Danger of Islam!

[magickmumu]

And let's not forget. Wilders was all for the mushroom ban.

 

[Shamanita]

And let's not forget. Wilders was all for the mushroom ban.

and that wilders tells every one he wants more freedom.. tssss




i have only one more thing to say in this thread:

 

[zezt]

And let's not forget. Wilders was all for the mushroom ban.

and that wilders tells every one he wants more freedom.. tssss




i have only one more thing to say in this thread:

So you want to coexist with a person who is against womens rights and gay rights ~~~~human rights?

You don't want to speak out. You want to stay nice and safe and not cause offense?

You dont want to say /ask 'why are you treating women, and gay people, and children that way?'

I take it your pissed off about prohibition against mushrooms right?

 

[restin]

 

[Meduzz]

Why is this thread still here?

 

[zezt]

Why is this thread still here?

It IS here. Live with it 8)

 

[Shamanita]

And let's not forget. Wilders was all for the mushroom ban.

and that wilders tells every one he wants more freedom.. tssss




i have only one more thing to say in this thread:

So you want to coexist with a person who is against womens rights and gay rights ~~~~human rights?

You don't want to speak out. You want to stay nice and safe and not cause offense?

You dont want to say /ask 'why are you treating women, and gay people, and children that way?'

I take it your pissed off about prohibition against mushrooms right?

 

[zezt]

And let's not forget. Wilders was all for the mushroom ban.

and that wilders tells every one he wants more freedom.. tssss




i have only one more thing to say in this thread:

So you want to coexist with a person who is against womens rights and gay rights ~~~~human rights?

You don't want to speak out. You want to stay nice and safe and not cause offense?

You dont want to say /ask 'why are you treating women, and gay people, and children that way?'

I take it your pissed off about prohibition against mushrooms right?

so right. you care SO much about human rights the only reaction you have is 'roll eyes'?

 

[Forkbender]

zezt, look at the O and the E in COEXIST.

It says more about you that you pick out those things than it says about Shamanita.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

The co-exist image suggests it's not just us who have to live side by side with muslims, but the muslims also having to live side by side with liberated women and homosexuals (the E in co-exist), theists and atheists, comedians etc. It's not a one-way street. If modern muslims come to that point, we can indeed co-exist. But the question that's being raised in this thread is whether Islam encourages followers to co-exist with nonmuslims. And with all that has been discussed so far, the co-exist image, though certainly well-intended, is a bit naive.

The West has no problems co-existing with the groups represented by the symbols in the image. The West (or the Netherlands at least) welcomed people from all countries, allowed them to build mandirs (Hindu temples), synagogues, mosques and Buddhist temples, and allowed them to preach their message wherever they want. There's no hostility, even from people whose countries were once invaded by the Dutch or British (India for example) and whose cultures and traditions were scoffed at by Christian missionaries.

I think the co-existing is quite possible in the modern age, especially for the younger generations (including the children and grandchildren of muslims growing up in the West). Problems arise when people refuse to modernize, or even harken back to days of yore, letting an ancient text rule their lives. Especially when that text was created in one of most turbulent periods in human history.

 

[Forkbender]

The co-exist image suggests it's not just us who have to live side by side with muslims, but the muslims also having to live side by side with liberated women and homosexuals (the E in co-exist), theists and atheists, comedians etc. It's not a one-way street. If modern muslims come to that point, we can indeed co-exist. But the question that's being raised in this thread is whether Islam encourages followers to co-exist with nonmuslims. And with all that has been discussed so far, the co-exist image, though certainly well-intended, is a bit naive.

I think the majority of muslims coexist peacefully with everyone even if they don't agree with their way of life (critique can go both ways as well) and I remember from reading the Quran that there are a lot of passages saying that you should not enforce your belief system on others, but just tell them 'the Truth'.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I think the majority of muslims coexist peacefully with everyone even if they don't agree with their way of life (critique can go both ways as well) and I remember from reading the Quran that there are a lot of passages saying that you should not enforce your belief system on others, but just tell them 'the Truth'.

I really can't tell if it's a majority or not, but I do know there are and have been many muslims (individuals and groups) living in peace with people of other persuasions. Just like nowadays, past wars were mostly initiated by power hungry rulers, whose quest for territory and resources is insatiable. So I'm optimistic in that regard, especially when taking the forces of modernization into account: children of muslims living in the West will be exposed to modern languages and concepts, as well as modern (erotic) art and (psychedelic) literature and music. Even if the first generation doesn't get it, it's likely future generations will. My hope is that these new generations will become more and more 'moderate'. I also hope there will be peace and then prosperity in the Middle-East, Africa and Asia, so that radical viewpoints become obsolete.

What we can do, is start translating psychedelic literature, websites and videos into Arab and other non-European languages. If I could make a living with such a project, I'd start right away, or engage some of my unemployed friends.

 

[Shamanita]

so right. you care SO much about human rights the only reaction you have is 'roll eyes'?

No, it was actually coz i said i wasn't going to say anyting in this thread anymore but now i'm again saying something...

The co-exist image is indeed to all, not only we as western people, but also muslims, hindu's, jews, ... have to co-exist in this world.

I can only speak about my own personal experience with muslims, which was always really good. They do can coexits, coz some of them were good friends of me on school. And they do were real muslims, who pray a couple of times a day, and who fasted a month (ramadan).
A neighboor of me, can't coexist, coz she has fear of the unknown. She won't open her door if there was someone with a black skin ringing at the doorbell... And yes, she do is a real western lady...

I think next generation of any culture learn better to coexits, coz nowadays almost every one knows someone else who has a different culture. They see that those people are friendly, although they do have another religion... We see that those people are human just like us, and we all have so much in common...


