MAOIs FACTS

[Forkbender]

Doesn't the Harmala have an effect on its own, without the shrooms? And can't this effect be stronger because, well, you are tripping? So the mechanism might be the other way around: shrooms potentiate the MAO-I.

Just a theory, I know bullocks of brain and or gastrointestinal chemistry.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I haven't read all of this cause it is long,quotas, more quotas from chemist and scientific-brain-how it works explanation.
But I one book and on some pages on net I have find that shrooms( But only some spices contain DMT) so this 'powermet' of psilocin can be explained with MAOi of DMT with Peganum by liver so DMT by this way enters into brain. And this can also be explanation why someone doesn't have potentiating effects and someone have experienced it! But this is only my logical theory with poor evidence covers. When I again find that I will post links. Easy and logical explanation- DMT(now active) is chem which is making trip different(stronger in some ways of perception) from shroom trip. :?: :wink: 8)

 

[buffachino]

I’m going to get a head-start on GOD.

The only discrepancies in my explanation of the system in which MAO metabolises psilocin are:

•If the psilocin did remain bonded at the nn-dimethyl tail to the HO on the indole ring after transportation into the brain, then some other metabolic enzyme must decompose psilocin in the brain, other than an MAO compound; if so, why does psilocin bond with itself if it is not metabolised by MAO, is this an evasive reaction or simply an equilibrate chemical one, or are there specifically two diverse enzymes that break down different forms of the same compound. This still begs the question of why DMT and the vast majority of other tryptamines are metabolised by MAO in both the digestive system and brain, but not psilocin; is it the simple addition of the HO or the hydrogen bond it exerts on the tail of the compound in both cases? If so, why does MAO operate on all tryptamine resembling substances within the brain but not psilocin, which is so very similar? The only explanation to this would be that there is a completely separate metabolic enzyme that breaks down psilocin and other hydrogen bonded mono amine molecules when in the brain, but not the digestive system. This also means that mono amine oxidase only metabolise unbound mono amines whilst another specialised enzyme exists to specifically remove bound mono amines in the brain but does not exist in the gut.

•That there is in fact unprocessed DMT in certain species of mushrooms as a result of an unfinished chemical process to manufacture psilocybin/psilocin. Does any one have the actual chemical rout that mushroom enzymes use to metabolise other compounds into psilocybin/psilocin? This would show if it were possible for DMT to be produced as a by-product precursor to psilocybin/psilocin.

•That psilocin actually potentates the MAOI’s psychoactive effects because of the action of the psilocin itself. But then wouldn’t that mean that more receptor sites would be flooded with un-metabolised neurotransmitters, thus de-potentiating the psilocin because it is unable to reach the receptors; or is it that certain tryptamine substances have higher affinity to the receptors than others (which is true), meaning that psilocin and other dimethylated and or bonded tryptamines would always reach the 5-HT receptors before or after un-dimethylated and or bonded tryptamines. This would pose the outcome that either the psilocin or the resultant abundance of neurotransmitters from the inhibition of the MAO would dominate the receptors, thus having either marked or absent consequence on the intensity, or in fact downplaying either the psilocin or the MAOI’s psychoactive properties. This also contorts the reality that MAO exist specifically to break down all mono amines in the presynaptic cleft, thus it’s inhibition would take effect on the mono amine structures of both the neurotransmitters and the psilocin; consequently cancelling the less active compounds augmented effects or potentiating them in intensity and duration.

Think about some of these things as opposed to how mono amines are normally metabolised in the brain and digestive system by MAO; psilocin being a mono amine, bonded or not, and that inhibition of this enzyme (unless a separate one existed to specifically remove bonded or unbound psilocin) would potentiate and elongate psilocin’s effects.

Peace.

 

[GOD]

" I think one could probably better take a gram shrooms more then trying to potentiate a trip with P. Harmala."

Yup then you surely are what you eat !!!

