Why we trip-What is a Bad trip-How to avoid them.In theory..

[HeartCore]

Yes agree definitaly, calling shrooms good time drugs is like saying 'I never did enoug'.

Much easier hitting the mark with good cubensis opposed to 200-500 semilanceara. The ONLY way you can get really off with semilanceata, is by making a strong tea or eating all shrooms within 5-10 minutes. (munch 1, munch 2, mucn 3...etc...etc...etc..munch 500 lol).

O and Brew....where did I ever say 300grams??? Thats nonsense I dont respect sorry

between 70-120 grams is a sure full dose. Thats what I always say and there's nothing crazy about that. Thats like saying that taking half a blotter is sane, and an entire blotter is not. Think about it and thank you .

Peace

PS 150 semilanceata Rich? No thank you very much, I never liked to trip on semilanceata because its so hard to get really off them.

 

[patilan420]

Why we trip- Because we learned how and we are able to do it.
what is a "bad trip" I'm not shure, once the mother of one friend(she is a toxicologist btw.) ate a 2 peases of a birthday chocolate cake, without knowing what's ELSE inside(about 100 semilanceata in each), than went to workplace, prepared to dye and trying to find what' she get "poisoned" from.. maybe that's a bad trip.
I'm thankfull for al my trips, because they teach me lots about BEENG
"Don't give up, surrender.."
"breath in, breath out and let go"
"turn on tune in and you drop out"
(Om mani padme hum!"

whatewer.
DMT-OMG
LSD hmm..(lots of doubt)
mushrooms- why to "get off: of them?
after shrooms it feel like "Oh, why they are geting ofF?"
after LSD - "Am I realy off?"
and after DMT- "brand new life, brand world"
after mescaline-" next time 2 times more"
when salvia is heting of-"WHAT the hell was That?!?"
p.s. in almost every enteogenick comunity there are "team Lyizergin" Vs. "team Tryptamiine" endless discusion... and 3 wize old mescaline -lovers, who observe transcendentaly what is going on around..

 

[HeartCore]

mushrooms- why to "get off: of them?
after shrooms it feel like "Oh, why they are geting ofF?"

You mean the effect is low? Or do you mean something else?

I ask because there really isnt much diference between DMT and mushrooms and you can reach the same place you get on DMT, on mushrooms. Its all about dosage and breath control.

If you say 'why to get off' of mushrooms and at the same time you say DMT OMG, its really clear you havent experienced the mushroom in all its glory.

Damn I keep repeating myself, this sounds like a fucking salespitch but it isnt.

For anyone getting tired of my musrhoom prayers go check out Terence Mckenna and a few of his lectures. He was saying the exact same thing, people havent got a clue about the power of mushrooms if they didnt go all the way at least once in their lives. And this is a fact, as everyone who did go all the way, can confirm

O well..

Rich, I kept my mouth shut about Mescaline because I dont have any first hand experience. What I did learn about it, didnt get me interested at all in mescaline. What I hear a lot, is that a mescaline trip means you stay in control. In other words, you get visuals, dimensions, but no shift in consciousness, ego loss etc... Could you comment on that Rich?

Furthermore, I really dont like the LD50 dose of mescalin, compared to psilocybin, mescaline is pure poison which is also a reason I never tried it.

 

[Pazusu]

...allmost feeling not welcome in the conversation, not having tried large doses. But still there raises a question for me, that fits in this topic.

Heartcore, patilan, tryptonaut, Richy, you all experience a lot with shroomtrips and other psycho-activity. I myself just found out about this (thanks to Heartcore :wink. And I noticed I'm thinking a lot about the stuff and planning how to start my next trip. It actually becomes a part of life. But trying to imagine having done hundreds of trips, I start thinking what's the purpose of tripping another time? Will there ever be a time that you learnt your lessons and stop living for the shroom, but you start living for the works of life on this planet? Or can you guys give a hint where the journey of life will be heading? When will you guys safe the planet, like superhero's? (no offense, just kidding)
It'll probably be all individual goals. But I was wondering about this.

I myself first decided a certain goal (or ideal, highest vision of myself) for my life. And while tripping I hope to find out things that can help me find the right path in life. On low doses I allready found out (or better: experienced) a lot of usefull things to get moving on. I can imagine on a full dose you might learn a lot. But maybe the dose is so high that the human mind can't even really comprehend what it's all really about. And maybe it's more "workeable" to be learning on lower doses. Ofcourse I can't know, 'cos I still didn't try a high dose.

It somehow comes to me like if once one does a high dose, the low dose people don't count anymore, not to talk about the ordinary "not knowing" people of the world. Maybe I think too much in a hierachic way and need some more shrooms to see... :wink:

 

[HeartCore]

For me its part curiosity (especially having chased DMT for over 15 years before it found me). But for most part its because, tripipng periodically, makes me a better person.

