Why we trip-What is a Bad trip-How to avoid them.In theory..

[MzFly]

Instead of just moving air (moving bits in this case), why dont you come with some arguments out of this theory and explain why they cant be true instead of making anyone with an open mind who looks at this theory, look like an idiot. Because thats all you do with these remaks.

I've never read a word written by Terence McKenna, but I've read every word ever written by James Kent. James offers his theory as to what went "wrong" with poor Terence, Timothy, et al in chapter 20 of his book "Psychedelic Information Theory".
http://tripzine.com/listing.php?id=pit20

By the way ... I'd love to see a rousing thread concerning the existence of Jesus!

 

[Brewmaster]

Jesus is very real. I work with him. He and his family just moved here from Guatamala. He pronounces it " hey-soos ", though. That guy tells the funniest damn jokes.

 

[HeartCore]

Instead of just moving air (moving bits in this case), why dont you come with some arguments out of this theory and explain why they cant be true instead of making anyone with an open mind who looks at this theory, look like an idiot. Because thats all you do with these remaks.

I've never read a word written by Terence McKenna, but I've read every word ever written by James Kent. James offers his theory as to what went "wrong" with poor Terence, Timothy, et al in chapter 20 of his book "Psychedelic Information Theory".
http://tripzine.com/listing.php?id=pit20

You should have read something before posting this because its absolute bullshit. I cite:

They convince themselves they are at the center of a grand cosmic conspiracy, and that the only way to resolve the crisis is to do more drugs, and to get other people to do more drugs to see how right they are. This was the logic that trapped Timothy Leary, John Lilly, Terence McKenna, and many other latter-day prophets like Zoe-7.

Terence didnt take conspiracy theories serious at all. I don't know this James Kent but the assumptions here about Mckenna and even Leary, are just wrong.

Terence never felt himself a messiah or guru or leader. Get your facts straight please before repeating someone else bullshit about someone you know nothing about.

Sorry to come across harsh but Terence was one of the greatest minds of our time, very humble, very selfcritical and never pretended to know what its all about.

He didnt believe all his theories himself, and he always was the first to admit. However, the stoned ape theory is grand.

He never claimed, as is mentioned in that article, that he contacted aliens. Au contrary, he said, 'most likely, we see the entities in the DMT trip, as aliens because we just dont have a better description.


I'll write up his stoned ape theory in a nutshell tonight.

By the way ... I'd love to see a rousing thread concerning the existence of Jesus!

Hmm gonna be a busy weekend. I'll write a short review of the book 'the Jesus mysteries'.

 

[MzFly]

Terence never felt himself a messiah or guru or leader. Get your facts straight please before repeating someone else bullshit about someone you know nothing about.

Poor soul ... you seem so lost ... so fragile ... so filled with rage and hostility ... I stated no fact, other than that I had never read a word written by Terence, thereby admitting openly and immediately that I knew nothing whatsoever about anything he had ever written ... and I repeated nothing ... I simply provided a link to the thoughts and opinions of someone who has thoughts and opinions that are different from yours ... surely, you don't truly believe that yours is the only valid and acceptable opinion ...

Are you okay heartcore?

 

[HeartCore]

... I stated no fact, other than that I had never read a word written by Terence, thereby admitting openly and immediately that I knew nothing whatsoever about anything he had ever written ..

So what exactly was your point in posting it since you havent got a clue about mckenna yourself?

Poor soul ... you seem so lost ... so fragile ... so filled with rage and hostility ...

If thats what you want to perceive, than thats what you want to perceive, your choice right?

.. surely, you don't truly believe that yours is the only valid and acceptable opinion ...

Where did I say that?

 

[MzFly]

So what exactly was your point in posting it since you havent got a clue about mckenna yourself?

My goodness, heartcore ... the point was to make available another opinion to the members here ... other than yours ... is that okay?
I mean ... it seems to be deeply offensive to you to realize that all members here do not agree with you.

I must withdraw from this discussion, as reading and participating leaves me feeling very uncomfortable. I hope you find what you're looking for heartcore ... peace and love :heart:


.

 

[HeartCore]

Sorry that was out of line....

Anycase, that link you shared is generalizing a lot, thats the complaint I have. Furthermore, it states certain things about Mckenna which are just wrong assumptions and if you would know any of his work. you would have known. That was my point.

Clear?

 

[Ilian]

Let's keep this discussion nice and clean
we are already a small minority (psychonauts), lets not have arguements with ourselves

 

[HeartCore]

Agree Bomski and apologies to everyone about reacting.

I just want to mention that I didnt do a personal attack, I attacked the info that was posted. I never refered to anyone as pour soul or whatever.

