Danger of Islam!

[zezt]

Look, say your dad, uncle, friend, had told you they had seen a video of a man being slaughtered, and the experience had deeply upset them. And then they say how someone said what GOD said. What would you think? How would you feel. Would you patroniize them and make out that they hadn't really been insulted? Would you defend the person that had said that abuse to your dad?

Who are you trying to kid, kiddo?

Who's patronizing here?

You, because you act like child. Also, heard the expression 'you cant kid a kidder', kiddo?

[quote:16gcf9o3]I don't know about you, but if something deeply moves me and someone makes a remark about it that conflicts with my experience or suggests it was different, I don't really care. My feelings are mine and I don't care what someone I don't personally know (like you and GOD) thinks or says about it.

That is not the point. And up to now you haven't answered my question to you. You are dodging it.
AND also we are talking about the rules of this forum? 'No abuse'. Not---you dictating what abuse must mean, as though another person doesn't know. Or you must 'take it like a man' or whatever. You are just moving goalposts and not doing your job properly.

If you feel insulted by something, should we change everything so you feel comfortable? And the next time? And the next? This isn't your world alone, zezt, it is everybody's and we are bound to get some insults along the way. It is up to you to take things personally or not.

So dont have rules. Take down your rule guide, because they mean nothing,,,,,,obviously. Well, according to you they dont. Don't pretend to have rules and then fuck around when a member here come to you with stuff you SHOULD deal with.

A man came to the buddha to see if what people said was true. He was insulting him and yelling in his face. The buddha just sat there. The next day, he tried again, shouting harder and saying more offensive things. The buddha just sat there with an everlasting smile on his face. The third day he tried again, shouting his lungs out and yelling and screaming and using all the horrible words he could think of. The buddha just sat there. Then at the end of the day he asked the buddha what was up. The buddha said: "If you give a person a gift and he doesn't accept it, to whom does the gift belong?"

Right I see oh master. Thank you for the lesson............not
Why not take down your rules and put that in its place. Then if anyone complains of abuse by another member, you just copy and paste it?

[quote:16gcf9o3]Are you without any sense?

Please stop insulting me!![/quote:16gcf9o3][/quote:16gcf9o3]

So now your takin the piss as well. Rubbing salt into the wound?

Please answer the question I asked Forkbender?

 

[Mycophile]

A ridiculous thread this is. Please close it or something...

 

[Forkbender]

Zezt.

If I am wrong, I would like you to point out where and show me why. Don't just throw mud around, because that doesn't help anybody.

I don't know which of your questions you want me answering, because there are so many questions that I cannot all address, so please repeat.

The way I responded to you is a reflection of the way you are talking to me and others in this thread.

I'm still waiting for reasons why you think I should undertake actions against GOD. You just repeat what you said earlier in different words, so it still doesn't add up to me.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I don't know which of your questions you want me answering, because there are so many questions that I cannot all address, so please repeat.

I wondered about this myself, so looked back and noticed you had not answered this question yet:

Look, say your dad, uncle, friend, had told you they had seen a video of a man being slaughtered, and the experience had deeply upset them. And then they say how someone said what GOD said. What would you think? How would you feel. Would you patroniize them and make out that they hadn't really been insulted? Would you defend the person that had said that abuse to your dad?

You did reply with this paragraph:

I don't know about you, but if something deeply moves me and someone makes a remark about it that conflicts with my experience or suggests it was different, I don't really care. My feelings are mine and I don't care what someone I don't personally know (like you and GOD) thinks or says about it.

Zezt asked you a question about GOD's gross insult ("did you have a wank when you watched those videos") and you answer by talking about your views on "a remark that conflicts with my experience or suggests it was different".

Okay. What constructive criticism would you have for GOD, then?

There's no need to turn this around now, as I'm not constantly throwing empty one-liners at him. I've already written numerous detailed paragraphs about this issue, or any issue we might philosophically disagree upon. I'm not getting that kind of detailed and mature feedback from him.

So why are you still offended?

I'm being offended any time he speaks offensively to me, there's nothing I can change about that. Of course I do not always feel offended by him, while at other times I do feel bad when he (unwittingly?) offends others.

 

[Forkbender]

Caduceus, why are you answering questions I pose to zezt all the time?

I still don't think GOD was insulting anyone, because he was asking a question, not saying zezt wanked off during those videos. He was expressing his contempt for mentioning them by exaggeration.