Although, i have to admit, talking about homosexualism with muslims is difficult. But it's also difficult to talk about it with 50% of teh western people. Many people think it's disguisting, and can't talk about it, not only in the islamic culture, but also anywhere else... There are enough belgians i know who don't even wanna sit close to a homosexual, or don't want to have a homosexual as their friend...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

A neighboor of me, can't coexist, coz she has fear of the unknown. She won't open her door if there was someone with a black skin ringing at the doorbell... And yes, she do is a real western lady...

What's her age? I'm quite sure she's older than your muslim friends. Xenophobia (amongst westerners and muslims) seems to be something of older generations especially.

 

[Shamanita]

A neighboor of me, can't coexist, coz she has fear of the unknown. She won't open her door if there was someone with a black skin ringing at the doorbell... And yes, she do is a real western lady...

What's her age? I'm quite sure she's older than your muslim friends. Xenophobia (amongst westerners and muslims) seems to be something of older generations especially.

No, not at all... She's only 25 now.

But her parents have racistic thoughts too, i think that plays a big role in it...

Another neighbor of me is only 15 and he's a fascist too, but he was also educated with fascistic thoughts. His dad made a crossbow for him once when he was younger. And his dad told him "that's for shooting niggers"... educating your kids with such words isn't acceptable ..

And the thing is, that I live on the country, in our neighborhood, there don't live any muslims/foreigners. So it's purely xenophobic...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

And the thing is, that I live on the country, in our neighborhood, there don't live any muslims/foreigners. So it's purely xenophobic...

Yes, much like in the Deep South.

Regarding future generations I mentioned a couple of posts ago, I just had a talk with my Iranian friend, and he told me that even many of the Ayatollah Khomeini's grandchildren are currently active in the reform movement! He sent me an article, which stated:

"When Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini returned to Iran from exile 30 years ago this weekend, to lead the Islamic revolution that swept away the US-backed regime of the Shah and ushered in a theocracy, he kept his immediate family out of politics.

Other than Ahmad, his youngest son, who was his companion and, in effect, his spokesman until the leader's death in 1989, little was known about the Khomeini household. Recently however, long after the revolution's lustre has faded, Iranians have begun to notice some of his 15 grandchildren, particularly as they have added their voices to the reform movement.

The reformists struggled for years - with little success - to reconcile the rule of the clerics instituted by Ayatollah Khomeini with the principles of a democracy and accountable government."

And:

"While it might be thought ironic that the Khomeini family is today most closely associated with the reformist camp, some high-profile reformist politicians were close to the leader during his life. They became isolated from power after his death.

The Khomeinis are also tied to reformists through marriage. Ms Eshraghi is the wife of Reza Khatami, a senior reformist and brother of Mohammad Khatami, the former president and leader of the reform movement, which has long sought to promote dialogue with the west and bring Iran back into the international fold. "

Source

 

[Brugmansia]

The West (or the Netherlands at least) welcomed people from all countries, allowed them to build mandirs (Hindu temples), synagogues, mosques and Buddhist temples, and allowed them to preach their message wherever they want. There's no hostility, even from people whose countries were once invaded by the Dutch or British (India for example) and whose cultures and traditions were scoffed at by Christian missionaries.

I think the co-existing is quite possible in the modern age, especially for the younger generations (including the children and grandchildren of muslims growing up in the West). Problems arise when people refuse to modernize

Well, I didn't want to put this straight away, but since it has now been said I think it is not shabby to say that our model is by far the most advantageous when it comes to fusing cultures. While the world is behind us.

Amsterdam is the city with the most different nationalities in the world. Over 180. Our civillians are spread all over the world as well.

I want to put concrete, that our country isn't red, white blue but just orange. Orange = the sun, and the sun is the there for everyone. We have always been open to everyone for centuries, not just with trade, but also absorbing many foreign cultures and the understanding of it.

It is true that the Islam is notorious present amoung all those cultures. And for the record, it is not that we are afraid for our culture. No, we are afraid for the place in where cultures are binded since this unique surface is possibily the deepest bottom of humanity itself.

We'll be probably the last population that will claim this place as holy, but rationally speaking, I can't imagine another being so unlabeled when it comes to people. That's actually what we are worried about. To lose it to severe Islam or Judaism. Both are a threat since they are too much autonomous with their label.

There's no doubt that if a Moslem and a Jew smoke both together some weed in one of our shops, that they'll at least be encouraged to think in the depth about each other, and since our atmosphere is neutral, is contributes to the setting.

Of course, xenophobia for THC/Shrooms is because it ties cultures together. And those who have nothing to live for except for their label/identity, Imams/Wilders/Conservative Jews/Religious figures, are afraid that they have to put the jug they control, into the collective pool of human connection.

When the whites came to the Indians in America, who held an ignorance of identity, they just were beings with feelings together; they gave the whites food, warmth and a wigwam. And what did they got? A bullet through their head. The Indians encountered beings, while the Whites encountered strangers. Think about that a little bit longer.

I think it has nothing to do with modernisation, since it is often confused with materialism, but more like a willingness to learn about being 'nothing'. And learn to operate within life to become one of many people, and choose direction instead of ambition to stand somewhere for recognition.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Well put.

I think it has nothing to do with modernisation, since it is often confused with materialism,

When I use the word modernization I mean the psychedelic revolution, women's liberation, the internet as a global library, individualism, the blending of cultures etc. But indeed, the word modernization may easily be confused with Paris Hiltonism.

 

[silv]

I really can't tell if it's a majority or not, but I do know there are and have been many muslims (individuals and groups) living in peace with people of other persuasions

Funny you should say that, there's 2 billion muslims in the world, I'd dare a guess at what the majority is doing

 

[GOD]

"Funny you should say that, there's 2 billion muslims in the world, I'd dare a guess at what the majority is doing "

Because your not a rasist or a trouble maker .