In my opinion discussions may be heated, often this is for the better of the discussion. As long as no personal attacks are made. Mzfly, if you reread what I said to you and how you responded, you will see that I attacked the information you put there, not you personally. Calling me a pour soul was uncalled for in my opinion.

I could and probably should, have put my reply in a more friendly way.

Edit:

Anyway, for anyone interested, I posted a stoned ape theory in the mushroom forum. I promise I will behave...

 

[MzFly]

Hey HeartCore ... this Terence Mckenna stuff is so vast and so pertinent to the whole psychonautic/entheogenic experience ... why not request that it be given its own forum??
Maybe one for Mckenna alone - or one that covers all of the psychonautic/entheogenic pioneers in general - or both!
I can think of a moderator who would fit the bill like a glove :wink:

You don't like being called a "poor soul"? Kinda sounds like an insult disguised as compassion, non? A low blow on my part ... much sincere apologizing from Mz Fly

 

[Richy]

Hello.I've not had access to a computer for a week,and this thing seems to have taken a life of it's own!Cool!Anywany,Hearcore,I've had no experience of DMT or mescaline-but I'd love to,but they are rearer than rocking horse shit round my parts.And,Brewmaster,we agree on something,I too believe that jesus was the man.But,I don't want to finish on that point,cos I know that that isnt everyones bag,maaaaannn.


I want to say that I do not know much about Mckenna,but I do agree with his,"the map of the territory,and the territory of the map",it seems to fit with my philosophy,and seems to be apparent when you are tripping,too.

 

[entheogenresearcher]

Hi everybody

Have you ever had any bad trips? How did you deal with it? Did it affect you for a long time, or did you get over it quickly?

(I ask this as a part of my ongoing research on entheogens in spiritual practice. Replies can be quoted from in my upcoming research paper. See entheogenstudy.org if you are interested in being more broadly interviewed about your entheogen practice.)

 

[Sludge]

I never experienced a traumatizing bad trip, but i think that it is essential to not just put the trip behind. You need to integrate the experience, understand its lessons, talk about it with people you trust to really go on. Also you need to really take time before tripping again to rest and take care of yourself.

The psychedelic isn't bad itself but your inner self can really give you a lesson the hard way. Also if the setting is not right, you could be traumatized by outside elements and the fear and panic it can cause you. But the way of dealing with the bad trip is the same. It's all about understanding and love (caring).

 

[Abej^a G.]

I agree with Sludge, life itself can be a bad trip. the psychedelic experience is to absorb, make it their own and understand how we can improve.

wisely used, psychedelic medications can bring out episodes/energies latent, but even these (like any medicine), these will can heal only superficially, without giving light to the Shadow of the unconscious repressed psychic.

when we talk about love, we talk about love for ourself, when we really are in peace and harmony, we want that all the world we will be in peace and harmony, I understood this from the experiences, good and bad, with psychedelics, we destroy the selfishness


How do I deal with bad trips?
with the calm, with breathing (of diaphragm), with communication, knowing that they are already exceeded situations, can change the characters and the scenery, but the stories are repeated

"Todos es igual y por tanto sin importancia" ("Everything is the same and therefore unimportant"), says a Teacher.

 

[entheogenresearcher]

Thanks for replies!

Sludge: what do you do to set up a session? Is there a kind of ritual involving set and setting that minimizes the possibility of fear and panic?

Abeja: Same question for you, but also: from where do you have these breathing and awareness practices? Do you practice this on its own?

 

[Abej^a G.]

at the moment, I practice them alone (learned thanks to this forum too)

see the link in my signature? (about Ramana Maharshi, Thich Nhat Hanh...) ..now we are on the threshold of three thousand, that was a source of knowledge of a niche, now it can be found by searching with google.
if the Master comes, if we will find along the way, it would be great!
for now we try, we will put perseverance and passion, do not mess with these things, "spirits can lead us to madness, if erroneously called and without respect (even that of the hemp)"

as regards the rituals, for example, I am used to do the 5 Tibetan. and pray. and sing my mantra.

 

[Sludge]

Sludge: what do you do to set up a session? Is there a kind of ritual involving set and setting that minimizes the possibility of fear and panic?

Being with people we trust, trying to be sure that everyone is well informed on what they consume, what dose and which effects they expect. Also it's very important to be aware of what or who will be around you when you trip. I prefer to be around people knowing that we may be tripping, people that won't judge us, make fun of us or trying to get us mad. So, I prefer to be in a psychedelic party or in nature, but not in a crowded city for instance. Also I prefer to be sure that police is not around or other things that will get us overly stressed.

Also if the product last long, I always make sure that everyone will have the time to rest and won't have responsibilities, having to drive go to work the next day, etc.
For example, effects of LSD last 10 to 20 hours. But you need a solid 36 to 48 hours to rest.

