leaning heavily toward the positive), if you're looking to get a basic literacy in Islam--to understand what the central practices are, who Muhammad is, and a bit of the history of Islam--I'd highly recommend this video.

AAE70652-03.jpg
 
Statut
N'est pas ouverte pour d'autres réponses.
Retour
Haut