the forum

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What do you mean by unseparable.

"At this point in time," and I already answered that on page 14: "If this website degrades to a place where new members can be banned by popular vote or the whims of senior members, it will have lost all meaning to me."

Which member and for what reason?

If you want to ban Ahuayejnxs on account of being vague, I can give you examples of active members who have been much more vague and evasive. But present your case against Ahuayejnxs first.

[edit]Stop hiding your motives, please.

Read InnerMysteries post please. He sums it up perfectly.

 

[unseelie]

hello
ive been lurking for quite some time now.

this forum is not for me. the lunatics have taken over the hospital.

i for one will not be returning to this site. if the moderators cannot keep the trolls out then i wont be wasting my time here. i think any serious "psychonaut" will feel the same.
hello and good bye

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

In 1997 I first heard about an author named M.Scott Peck, a trained psychiatrist and author of books like The Road Less Travelled and The Different Drum. The first book I read (and heard) many times, the latter I read in 2000. My views on community, mentioned a couple of times in this thread, have been strongly influenced by what I've read about group dynamics in books like The Different Drum.

It might help shed light on my 'weird' behaviour if I quote some descriptions of and passages from that book.

In modern times, the idea of "community" has increasingly been expanded to include not just the place where one lives, but the web of relationships into which one is embedded. Work, school, voluntary associations, computer networks - all are communities, even though the members live quite far apart.

But according to psychiatrist and author M. Scott Peck, for any group to achieve community in the truest sense, it must undertake a journey that involves four stages: "pseudocommunity," where niceness reigns; "chaos," when the emotional skeletons crawl out of the closet; "emptiness," a time of quiet and transition; and finally, true community, marked both by deep honesty and deep caring.

Community building and organizing

In The Different Drum: Community-Making and Peace, Scott Peck argues that the almost accidental sense of community that exists at times of crisis can be consciously built. Peck believes that conscious community building is a process of deliberate design based on the knowledge and application of certain rules.[18] He states that this process goes through four stages:[19]

1. Pseudo-community: Where participants are "nice with each other", playing-safe, and presenting what they feel is the most favourable sides of their personalities.
2. Chaos: When people move beyond the inauthenticity of pseudo-community and feel safe enough to present their "shadow" selves. This stage places great demands upon the facilitator for greater leadership and organization, but Peck believes that "organizations are not communities", and this pressure should be resisted.
3. Emptiness: This stage moves beyond the attempts to fix, heal and convert of the chaos stage, when all people become capable of acknowledging their own woundedness and brokenness, common to us all as human beings. Out of this emptiness comes
4. True community: the process of deep respect and true listening for the needs of the other people in this community. This stage Peck believes can only be described as "glory" and reflects a deep yearning in every human soul for compassionate understanding from one's fellows.

More recently Peck remarked that building a sense of community is easy but maintaining this sense of community is difficult in the modern world.[20]

http://www.answers.com/topic/community

Alan: In the first sentence of The Different Drum you say, "In and through community lies the salvation of the world." You've done five years of community-building work since writing those words. Do they still hold true for you?

M. Scott Peck: Very much so. I had very little experience with community building when I finished the book in 1986. But I now have a great deal of experience, having worked with organizations and groups throughout North America and in the United Kingdom through the Foundation for Community Encouragement. I'm more convinced than ever of the truth of those opening sentences.

My second book, People of the Lie, is on the subject of evil. In the second chapter, on group evil, I quoted the Berrigans' saying that perhaps the greatest single problem we have is to figure out how to metaphorically "exorcise" our institutions. Recently, I realized that the Foundation is doing exactly that - by building community within those institutions.

Alan: What would "global community" look like? Is it even possible?

Scotty: Sure it is. We have built community in every walk of life and pretty much in every culture. We did a workshop last year for Jews, Christians, and Muslims to build community. It was so successful the Muslims have donated money to help us put it on again.