Then again:

Look, say your dad, uncle, friend, had told you they had seen a video of a man being slaughtered, and the experience had deeply upset them. And then they say how someone said what GOD said. What would you think? How would you feel. Would you patroniize them and make out that they hadn't really been insulted? Would you defend the person that had said that abuse to your dad?

I don't think the situations are comparable as both parties here have been involved in a debate for 30 pages before said event occured, and the event evolved naturally from what was said before. That being said, I do think it would be a bit weird for someone to say such a thing without prior debate, but even if this would happen, I think I would dismiss the comment on the ground of not fitting with my experience and wouldn't pay much attention to it. I wouldn't patronize them, I'd just tell them, like I did here, that one doesn't need to take things so personally. I have a bigger chance of teaching my friend/uncle/dad something than a random stranger. Would I defend the other person? Probably not seeing that there's no mention of previous debate, but if it was part of something bigger, like it is over here, I would.

Zezt has been posting texts that at least some of the members over here find very insulting and were offended by them, so did GOD, so did you and so did I. And so what? I see these events as opportunities to learn things about myself. If I'm offended/insulted by something someone says I ask myself why and try to see how someone's opinions can hurt me. Usually I like to look at what I have control over instead of what is out of my reach and I try to understand how my reaction to something is more important than the initial cause of it. I think you do as well, and I think GOD does that as well. How can you learn if you aren't willing to go outside of your comfortzone and be offended once in a while? How can you grow without turning shit into flowers?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

A ridiculous thread this is. Please close it or something...

I think if we close this one, another thread will be created as soon as there's another news item about Geert or a certain incident. Of course, that thread might have a better start, but would repeat most of what has been discussed here.

If anyone wants to close this thread because having "Danger of Islam!" on the frontpage all the time isn't good for the website, I have no objections. The name of the thread could also be changed to "Concern over Islam".

 

[Mycophile]

The only thing you guys are doing at the moment is a childish bitchfight about who said what...

Come on, this is the most stupid discussion on Psychonaut I have read since day 1 of Psychonaut. And Allah damn it big time, it has 38 pages!!!

The only danger of Islam is that they hardly use any psychonautic stuff at all. And they should...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

And Allah damn it big time, it has 38 pages!!!

This was to be expected. Threads relating to religion have always become many pages long. Admittedly, this one is exceptional. Perhaps because Islam is an exceptional religion?

The only danger of Islam is that they hardly use any psychonautic stuff at all. And they should...

Yes!!! And it might be the root of all the other problems!

The only thing you guys are doing at the moment is a childish bitchfight about who said what...

Well, restin and I were discussing Islam only a few posts ago. And I intend to stay on topic (and avoid bitchfighting, as well as arguing for argument's sake) as much as possible.

 

[Mr.Smith]

bigotry is bigotry. this is a hate thread

 

[Mycophile]

There's way too much intelligence on this forum for a thread like this.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Caduceus, why are you answering questions I pose to zezt all the time?

I wasn't aware of that. I just expressed what had struck me personally, zezt might well have had another question in mind.

I still don't think GOD was insulting anyone, because he was asking a question, not saying zezt wanked off during those videos. He was expressing his contempt for mentioning them by exaggeration.

How could merely mentioning the videos be contemptable? Is watching them in and of itself contemptable? One's motivations might be contemptable, but merely watching them isn't. I didn't see zezt enjoying this discussion or any of the issues mentioned, so why would he have enjoyed these videos?

Did GOD's statement contribute to the discussion? I don't think so. Did those who point out that those videos are all from war zones contribute to the discussion? I'd say so. You can disagree with someone, without interrupting the flow of the discussion. GOD's disgusting remark simply created a sidetrack, as similar remarks have done before.

I don't think the situations are comparable as both parties here have been involved in a debate for 30 pages before said event occured, and the event evolved naturally from what was said before.

I agree with the first part of your statement, but I don't agree it "evolved naturally". It only occured naturally because to exaggerate is part of GOD's nature. His tendency to exaggerate was clear from the beginning of this thread, when he tried to argue that anti-islamicism is the same as racism, and that by derivation people like zest and CM are racists.

Zezt has been posting texts that at least some of the members over here find very insulting and were offended by them, so did GOD, so did you and so did I.

I said promoting Geert Wilders was a bad start, but I never said it was insulting or offensive. If I remember well, even Dr.Leospace was considering to host the Fitna movie on this site (or at least its server) when it was banned from TV and YouTube last year.

How can you learn if you aren't willing to go outside of your comfortzone and be offended once in a while? How can you grow without turning shit into flowers?