WOW !!! I saw you had answered and put off looking at what you had said for 4 hours because i thought that i was maybe going to get FRYED for being an ignorant bastard !!!! As i said i have no knowlege of chemistry , i`m just lucky enough to have a few books lying around . I THINK that i understand what i`m reading but i dont KNOW if i`m right in what i make out of it . As soon as i get over my revulsion for MAPS for giving our money to police informers i will write to them again , this time a bit more scientificaly instead of like a dirty drug taking hippy like i did the first time , and ask them / the forum what they think . I am also going to write to D.Nichols and see what he has to say on the subject . But as you say just take a gramm more mushrooms and get realy beamed . That was the point that i wanted to make realy . All this mixing things together and taking strange chemicals is like shiting in a temple to me , allthough i have done more than a little mixing , abusing and over dosing allmost every posssible sort of "psychoactive" substance over the years . All that i learned is that the natural ones are enough if used properly . I just feel that people trying to get more than that means that they have not got enough respect for themselves or the world . For me abusing drugs was the expression of my mental and social problems , a sort of self punishment...... although it was sometimes fun in a lonly sort of way . I`ve spent most of my life in holes that other people had dug for me and pushed me into and permanently having to fight to keep my head above water and all the time i knew i was in paradise and that they were the ones that could / would not see it and were shiting it full . Maybe i hated myself and my life because i saw the things human beings do to the world and to themselves . I just wanted people to understand "Hey people ! we are in paradise , lets play with each other and LOVE each other , it makes things much easyer" and all they wanted was to be better , faster , richer , cooler and / or to blame other people / minoritys for their problems and have people to look down on .

Buff ,

I was pleased to see you are one of the people on the site that thinks about things , is honest and has the courage to say what you think and try to help . I also had a good laugh at your last posts . As a literary genius juggling with words is one of your talents .


I cant be bothered to go into every point that you have all made , but it all comes down to this :-

What level of chemical expertise have you atained ? . Are you all doctors ? , have you any kind of batchelor or masters degrees in chemistry ? , are you proffesors in chemistry ? Are you saying that you know nore about chemistry than J.Ott , C.Rätsch , D.Nichols , D.Mckenna and A.Shulgin ? Are you saying that they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about ? I`m not a chemist and i havent got any qualifications , and i`m not saying that MAOIs definately dont potentiate Psilocybin / Psilocin other than through toxicity and for psychelogical reasons . I`m just questioning if it can be posssible because i think that people making claims about psychoactive substances that have not been proved is one of the resons why the mainstream of society and the law makers are against the legalisation and sensible , objective , controlled , free use of those substances that we all want to see . I want clarification and that we show the world that we are responsible loving adults and not just the usual dirty , confused , thicko , hippy junkys who are a danger to the foundations of society , who want to fuck their daughters and fry their brains with "drugs" .

Love GOD

 

[GOD]

Game , set and match to me !!!!!

You can listen to Dennis Mckenna say that there is no point in taking Ayahuasca = MAOI with mushrooms . He says that people should take more mushrooms instead .

I`m not alergic to people saying i was right , or that they were wrong , or thank you for clearing this up . Remember it was the whole forum against me .................................. and I WON !!!!!

 

[Forkbender]

^Not exactly.

He says that you shouldn't take mushrooms to boost an ayahuasca trip (MAO-I + DMT) and that people just need to drink more ayahuasca.
This doesn't imply what you claim. So your 'win' isn't really 'won' yet.

Have you thought about my theory posted above? That harmaline/harmine have an effect on its own, boosted by the mushrooms (as psilocybine/psilocin cause hightened perception)???

 

[Meduzz]

I think it's pretty obvious that MAOi's do increase shroom trips.

1) Psilocybin / psilocin are monoamines, no matter how you twist the picture.
2) Dopamine (of which concentrations are high while tripping) is a monoamine.
3) Like Fork said, they have an effect on it's own, they also have the tryptamine basic skeleton, and alkaloids that resemble each other sometimes have a very potent synergy (like N-methylmescaline and N-acetylmescaline in peyote make the mescaline stronger, but are not interesting compounds on their own).

I have no experience with MAOi's and shrooms, but if someone experienced claims it makes the shrooms more potent, that seems pretty obvious...

We should do some real life research... double blind, because there is way more to trips than we know about brain chemistry right now.

Peace