But the word global gets mushy unless it is related to a real problem. For instance, I can practically guarantee you that if you took five Anglos, fifteen Afrikaners, and thirty-five Blacks from South Africa and put them together in the same room and got them to work towards committing themselves to learning this "technology of community," that at the end of three or four days you'd have them coming out respecting each other, loving each other, and able to work profoundly effectively on whatever it is that they need to work on. Community doesn't look any different wherever it is. The problem is to get the people into the room.

Alan: And to keep them there through the four stages of pseudocommunity, chaos, emptiness - and finally community.

Scotty: Right. The only requirement we have is that people stay there and not walk out. Incidentally, another thing we've learned consistently, which I didn't know at the time I wrote The Different Drum, is that it's much easier to build community among unsophisticated people than among the sophisticated. A group of diplomats or psychiatrists are really tough, because you have to penetrate their sophistication to get to their innocence.

But I believe creating community is always possible, and when people see that you can attain community consistently - that there are rules and principles you can follow to get there - that fosters real hope.

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC29/Peck.htm

There can be no vulnerability without risk; there can be no community without vulnerability; there can be no peace, and ultimately no life, without community.
~ M. Scott Peck

Problems do not go away. They must be worked through or else they remain, forever a barrier to the growth and development of the spirit.
~ M. Scott Peck

Whenever we seek to avoid the responsibility for our own behavior, we do so by attempting to give that responsibility to some other individual or organization or entity. But this means we then give away our power to that entity.
~ M. Scott Peck

We cannot let another person into our hearts or minds unless we empty ourselves. We can truly listen to him or truly hear her only out of emptiness.
~ M. Scott Peck

An essential part of true listening is the discipline of bracketing, the temporary giving up or setting aside of one's own prejudices, frames of reference and desires so as to experience as far as possible the speaker's world from the inside, step in inside his or her shoes. This unification of speaker and listener is actually an extension and enlargement of ourselves, and new knowledge is always gained from this. Moreover, since true listening involves bracketing, a setting aside of the self, it also temporarily involves a total acceptance of the other. Sensing this acceptance, the speaker will feel less and less vulnerable and more and more inclined to open up the inner recesses of his or her mind to the listener.
~ M. Scott Peck

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/m_scott_peck.html

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

hello
ive been lurking for quite some time now.

You call two days "some time"? :lol:

Remember the forum rules state that "We do not appreciate it if you create multiple accounts for this or any other reason."

"Breaking any of the rules may result in a warning or in the worst case finding your account deleted immediately."

So here's the warning first: play fair.

 

[druglessdouglas]

:evil:

 

[druglessdouglas]

:evil:

 

[redhawk]

I was banned many times for forums for obscure reasons...

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 21:21 The sun has stopped (General Psychonautics)

I wonder why? :?

It is sad to see how this forum is falling into pieces.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

as this isnt a community but an internet forum i believe you will find your game will back-fire

Seems you didn't read the first sentence of the text I quoted, and forgot what you had read while studying psychology:

In modern times, the idea of "community" has increasingly been expanded to include not just the place where one lives, but the web of relationships into which one is embedded. Work, school, voluntary associations, computer networks - all are communities, even though the members live quite far apart.

Restin, Tiax and many others have referred to this place as a community, and About also describes this website as such.

if you dont delete me ill create multiple accounts

"Whenever we seek to avoid the responsibility for our own behavior, we do so by attempting to give that responsibility to some other individual or organization or entity. But this means we then give away our power to that entity."

 

[druglessdouglas]

:evil:

 

[mysticwarrior]

I was banned many times for forums for obscure reasons...

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 21:21 The sun has stopped (General Psychonautics)

I wonder why? :?

It is sad to see how this forum is falling into pieces.

I can tell you this... Follow the clues "In the sun has stopped thread". Just read, and don't reason or don't think at all. Try to be him, try to read trough his eyes, try to feel like you where him. And really it's fun, i finally understands why he laugh's his balls of. GOD, Drugless etc where just not able to give up reasoning. Therefore there did choose to be a sceptic and where not able to understand what Ahuaeynjxs was really saying.

Read it like a book, and don´t read the many reply´s and things will be more clear....