Again, this is not about me or zezt feeling offended, but about someone refusing to engage in meaningful debate, and instead repeatedly resorting to sarcasm and insults.

 

[Shroomlady]

You are really like a bunch of kids....... Someone is refusing this...Why are you doing this.... He said that..... He insults me..... Why don' t you answer my question.....He started offending me..... Guys, please take a look at the way you talk to each other.

I know women can be mean to each other but you men are worse.


Please, let's close this tread and if you really want to talk further about Islam (that WAS the topic... wasn't it?) You can always open a part 2. Please?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Please, let's close this tread and if you really want to talk further about Islam (that WAS the topic... wasn't it?) You can always open a part 2. Please?

If this thread is closed no one will want to start another discussion about Islam soon (I carefully formulated my views in this thread, I'm not going to do that again), but the discussion over how we communicate will spill into other threads. I think we might as well continue that discussion here.

What do you think of my suggestion to simply rename the thread "Concern over Islam"? Zezt might not appreciate that, but it would be better than closing the topic altogether.

 

[Forkbender]

I said promoting Geert Wilders was a bad start, but I never said it was insulting or offensive.

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to people who were amazed that such a thread existed on this site from the get-go. Read the first couple of pages and see how many people think this is all bs.

Again, this is not about me or zezt feeling offended, but about someone refusing to engage in meaningful debate, and instead repeatedly resorting to sarcasm and insults.

Are you talking about zezt or GOD? I know that it must be the latter for you, but zezt isn't really engaging in meaningful debate either. Yet you are defending him. Partisanship is destroying this community.

Listen. You, CM, cannot change GOD. GOD is GOD. He will always be the way he is, a bastard with a big heart. You can hate his sarcasm or insults or whatever, but that doesn't change him, it only makes YOU more resentful. That doesn't help you and it doesn't help anyone else. It only makes matters worse.

I may be prejudiced in this discussion, though, as I don't think zezt is really contributing anything to this site. If he chooses to point these things out to me in a way that I understand, I will accept them. If he explains to me why, from his point of view, he felt insulted and/or offended and isn't himself insulting or offending (against the opinion of some members), I will look at the situation as objectively as I can.

 

[GOD]

This is getting sick , caduceus stop having a go at me in one thread after another , stop makeing baseless acusations against me and stop missusing the forum for your vendeta . If you want to slag me off there is a thread that i opened specialy for professional moaners and whiners like you where you can stir your shit without poluting one thread after another with your poison .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Zezt's zesty approach differs quite a bit from mine. I haven't been defending zezt, only agreeing with him that a certain remark was disgusting and offensive. Before that I was simply arguing (like him) that there's no reason why we should avoid discussing possible "dangers" of "Islam". It's not necessarily xenophobic, racist, hateful etc. It can be, but doesn't have to be, especially on a forum like this.

 

[Shamanita]

I didn't read whole this thread, but there are the same types of thread (about the "danger" of the islam) in many forums i visit...

I think that is an evidence that Bushes so called "war on terror" has worked... He turned many many people into islam-haters.

I do see a threat in those radical imams. The radical imams & moslimfundamentalists are not better or wose than Wilders or Bush, all they do is making people hate another culture... That's NOT the way to global peace. If you act radical, i can ensure you, that others will act radical to you. action and reaction, that's how simple it is...

The western culture itself is a scam too. So don't point just at one other culture. The western culture exploits people for many decades... So we are not better, nor worse, than any other culture at all....

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

This is getting sick , caduceus stop having a go at me in one thread after another , stop makeing baseless acusations against me and stop missusing the forum for your vendeta . If you want to slag me off there is a thread that i opened specialy for professional moaners and whiners like you where you can stir your shit without poluting one thread after another with your poison .

I already answered there that I can only point out what bothers me in the threads where the incidents happen.

 

[Forkbender]

I didn't read whole this thread, but there are the same types of thread (about the "danger" of the islam) in many forums i visit...

I think that is an evidence that Bushes so called "war on terror" has worked... He turned many many people into islam-haters.

I do see a threat in those radical imams. The radical imams & moslimfundamentalists are not better or wose than Wilders or Bush, all they do is making people hate another culture... That's NOT the way to global peace. If you act radical, i can ensure you, that others will act radical to you. action and reaction, that's how simple it is...

Well said.

 

[GOD]

" where the incidents happen."

You cant stop spreading your poison can you . You labeling nothing ofensive as an incident just shows how desperate you are to try to cause me trouble . Maybe you and others should ask themselves why you react to me in such an over proportionate way and start being honest about it .