I have the experience that when I trip once per month deeply, I just feel better in general. The first days after the experience, there is a lot of re-recognition in reality, what things are important, what things are not etc.. but also it helps me a lot when 'the mushroom' let me look at myself with other eyes.

Its my religion, maybe, although its nothing like the religion I was told about in school and by my familiy. Still, its the closest thing to sacredness I've ever found, and I've looked for a long time (although time is all relative and 36 years can HARDLY be seen as a long time ).

The first time I did mushrooms by myself in silent darknesss it was like, OMG, THIS is what I've been looking for in church, and much more.

And there is always more to learn. When I do my duties (trip) on a regular basis, very often, I am completely cool with myself meaning, I dont have any pressing issues that need to be solved. When thats the case, often, 'the mushroom' presents me some amazing show about the emergence of life on our planet (for example), how cats experience consiousness (for example), let me experience consiousness as a cat (for example ) etc etc ...

My goal is part individual, for sure, this is a personal road of enlightenment (or darkening ) that I choose to follow.

However, I am not on this path for me alone and it is my personal believe, that every person on the planet, should be able to make an intelligent, free choice, about taking part in this experience once in their live. Or to speak with Terence words, I believe the psychedelic experience is is a birthright. And that going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience, is like going to the grave without ever having sex.

Whats the purpose of a trip? Whats the purpose of life?

Maybe there isnt purpose and its all biological tricks to keep life interesting enough for us, to spread ourselves to each forgotten rock in this galaxy.

Who knows?

I don't, and I don't need to

 

[Brewmaster]

Heart, I was being sarcastic. I know you never said 300g but you seam to be able to handle a much higher dose than I ever could. At 120g I would lose my shit.

This past weekend, I finally tried some of my creepers. I only ate 10g since I was alone and I haven't eaten mushies in 4 years. It was great. I laughed at my dogs for hours and had a few conversations with them. If I can find time this weekend I'll try a 30g dose.

How can you say mescaline is pure poison?

 

[HeartCore]

How can you say mescaline is pure poison?

Compared to psilocybin if you take the LD50 in consideration. Which means, the lethal dose of mescaline is not so much higher than the active dose whereas with psilocybin, the lethal dose is about 600 times the active dose. Its all relative though.

Sorry, didnt notice you where being sarcastic, and besides that, I guess I was acting like a dick this weekend. Sorry, shit in life happens and I should stay away from the reply button when it does

 

[Pazusu]

However, I am not on this path for me alone and it is my personal believe, that every person on the planet, should be able to make an intelligent, free choice, about taking part in this experience once in their live. Or to speak with Terence words, I believe the psychedelic experience is is a birthright. And that going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience, is like going to the grave without ever having sex.

Whats the purpose of a trip? Whats the purpose of life?

Maybe there isnt purpose and its all biological tricks to keep life interesting enough for us, to spread ourselves to each forgotten rock in this galaxy.

Who knows?

I don't, and I don't need to

I think (now sounding like miss world telling what everyone wants to hear) :heart: life is about love :heart:. A purpose is that that is something we all get to need to know. And it's opposites have a major function in it to let it come out. So we shouldn't judge on this, everyone has his/hers way. I believe in the end no one is going to die, not knowing that's what we are: love.

But looking from lightyears away to the earth (that's one vision of God that some people adhere to) one might think there is no other purpose but the evolutionary will just to exist, because it wouldn't have existed if this will wasn't there.

I think that we then are speaking with the intelligence coming from our minds, not from our spirits.

 

[Brewmaster]

Heartcore wrote:

lethal dose of mescaline is not so much higher than the active dose

Actually this could not be further from the truth. Here's a question from "Ask Erowid".


Q: I have read somewhere that 1200mg of mescaline can be deadly for humans (respiratory depression, liver damage), which would be three times the amount you need to have a strong trip. Is that true?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A: Any substance can be deadly in high enough quantities, even water. That being said, mescaline is one of the safest drugs known. There have been no verified human deaths from mescaline ever, although K. Trout states that there is one unconfirmed (and unconfirmable) report of a person who died during military experiments with the drug, after receiving a 15 gram dose intravenously (or about 150-200mg/kg).

In experiments with rats, the LD50 for mescaline has been established in the range of 800-1200mg/kg orally.

Considering the human dose of mescaline is around 200-500mg orally, this means you would have to try very hard to take a fatal dose. It would be extremely unlikely to happen accidentally.

 

[Brewmaster]

Pazusu, If only everyone shared your philosophy; the world would be a much better place.

 

[tryptonaut]

Will there ever be a time that you learnt your lessons and stop living for the shroom, but you start living for the works of life on this planet?

