What is enlightenment ?

[Nomada]

after an eagerly anticipated moment there is always something that remains beyond our grasp.
Sometimes when I think I've experienced something akin to enlightenment and then its gone I've suddenly entered a very dangerous place. I want it back, feverishly! But I can't have it back, then I become frustrated, angered, and then I hurt myself again. I have, been blinded by the light. I may have even never ever been light, I just thought there was, and that was enough. And then its all shut off. away into the void of desperation.
You nailed me, druglessdouglas, lol.
Human beings can endure huge amounts of pain, hate, and blindness. But there are few things more complicated and difficult to handle than genuine happiness and so-called enlightenment; it makes you lazy and egocentric. I myself am, agonizingly lazy and egocentric I must admit, just because at some point or another I thought, for one moment, that I had it.

 

[psm]

What is enlightenment ?

A fresh lemonade with a good friend on a green hill on a sunny day, watching the beauty of the sky.

How would you define it ?

I would not dare to do that.

What hapens to enlighten someone ?

A mocking goat of rubber.

What do they have to do ?

Its more about "What would they have not to do"

what effects would it have on someone ?

The same as it would have on no one.

What paths are there to enlightenment ?

There is no path.

How would we recognise an enlightened person ?

If you're enlightened yourself.

 

[GOD]

PSM . Childish clever dick answers dont help and only show your ignorance and that you have never had the sort of experience/s we are talking about .

I think the answer from Drugless was realy good .

 

[Meduzz]

you have never had the sort of experience/s we are talking about

What do you mean GOD? The moment in a trip where you think you have all the answers? Life-changing non-drug experiences? Meditation? Nirvana-like trip moments? I don't recognise any of these as absolute enlightment...

 

[GOD]

Neither do i , as i`ve already said .

Read the thread , everyone was taking it seriously and being positive and constructive . Then someone came and proved his ignorance and blindness again .

 

[Meduzz]

Well it's a ladder to heaven that is being built. Stop focussing on goals and enjoy the building. I thought psm's post was amusing, it illustrates the mystery around enlightment and how hard it is to grab it.

 

[druglessdouglas]

ill tell you exactly what enlightenment is. it is this:

 

[druglessdouglas]

argue over that

this cracks me up. bickering over something which CANNOT be put into words. FFS its as bad as the bickering over ego death, lol fucking lol :lol:

im begging you all, get a grip, please

 

[druglessdouglas]

1. THE EMBODIMENT OF TAO

Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known.

To conduct one's life according to the Tao,
is to conduct one's life without regrets;
to realize that potential within oneself
which is of benefit to all.

Though words or names are not required
to live one's life this way,
to describe it, words and names are used,
that we might better clarify
the way of which we speak,
without confusing it with other ways
in which an individual might choose to live.

Through knowledge, intellectual thought and words,
the manifestations of the Tao are known,
but without such intellectual intent
we might experience the Tao itself.

Both knowledge and experience are real,
but reality has many forms,
which seem to cause complexity.

By using the means appropriate,
we extend ourselves beyond
the barriers of such complexity,
and so experience the Tao.

 

[st.bot.32]

it's interesting how in zen buddhism enlightenment is achieved when a person has a stroke of insight or a sudden realization. a practicing monk kicks over a bucket and suddenly he has achieved a state of enlightenment. in many other branches of buddhism enlightenment is a goal that many may not reach in their lifetime

for me (not a buddhist) as long as i am alive, learning, growing, it is more about the path. i totally like douglas take on it, keep your eyes open and appreciate the epiphanies as they occasionally happen along the way

 

[druglessdouglas]

2. LETTING GO OF COMPARISONS

We cannot know the Tao itself,
nor see its qualities direct,
but only see by differentiation,
that which it manifests.

Thus, that which is seen as beautiful
is beautiful compared with that
which is seen as lacking beauty;
an action considered skilled
is so considered in comparison
with another, which seems unskilled.

That which a person knows he has
is known to him by that which he does not have,
and that which he considers difficult
seems so because of that which he can do with ease.
One thing seems long by comparison with that
which is, comparatively, short.
One thing is high because another thing is low;
only when sound ceases is quietness known,
and that which leads
is seen to lead only by being followed.
In comparison, the sage,
in harmony with the Tao,
needs no comparisons,
and when he makes them, knows
that comparisons are judgements,
and just as relative to he who makes them,
and to the situation,
as they are to that on which
the judgement has been made.

