Danger of Islam!

[Forkbender]

I will take complaints serious if people can back them up with evidence. There is too much drama about people feeling attacked because ideas/opinions are attacked. That's exactly what we are talking about here, isn't it? The freedom to critique ideas/opinions?!?! You and zezt are on the same line with muslim fundamentalists if you think GOD or anyone else for that matter hasn't got the right to burn an idea to the ground and dance on its ashes.

The cause of zezt's anger is clear in one of his posts:

How fukin dare you say MY posts are full of anger (though i AM angry now for sure. But in a controlled way. And I am right TO be abgry to) when that foul-minded slob, God trolls about here with his ignorant malice. He does not contribute in any intelligent way to any thread I have been at, AND every word is full of hate. But I see you turn a blind eye to HIM.

This complete injustice. Either sort him out or leave ME the fuck alone.

It is clear that he takes offence out of me saying his posts are full of anger. I don't find pointing that out patronizing. It is being honest about what I see is happening.

Saying someone's full of it could be considered patronizing, but telling me to find quotes/evidence for something he tries to prove isn't exactly "debating in a civil manner".

 

[Forkbender]

ad infinitum ad nauseum

amen

 

[chimp_masta_flex]

I am shocked and appaled that a thread like this even exists on a forum that is supposed to be populated by 'intellectuals'.

Islam is no different to any belief system, a few tossbags are too stupid to question themselves, think they are elevated from normal morality by a divine purpose and hurt people.

This is not something inherent in islam its something that comes from the kind of close minded bigots that create threads like this.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yup exactly... Islam is no different than any other religion, theres always crazy people who don't understand a thing.

I made it clear, so much that it hurt my eyes that there is real jews, who think the bible is meant to learn from their ancestors error and fix their karma by leaving a peaceful community life.

We all know those people for christ sakes ! People laugh at them, they look like nerds and wouldn't harm a fly ! So it is true for many muslim, if they read the book , in order, they realise that they must not even trust the rest of the book, because the fake muslim might have added to it.

The warning is crystal clear !

People laugh at them too ; they think oh look at the poor guy who prays all day long and who will cry if he gets his bread stolen.

But the cameraman finds this boring ; he wants to see the more spicy stuff that turns your guts up and down, the rollercoaster emotional stuff who makes you yell and ridicule yourself on static messageboards.

So how can talk about these people while we forget the guys in white robes who turn in circles for hours ?

Some people owe apologies here, I shall be waiting. Oh and Forkbender, don't you feel challenged again, I was aware of the change of "power" on this board and remained silent, thus gave you the jurisdiction to patronize liberally.

I don't rule through power obviously. I am that I am.

 

[Pariah]

... Wow, this thread hasn't died yet? I must have stopped receiving email notification...

Have I missed anything?

...Perhaps not if the thread still has no end in sight 15 odd pages after I last posted.


Did anyone ever try to formalise an intelligible argument from the Islam bashing camp, or too busy bickering?

 

[chimp_masta_flex]

they were probably too busy masturbating over the third reich i think...

 

[Pariah]

Better watch what you say, or someone will start a holocaust denial thread! ...although that wouldn't really fit very well with the Zionist theme here, I could see it happening... if it hasn't already.

 

[chimp_masta_flex]

lol, it wouldnt surprise me with some of the shit thats being talked on here

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

:nod:

:smoke:

 

[zezt]

Now you add insult to injury by patronizing me.....? well done bro

Where? When? All YOU do is BLAME BLAME BLAME. I'm tired of your attitude.

ohhh we know dear. He can do no wrong in your eyes. hence thats why the foul-minded slob continues his sorry business here.

[quote:3g8o5tjo]
I notice the forum is asking for help? Well you could do with removing ignoreamouses who dont know how to debate in a civil manner without trolling and flaming for one! It tends to put the intelligent people off who are serious about what they want to explore, and can DEAL with differences of opinion without spewing abuse, and provocation.

Are you serious? I thought you wasn't discussing opinions, but socalled facts in this thread?

ps: GOD also spoke to MAX FREAKOUT like a piece of shit too, a while back.

Find the quotes yourself. I dont see why I should.

Because YOU want him to shut up. I'm not here to do your argumentation. Why is it everytime you are asked to back something up you turn the tables around and say the burden of proof is on the other person. You're full of it, zezt.[/quote:3g8o5tjo]

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here you go moderator Forkbender. This is the post I posted several pages back:

I have been meaning to mention this terrible news report for quite a few days now. Especially to this thread, as it really is relevant for what i, and mainly CM, are saying--pointing out.