You can never learn enough
I also tend to forget about a lot of stuff during normal life and I need to be reminded again and again.
I have also had trips where I suddenly learned the lesson I had been given during the last few weeks in normal life.

If you ask me "why do you still take mushrooms after you have had a few trips with high doses?" you might as well ask: "why do you still live?"
The answer would be the same, because it's interesting, because it's enjoyable to progress. You will never reach the point of total knowledge, you can learn until you die!

 

[HeartCore]

Brew: I will look into that mescalin story. I dont believe you right away, I am sure Terence Mckenna during one of his famous lectures talked about mescalin and the LD50. Contradictory with what you write here so to be continued.,.

Just read this:

Pas: Will there ever be a time that you learnt your lessons and stop living for the shroom, but you start living for the works of life on this planet?

Who lives for the shroom? You? Or are you assuming someone else?

Where does it say the shroom needs tribute? Or ritual? Or that it required some monkeybrain to eat them to just be in this world?

No one lives for the shroom, that remark is actually preposterous

What works do you mean? Isnt nature and the gifts in there the most beautiful work one can do?

 

[Pazusu]

Thanks for the reminders Tryptonaut and HC. Both right. Learn 'till you die. With and without the shrooms.
I remember a time sitting in the train overthinking my life. It was the time I had just started working. And after a year of drawing grey concrete bridges and tunnels, I thought: my God, am I going to do this my whole life? So this is it? At that moment I found I needed a purpose in life, for my mental health. And I picked wisdom to be my goal for the rest of my life. A never to be reached goal, I am no Einstein. But just by picking this goal, I know it worked for me since then. And I don't remember I ever felt that bored, senseless (destructive) feeling again.

That the shroom had come on my path now is no coincedence.

 

[Brewmaster]

Right now, it seems that I live for the shroom, the way I'm always going to check on them every hour.

There is no quest more noble than the quest for knowledge. I had a similar epiphany to Pazusu after I finished school. I had no idea why I had become so depressed once I left college but I eventually figured out that I was just bored because I stopped learning. About this time is when I started using psychedelics again. Drugs have nothing to do with my happiness or over-all well being, I've just started looking at them from a different point of view.

Heart, mesc really is the safest drug out there, there are no recorded deaths. And you cant believe everything T. McKenna says, alot of it is plain wrong or just speculation. I realize that he made many contributions to the psychonautical community and made alot of information available to people who were seaking it but the man had a BS in ecology and conservation. He was not a doctor nor a scientist, just a guy who used drugs and wrote about them.

 

[HeartCore]

Well I tend to disagree about what you say about Mckenna simply because the comment you make here, is a poetic argument and no more than that. Not meant personally but I've seen it before. People dissing Mckenna without giving a real reason, as you just did. No offense intended bro.

I may have misunderstood him, or maybe he was talking about another substance, I dont know, thats why I didnt post it as a fact.

Now if you have any example of where Terence was actually wrong, please share .

Edit:

Ok it seems you are completely correct about mescaline and that its a safe drug to take. I suspect I misunderstood Terence and he was talking about another substance. I will check it out sometime but not today.

Edit:

http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/180/hallucin.html

Deadly dose is about 30x the effective dose they claim here. Not sure if thats true, but if it is, is doesnt make it the safest drug, but still safe enough to experiment with.

 

[Brewmaster]

Most of T. McKenna's writings and theories were just wild speculations and crazy hippie bull shit. I can't say they were wrong, they're just not backed up with any scientific proof or evidence of reasearch and analysis which makes them sound like the nonsensical rants of a crazy person. One of the theories he's most famous for is his "Novelty Theory" which makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever " ..time is a fractal wave of increasing novelty which culminates dramatically in the year 2012."

Then there's his "Stoned Ape" theory which suggests that we walk on two legs, developed language and started raising our young to a mature age simply beacause apes started eating hallucinogenic mushrooms. I'm sorry but if you believe that the only reason that we evolved is because humans ate mushrooms then, well...

None of his writing is backed up by science which makes it very hard for me to take any of it seriously. I own the Mushroom Growers Guide written by McKenna but that's the only writing of his that I have any faith in. Try reading his Timewave Zero theory.

 

[HeartCore]

Most of T. McKenna's writings and theories were just wild speculations and crazy hippie bull shit. I can't say they were wrong, they're just not backed up with any scientific proof or evidence of reasearch and analysis which makes them sound like the nonsensical rants of a crazy person. One of the theories he's most famous for is his "Novelty Theory" which makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever " ..time is a fractal wave of increasing novelty which culminates dramatically in the year 2012."

Did you actually ever read invisible landscapes? The notion about 2012 is the least important info in that book which you would know if you read it. Its very easy to bash it, I know. I guess no one knows untill 2012.