 

[mysticwarrior]

id cancel my account but there isnt an option. delete me, im serious
and stop trying to play mind games, you arent intelligent enough. you STILL believe in astrology FFS

Are you jealous?, your reply doesn't sound your even intelligent at all. It seems your unabled to think outside your own life/box.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

id cancel my account but there isnt an option.

You'd cancel your account as an act of violence, and then you'd create a new account within a couple of days or weeks, you've already proved yourself to be the kind of person to do that kind of thing. It's because of situations like these, that it's good that not everyone is capable of impulsively deleting their own accounts or banning others.

you STILL believe in astrology FFS

What does my astrological training have to do with this discussion, or with my intelligence? I don't recall you ever challenging my fascination with astrology before.

 

[mysticwarrior]

To Everyone who reads this post: When it comes to hypocrisy, I will speak my mind in a heartbeat as quickly as I would defend the weak from the stronger. This thread has not been a deterioration due to CM - it's been an all out fight to which Caduceus deserves apologies and very loving vibrations from all of you !

Nice said InnerMysteries! I think they have read to many science books

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Just read, and don't reason or don't think at all. Try to be him, try to read trough his eyes, try to feel like you where him.

The quotation I posted on the previous page describes what you've been doing perfectly:

"An essential part of true listening is the discipline of bracketing, the temporary giving up or setting aside of one's own prejudices, frames of reference and desires so as to experience as far as possible the speaker's world from the inside, step inside his or her shoes. This unification of speaker and listener is actually an extension and enlargement of ourselves, and new knowledge is always gained from this." ~ M. Scott Peck

We should all strive to become better listeners.

 

[Oknayd]

I can tell you this... Follow the clues "In the sun has stopped thread". Just read, and don't reason or don't think at all. Try to be him, try to read trough his eyes, try to feel like you where him. And really it's fun, i finally understands why he laugh's his balls of. GOD, Drugless etc where just not able to give up reasoning. Therefore there did choose to be a sceptic and where not able to understand what Ahuaeynjxs was really saying.

Read it like a book, and don´t read the many reply´s and things will be more clear....

If i would wanna read a book from the guy i would pick one up, or he can start his own little website. This is a forum, so interaction is key
I can handle a certain degree of vagueness, but too much abstractions is only bound to mess things up, especially if the person in question doesn't define abstractions logically.

By the way, this isn't about the rational/scientific thinking against irrational/intuitive/whathaveyou thinking

peace,

:edit: Ahuaeynjxs could use some listening and moderate his words, try some silence for a change, maybe you discover that all the words you spewed are indeed bull

 

[redhawk]

I can tell you this... Follow the clues "In the sun has stopped thread". Just read, and don't reason or don't think at all.

I was actually more referring to: why Ahuaeynjxs was banned from so many other forums. I think this thread makes it all clear :!:

 

[mysticwarrior]

He has done it before! He has written an book inside a forum... Experience it for your self.

It's because of that, he didn't communicate properly He didn't have to, because he had his own agenda.

 

[spice]

Have fun you all, this topic isn't even worth arguing about anymore.

I think many people's positions have been made quite clear.

Boycott.


(PS to 'others' : Don't speak in a veiled manner. Be MAN enough to say it.)

 

[mysticwarrior]

For Ahuaeynjxs, it didn't matter what GOD or Drugless said. Look closer and with attention to "The sun has stopped" thread. And you see, that GOD couldn't stand the fact, that he was unable to follow Ahuaeynjxs. Are you guys afraid of the dark? Are you afraid to become mentally insane? Are you scared of the unknown? Don't you like fantasy? Come on, use your imagination.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

:evil:

Douglas, from the beginning you've been part of a discussion that led to the current question. We all have played our part in this. To decide upon a ban, some people will have to read through the relevant threads. You've announced that you would create multiple accounts unless I delete your account. And now you've started editing your posts with :evil:. Until a decision is made regarding Ahuayejnxs, we need your posts to remain as they were written. That's why I froze your account for the time being, and as a response to your threat of purposefully violating the forum rules have given you an IP ban as well. These will be reversed when the evidence against Ahuayejnxs is no longer needed. There will be a discussion about the ban next Tuesday.