Also just before I link it, in a few posts back I showed a link about reaction to terrorist beheading videos from the Muslim communities worldwide, which was really not much.

Now, about 3 weeks ago, I saw two beheading videos for the first time in my life. Ie., I have never ever experienced watching a video like this. I was reluctant, but i just did. The first one was about neo nazis in Russia and they behead a young male who they had captured and bound and gagged with tape.

The second one is from 2004, and is Eugene (have forgot his last name for the moment) who is beheaded by Islamic terrorist.

This was horror. Total horror which trauamatized me deeply. I kept getting flashbacks and waves of nausea for days and days after

Anyway, this is link about a muslim male who beheads his wife for serving him divorce papers. The complete irony being that he promoted the idea of Islam being a peaceful religion!

Also, the media was very slow to respond which reflects what we are saying about the denial and fear to condemn Islam and its shariah law!

http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-righ ... -beheaded/

"In the well-off quiet Buffalo suburb of Orchard Park, NY a woman was brutally decapitated at the young age of 37.

Her crime? Serving her abusive husband with divorce papers.

Justice? For this wife and mother of two – not likely.

Aasiya Hassan, the Muslim woman in question, was no stranger to her husband's violent streaks. After multiple episodes of domestic violence, she filed for divorce in early February to escape her husband, Muzzammil Hassan's, heavy hand. She also obtained an order of protection that barred him from their home, but still she was not safe.

On February 12, 2009, Hassan, 44, brutally beheaded his wife and then went to the Orchard Park Police station to report her death. Police found her at lying in the hallway of the offices of his TV studio – her head near the rest of her body.

Hassan now sits in jail facing second-degree murder charges. If convicted he faces up to life in prison – but he gets to keep his head.

Although vicious and unjust, reporting of this crime has been slow and lax by the media. It wasn't until five days after the incident that the Associated Press or CNN released any stories of this should-of-been news breaking crime.

Their coverage, however, is disappointing and down right infuriating. The AP story, for example, opens with the irony of the crime – the fact that the man who beheaded his wife is also the founder of Bridges TV, the TV station he created to challenge and counter Muslim stereotypes. Fox News also reported on the crime, eventually, but focused on whether Aasiya's death was considered an honor killing or not.

What about outrage at the beheading of an innocent woman (or anyone for that matter) in this day and age? How about a little bit of anger at the repeated abuse of this innocent woman and the police's inability to protect her time and time again? Honor killing or domestic violence and all irony aside it all boils down to one thing – murder.

If I hadn’t stopped by one of my favorite blogs, I might have missed the news altogether myself. Luckily, the blogosphere exploded with the news and outrage at the story and lack of coverage.

NOW also released a statement on the crime, calling the media out for its silence and expressing outrage for Aasiya’s untimely and horrific death.

"NOW New York State is horrified that Erie County DA, Frank A. SeditaII, has referred to this ghastly crime as 'the worst form of domestic violence possible.' The ridiculous juxtaposition of ‘domestic’ and ‘beheading’ in the same journalistic breath points up the inherent weakness of the whole ‘domestic violence’ lexicon.

What is 'domestic' about this violence? NOW NYS President Marcia Pappas says ‘it is high time we stop regarding assaults and murders as a lover's quarrels gone bad. We further demand of lawmakers that punishments fit crimes. We of NOW decry the selective enforcement of assault laws and call for judicial enforcement of our mandatory arrest policy, even when the axe-wielder is known by his victim.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

*slaps forehead*

This is strangely reminding me of the "save the mercury intoxicated whales which are suffering too much and thus they throw themselves on beaches" And the people makes you sign petitions to get funds to they can get put back into the sea.

Nonetheless I'm not judgemental about your motives and agree a murder should be universally prosecuted, no matter the reason. So there, happy ?

You can be sure my guardians will be around to assist that he gets a fair trial like anyone else.

Is this really all that you're about ? Because you don't want to waste anyone's time around here, I'm taking everything into account.

 

[restin]

Who said I felt personally attacked?

I meant that I feel/think that you feel attacked in your personal belief and system of thought.