 

[Finarfin]

I had difficult experiences (not bad but challanging).

If you want to do a psychedelic session take your time to think about set and setting. Take your time to prepare.

I would not take a psychedelic in the middle of a busy city or town. I would advise to avoid busy places.
It, s important to pick a safe and comfortable place to trip.
Think about what it is you want to get out of the trip and what it is you want to do during your journey.
Remember that when you take a psychedelic it, s like everything comes thru the senses unfilterd.
Outside stimuli can become intrusive or annoying.
Normal sounds like cars passing by for example can become a bit intrusive sometimes.
Also it, s easier to focus on your trip. when you are not botherd by outside stimuli.

MAPS put out a video about what to do in case of a bad trip. One of the things they say in this video is: When somebody has a bad trip take them to a quite room.


One thing that helps me a lot when having a bad trip or a difficult experience, is using my voice. One thing you can do is sing. You could make the aum sound. Or you can chant other mantra, s such as ohm mani padme hum, ohm shanti, or namu amida butsu.

If you want to listen to music i would advise atmospheric music, music that takes you on a inner journey. Instrumental music for example.
Using headphone can sometimes be a good way to block outside sounds.

Meditation can be helpfull.
Meditation can be a way to center yourself and to find inner peace and calmness.

 

[zezt]

here is a bummer I had simmarized. This happened about 1979/80. me and a friend had gone to a park and picked fresh liberty caps, and we eat them raw too.

The setting was a room. We covered fictures and furnishings because we painting on little canvases with oils

He told me he had brought some music, but one of the albums he said he would not tell me what it was and surprise me. The first we listened to as trip came up was the great Dr John's Night Tripper. I was familiar with it for years and love it

Now here is an interesting point. Prior to our trip my ffriend, who was an alcoholic, was kind of making alight of tripping, and at that time I was reading about eg 'if you supset the spirits of the mushrooms they can kill you', and I freaked out and told him that

Anywaym back to the trip. So, we were beginning painting, and I felt that there was no sense of division between me painting and the painting. I was painting the paimting was painting me...if you get me

Now, this is where my mate, Paul, put on the LP which he said was surprise. it was Oxygene which as you make know is this trippy electronic music--very new then. So this music just blew my mind and I begin closing my eyes, and I am flying through the deepest darkest space, and through these enormous coils which have underworld right-colours that are alive, and shifting and as I fly by playing hide and seek behind these coils are these little beings, wearing old-fashioned colthes which are very rich and bright

I sense they are mischievous and are guiding my trip. If say I half open my eyes I can see I am in the room again, but when I shut them I am back in that vision. Now, the whole vibe of the LP on the turntable from the first---both LPs were crackly, was this sense of timelessness, the going round and round and the crackles sounded ancient, and as the track changes it changes into a VERY eerie music which involves what soundls like birds singing bacwards. My vision now changes and I am flying slowly and timelessly into a whirlpool that is made entirely of emaciated-looking bodies like you would see in a Nazi concentration camp, but with eyes open and staring. I am being sucked into this horror in a timeless way, and I totally freaked out. As I was going in, I was sensing cold flesh, and parts of my body were aching and I freaked the fuck out!!!!
When I opening my eyes I raced over to the record player and turned the volume down, and my friend was like 'WTF' and I just replied 'It is too sad'. I then got up to go to the front door to try and calm myself down, and I remember zillions of particles flying from the walls etc. I got to the door and opened it, and we had a tree by the gate and I looked at the blue sky in between branches to cool me down

I should also say that this period this happened in was terrible. my life was very fucked up and I was working this terrible job in a factory sweat shop. So I had a lot of sadness in me.

I regretted for years not going with the vision into the whirlpool of death. That can be the trouble with so-called recreational tripping. When stuff like that happens there is no support

 

[entheogenresearcher]

Thanks all. Can I ask all of you what kinds of drugs you prefer and how often you use them? Does tripping too often lead to bad trips?

Abeja: So if I understand you right you mostly have entheogen sessions on your own, and prepare for them with ritual actions including prayer and mantra? And this is something you learnt on this forum after you started doing entheogenic drugs?

Sludge: What you are saying sounds very reasonable, but it mostly deals with getting the right setting. How do you get yourself in the mood for a trip? (Or does it just happen automatically?) And do you always trip in the company of other people?

Finarfin: Where did you pick up the mantra and meditation practice? Do you use it only for tripping or in your daily life too? And can you give an example of what you might be hoping to get out of a trip?

zezt: Pretty intense. Did the experience bother you afterwards (except for the regret)? And did you move on to some other form of tripping (non-recreational) at a later time?