I dont believe it myself but what I do find interesting, is that by using psychedelic mushrooms, Terence was presented with a mathematical structure, hidden in an ancient chinese set of symbols that magically, point to an end date that is the same end date, as the mayan calandar. The only thing Terence and the Mayas had in common, was that they had this taste for psilocybin mushrooms.

Then there's his "Stoned Ape" theory which suggests that we walk on two legs, developed language and started raising our young to a mature age simply beacause apes started eating hallucinogenic mushrooms. I'm sorry but if you believe that the only reason that we evolved is because humans ate mushrooms then, well...

You have probably never read the book about this and never listened to the 8 hour lecture he did. To date, I find this theory (and I know the details by heart), much more plausible in explaining how human consiousness evolved. It was just one theory, no one says its the only plausible theory but you.

Instead of just moving air (moving bits in this case), why dont you come with some arguments out of this theory and explain why they cant be true instead of making anyone with an open mind who looks at this theory, look like an idiot. Because thats all you do with these remaks.

None of his writing is backed up by science which makes it very hard for me to take any of it seriously. I own the Mushroom Growers Guide written by McKenna but that's the only writing of his that I have any faith in. Try reading his Timewave Zero theory.

I read invisible landscapes a number of times and love the wealth of information regarding out beloved enheogens, sjamanism and what not. Try reading it again I would say

And even an obvious hoax like, whats his name, this infamous pseudo archeologist with the german name, cant remember his name. He wrote books like where the gods aliens and stuff like that. His theories where taken up by science and more or less ridiculed.

I have yet to see any biologist or darwinist take up the glove and disprove Terence stoned ape theory once and for all. If you have any good explanation about how human consiousness came into existance thats better than 'pure chance'and cosmic rays, I back off.

But I know you wont

Peace

 

[Brewmaster]

No, I never know when to quit. And I appologize if I came off as condescending, I don't mean to bash anyone's beliefs.

I do find some of his writing interesting but it is far from scientific. I have read invisible landscapes and I feel it's one of his best.

But, as I said, HE provides no evidence to support any of his hypothesies. That's the reason no darwinist bothers to argue against his case, there's nothing to argue against. He just came up with an idea one day and said " Hey, maybe apes ate mushrooms and that's the reason our species evolved."

You could just as easily say that we evolved because we started eating our own shit. There's nothing to prove or dis-prove it. It's just a wild idea conjured up by someone with no scientific,sociologic, psychologic or archaelogic knowledge.

Personally, I believe we all descended from the first two humans, Adam and Eve. PRAISE JESUS!!!! Amen.

 

[Brewmaster]

To be fair, I've never actually heard the lecture, only read his summaries so I'm downloading the audio now.

Jesus loves you.

 

[HeartCore]

No, I never know when to quit. And I appologize if I came off as condescending, I don't mean to bash anyone's beliefs.

I do find some of his writing interesting but it is far from scientific. I have read invisible landscapes and I feel it's one of his best.

But, as I said, HE provides no evidence to support any of his hypothesies. That's the reason no darwinist bothers to argue against his case, there's nothing to argue against. He just came up with an idea one day and said " Hey, maybe apes ate mushrooms and that's the reason our species evolved."

You could just as easily say that we evolved because we started eating our own shit. There's nothing to prove or dis-prove it. It's just a wild idea conjured up by someone with no scientific,sociologic, psychologic or archaelogic knowledge.

Personally, I believe we all descended from the first two humans, Adam and Eve. PRAISE JESUS!!!! Amen.

He provides to my mind, very good arguments with the stoned ape theory. Very simple to follow and they make sense.

I dont say I believe it, to me its the most valid explanation as why humans are so different from animals. No Darwinist has come close to a valid explanation yet.

Did you ever read the entirey theory?

There is a shitload of indirect evidence and good solid arguments to his case.

Here's some nutshell info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna

But if you dont know the theory, you would do good to familiarize yourself with it before bashing it. If you did, I would love to hear exactly what points you find hard to believe

Edit:

You know, I'm not a believer or follower of Terence Mckenna. He would turn in his grave if I would say something else. Some wild theories he had, he was the first to admit that they where far fetched. As for the novelty theory, he always said, we will know for sure at 2012 right?

The stoned ape theory is one that he believed in himself a lot. And it makes sense, once you look at all the arguments, he build a very strong case. For one thing, I find his theory much more plausible than the notion that human consiousness evolved by chance or because of cosmic rays.

And there is more. I don't know if you are aware of this but appearently, the biggest mystery of evolution on our planet, is the almost doubling in size of the human brain within a milion years. There is no other organ or anything else in the fosil record, that did this in such a short amount of time. The stoned ape theory, solves this problem also. No other theory that I'm aware of, exists that deals with this in a way that its credible.