 

[Forkbender]

And this is GOD's abusive post in reply:

"zest , did you have a wank when you watched those films and when you posted your posts ?"
_________________
FORUM RULES:
Mutual respect
Mutual respect between all forum users. This means you won't ever start a discussion with someone else while making advantage of someone else's behavior, possible physical or mental handicaps, race or gender. Do not actively react to personal remarks by others and refrain from posting stuff solely to offend people.

Now over to you. What are you going to do about this matter?

How does GOD's quote violate this rule? Because that is not clear to me. Why is it abusive? Because he used the word 'wank'? You need a stronger case for me to take actual action. Besides, GOD asked you personally how his remark was offensive and you never answered that question.

 

[Forkbender]

Latest Dutch News:

Man achter anti-Darwinfolder met dood bedreigd

URK - Kees van Helden, de initiatiefnemer van de Evolutie of Scheppingbrochure, is vanwege zijn folder met de dood bedreigd. De Urker stapte naar de politie, maar deed nog geen aangifte. Dat zei Van Helden dinsdag.

De Urker kreeg naar eigen zeggen tientallen grievende e-mails. In enkele daarvan wordt hij met de dood bedreigd. 'Dood aan Kees', was de strekking van één van de mailtjes. Ook kreeg hij onvriendelijke telefoontjes, maar hoeveel wil hij niet zeggen.

Van Helden deed nog geen aangifte omdat de bedreigingen niet echt concreet zijn. ''Als er een concrete bedreiging komt, overwegen we wel om aangifte te doen.'' Een woordvoerder van de politie zei dinsdag dat de politie de situatie in de gaten houdt.

De folder van Van Helden stelt de evolutieleer van Darwin ter discussie. In acht pagina's proberen de samenstellers lezers ervan te overtuigen dat de evolutieleer van Darwin technisch niet te bewijzen is en daarom net als het scheppingsverhaal gebaseerd is op geloof. Een groep van dertig christelijke organisaties steunt de campagne.

summary in English:

Kees van Helden, who spread a flyer saying that creationism works better than evolution, was threatened. He received dozens of emails with insults and a few with death threats. He also received a few phone calls. Because there was no 'concrete' threat, he didn't file charges at the police. His flyer supposedly 'proves' that Darwinian evolution is faith based just like religion. He is supported by 30 Christian organizations.

Stupid atheists!! We should ban the Origin of Species and stop publishing scientific texts, because they clearly instigate violent behaviour!

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

:nod: :unibrow: :smoke:

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I meant that I feel/think that you feel attacked in your personal belief and system of thought.

You must have missed all of my posts on the matter then, or seriously misinterpreted them. Yes, I sometimes feel it personally when other members are bullied because I have or had similar views, and true, I've been upset about some of GOD's behavior and words aimed at me, but I've also been trying to look at the situation as an impartial observer (especially in my former position of site admin), and come to the same conclusion certain new members have come to: GOD's input is not condusive to the exploration of ideas and theories.

His positive contributions are appreciated, but as far as I'm concerned far outshadowed by his negativity in the realm of psychonautic exploration and friendly interaction. He's spoiling the behavior of some of you too. Rather than a community, you've become a clique, an elite. And rather than keeping an open mind at all times, you've 'taken sides'. I'm not just saying that, it's been a very sad thing to witness these past few months. It became very strong when you all ganged up on new member Ahuaeynjxs, and again when this thread was started. And not just ganging up: really becoming unable to read what someone is trying to convey, and cheering eachothers derisions, no matter how unjust, inaccurate, vague, gross, offensive, shaming, bigoted or judgmental.

I'm not expecting any of you to understand me though. I hope the man behind GOD understands at least some of it. And some of the silent readers perhaps.

Would you please leave the forum, GOD? Though you and many of the current members may have a different impression, you really don't belong here. You're ruining the atmosphere with the expressions of your conditioning, the example you set. The psychonaut url would be a great place to discuss entheogenic initiation. But we need a peaceful, respectful atmosphere for that. With your childish attitude, and the kind of people you 'attract' and encourage, that will never happen. You're a clever man, but not enlightened, nor anywhere near enlightenment.

I have no problems with people who only visit the forum to read and participate in the chemistry section, or the art section, but I do take issue with your type of bullying behavior, all over the forum, in GREAT quantities. Yes, you're very 'aware' of the forum rules, you can cite them any time, but you're still ruining things here. Please create your own website, as I suggested before, and start your own forum there.

And yeah, I should do that too for my ambitions, but as most here know, I probably will. I'm not so sure about your future. You seem determined to spread the word of Hawkins here until the end of your days. I think Ahuaeynjxs will agree that this may be somewhat risky, but then again, he might disagree and think I've lost my mind, or that I'm just misjudging the entire situation, and that I should behave like a grownup.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong here and this psychonaut website doesn't necessarily have to be a place where genuinely openminded individuals discuss things in a calm and respectful way, and not be too demanding of newcomers. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned in that regard, expecting too much from modern people, psychonauts in particular. That is a possibility. I think one might also rightly ask if Caduceus Mercurius belongs here, because he too is a dominant person on the forum, and he has some weird views. I understand any thoughts and feelings you may have in that regard. You may have enjoyed lots of my contributions in the past, but started feeling less and less enthusiastic as time went by. I can imagine this post is the final straw for some of you. But this is basically how I feel about it, might as well share it with you all. I'm quite often right about these things.

Anyway, think about it.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

How does GOD's quote violate this rule? Because that is not clear to me. Why is it abusive?

The metaphor of a person masturbating, i.e. pleasuring himself, over the decapitation of innocent people, is very offensive and utterly disgusting.
Why do I have to explain this to you?

 

[restin]

There are several members that see this threat as very offensive, including me. I understand your concern about the islam but not zezt's. What you may not realise is that you are taking sides yourself. You cannot agree with the ones that disagree with the creation of the threat - obviously and try to adjust to zezt. Zezt said this himself "are you with them?" he asked clearly stating that there are the "he" and the "them". Zezt also did not go into the discussions and the counter-arguments and only felt attacked. I made several posts on-topic which were not answered. The creation of the threat itself is, as I see it, xenophobic. The consideration of some people trying to reform islam is interesting and philosophic - is tradition better than progress? But showing zionist movies where people are jumping from the twin towers and then blaming a religion for it is absolutely inappropriate. What do questions about beheadings have to do with the critique of a religion? I also remember zezt's 911-threat where he in a mad rush started selling some conspiracy videos for truth in a life-and-death struggle. It very reminds me of this threat.

But that's not the point of your post. I will think about what you said. I am sometimes pained about how GOD reacts to some people's posts,yes, I agree but in several cases, as this threat I agree with him.

 

[Forkbender]

The metaphor of a person masturbating, i.e. pleasuring himself, over the capitation of innocent people, is very offensive. Why do I have to explain this to you?

But WHY is it offensive? You just repeat what zezt said in different words, you didn't explain anything. Why is this 'metaphore' (I don't see the metaphore in there, BTW) offensive and posting videos of beheadings and linking them to Islam as a whole instead of one or a few lunatics is not offensive?

I don't think GODs post was 'solely to offend' (as per the forum rules), I think it was clear from the discussion that evolved from this that he didn't mean it just to offend, but was questioning what zezt had to say about the decapitations and his motives for saying it.

One more thing that still bothers me in this whole discussion. You are all for free speech and against the sensitivity for criticism in the islamic worldview, but as soon as GOD speaks out with something that offends you for a change, why do you suddenly turn this all around and pretend that his criticism should stop? Why are you turning into extremists that don't want opposing opinions to question every move you make? Practice what you preach for a change! If you are so open-minded, than why can't someone tell you that your opinions are bullshit?

 

[Forkbender]

long post.

You know I disagree with your view on GOD, but I have had at least one heated argument with him in the past as well. He made me angry and I was irritated because he didn't see my point while I was busy not seeing his. If you just notice how you react to something someone says, you might miss what he says. If you let it go for an instant, you notice that it is not important to be right, just important if you are willing to learn from your mistakes. This discussion, for example, is getting out of hand and heading for prejudice and hate. The questions I have been posting since last night where aimed at trying to get people to think about why they are angry and why they respond to each other in a way that is so hateful. I think we should stop dividing ourselves in camps, because we all have our own opinion/viewpoint/consciousness/memory/experience and we all have to bring something into any discussion. There is no us and them, it's just us and we have to deal with it together. I am taking responsibility for the way I react to others. If I do something wrong, please tell me. If GOD does something wrong, please tell him. If you do something wrong, I will tell you, because there is no need to be PC all the time. You can only learn if you are willing to see your own mistakes and if others point them out to you.