Through his experience,
the sage becomes aware that all things change,
and that he who seems to lead,
might also, in another situation, follow.
So he does nothing; he neither leads nor follows.
That which he does is neither big nor small;
without intent, it is neither difficult,
nor don??wi?? e??e.??r ?> His task completed, he then lets go of it;
seeking no credit, he cannot be discredited.
Thus, his teaching lasts for ever,
and he is held in high esteem.

 

[st.bot.32]

change is in the very nature of the universe
if i claimed to have achieved enlightenment as if it were some kind of end goal in itself or permanent state, i perhaps would become blind to whatever forms of growth would have awaited me otherwise

 

[druglessdouglas]

but thats just the dogma i follow

 

[druglessdouglas]

it's interesting how in zen buddhism enlightenment is achieved when a person has a stroke of insight or a sudden realization. a practicing monk kicks over a bucket and suddenly he has achieved a state of enlightenment. in many other branches of buddhism enlightenment is a goal that many may not reach in their lifetime

for me (not a buddhist) as long as i am alive, learning, growing, it is more about the path. i totally like douglas take on it, keep your eyes open and appreciate the epiphanies as they occasionally happen along the way

that is the essence of it. few people remain enlightened. those who do are known as buddha which is a state, not a name. btw im a taoist, but the old school, red hood kind. not the black hood state sponsored kind most people are familiar with. i wont explain the difference, its not important.
i practice standing zen meditation almost every day. Google it

 

[BrainEater]

argue over that

this cracks me up. bickering over something which CANNOT be put into words. FFS its as bad as the bickering over ego death, lol fucking lol :lol:

im begging you all, get a grip, please

that's exactly my thoughts... it's pathetic... and it's pathetic how GOD always attacks people in the forum verbally, when he is not sure, whether to believe what they are saying or not.


i mean it's a good thing that GOD watches over the credibility of stuff people are saying, but sometimes his own credibility goes floating down the river ....


i'd say "buddha" is more something like a title, like jesus christ.


i want to practice zen meditation every day, but somehow i can't find enough time to do it :weedman:



peace :weedman:

 

[magickmumu]

argue over that

this cracks me up. bickering over something which CANNOT be put into words. FFS its as bad as the bickering over ego death, lol fucking lol :lol:

im begging you all, get a grip, please

That's why I stay out of this.
I don't want to be beaten with a stick. :wink:

 

[Nomada]

PSM . Childish clever dick answers dont help and only show your ignorance and that you have never had the sort of experience/s we are talking about .

I think the answer from Drugless was realy good .

That GOD, is neither positive nor constructive. Childish? are you serious? are you actually being adultocentric?

I believe the best answer by far has been magickmumu's on the ways of the stick.

:lol:

I'm serious. Although this is impossible for me at this point.

 

[psm]

PSM . Childish clever dick answers dont help and only show your ignorance and that you have never had the sort of experience/s we are talking about .

Read the thread , everyone was taking it seriously and being positive and constructive . Then someone came and proved his ignorance and blindness again .

How dare you judge me? How can you allege me of anything? You pompous prick! You would well deserve a "Fuck you!" at this point.


Sorry, but, I take it absolutely serious. And my answer is absolutely sincere and true. Just because I don't give a step-by-step Ikea-manual?

I am in "Enlightenment business" my whole life. I had quiet a lot apprentices and teach the "how to achieve it" for about 15 years now.
The truth is, that confusion clears your mind, which is why it is the best way to enlightenment. In a world, where most people are blinded by ignorance, their ego and the make-believes which are indoctrinated into us since early childhood, that is. Or do you think the zen koans are just there, because the zen masters were bored?

Don't accuse me, pick your own nose!

What you ask is to define something that has to be defined by experience and by everybody personally. It is like experiencing "god". A very intimate and extremely subjective thing. What is it? You wanna test people how far they are? Look for your answers in the experience of other (this can't be it, the ego is too big)? Or is it just a random "smart" subject for a thread?

Dude, it is not possible to explain enlightenment to someone, who wasn't there and even then, you could only describe a rudimentary depiction of a wholesome experience (Hence my answer to the last question).

While I really love this board, your "holier-then-thou"-attitude really makes me wanna go. If that's what you want (which, at this point I assume - and your presumed reason is not at all altruistic) then you are pretty close. Cm'on keep pushing!




*sigh* needed that...

 

[psm]

this cracks me up. bickering over something which CANNOT be put into words. FFS its as bad as the bickering over ego death, lol fucking lol :lol:

my point exactly!

 

[BrainEater]

nice!!!!!!!!! let it all out!!!!!!!!!! posting is WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol don't take that too seriously please


peace :weedman: