where is the soul ?

[Forkbender]

Forkbender, if you don't talk and don't think, you must be deaf not to listen. If I don't smear my shit on the walls, i'll never know what other people will smell.

Or you can see through the bullshit everybody else throws in your face. Thinking does not equate awareness.

 

[Meduzz]

Meduzz, why should our soul be different from a bacteria's ? From what i understood of your thoughts, you claimed that the soul was a consequence of chemical reactions. Cities haven't got chemical reactions. We, bacteria, dogs and lizards have chemical reactions, so, why shouldn't we have the same soul ? I enjoy your way of thinking.

It's not just chemical reactions. ANY input-output system. Any ability of an object for action obeys to internal laws created by the system itself. And cities do have chemical reactions, because they consist of us.

 

[????????]

why has the soul created the illusion that it is special

why do you think it has? I think you are overlapping soul and ego...

also, soul is but an abstract concept so it's weird to ask where it is, in the same way it's odd to ask where do you feel remorse or grief... I think your question is interesting indeed but in the end we are talking about ideas and our conscious persona that ponders about these things is an idea too, composed by the brain, so it's a bit like wanting to find out what your tongue tastes like...

 

[Maru]

Maybe the question should be "where is the body" ?
Physicians are trying to define/understand univers's laws with xxx dimensional mathematics. Maybe they are wrong, but let's try to imagine that what we call 'body' is a projection in 'only' 4 dimensions from something else that would be 10 or xxx dimensions.
Let's say that this something else, living in xxx dimensions is the soul. The word "where" can not apply here, "where" apply only in 3 dimensions.
The body, the neurons, the neuro-transmitters, the thoughts, the senses would be by-products of processes that are above any human understanding.

 

[GOD]

Lets stay with reality please . As soon as people start speculating about "energy fields" , "dimensions" , "spheres" , "hollograms" , "matrix" , "the chaos theory" and other confused shit we are lost . Soul is a human concept . A theory . If soul exists its a part of mind wich is a part of the brain . Why make mysterys ? Are we bored ?

 

[Maru]

If soul exists its a part of mind wich is a part of the brain .

Whaoo ! Seems that you know very well what "soul" is

Why make mysterys ? Are we bored ?

No "mystery". It's not a mystery to think "differently". We used to place our thoughts between our ears, but thoughts are not the soul .
Maybe it is needed to precise what we call "the soul" :

Remove the body feelings and other senses (earing, viewing...), remove the sense of self (ego), remove the thoughts (mind)... what remains ? Nothing ? That's what 'normal' people could believe but psychonauts knows that 'I' remain (I do not speak about the ego).
'I' is the something else allowing thinking, feeling and even making an ego.
This is what I call the "soul" (from my memory/ego point of view). There is no way to know if 'I' is inside of the head, nor outside, nor anywhere.
It's not that mysterious to envisage that the body is 'inside' 'I' instead of the opposite, just a different way of thinking.

 

[FluidDruid]

Well if we do that the consequences arent very nice. For christ sakes, the machine/computer does not have a soul. I have no idea where you are getting this from.

 

[GOD]

"Whaoo ! Seems that you know very well what "soul" is"

I didnt say that . I didnt say if it exists or not . I said soul is a human concept , a concept is a thought . Thoughts are actions of the brain .

" We used to place our thoughts between our ears"

Whos we ? What do you mean by used to ? And are you saying that thoughts dont originate in our brain . If yes prove it .

 

[FluidDruid]

"Whaoo ! Seems that you know very well what "soul" is"

I didnt say that . I didnt say if it exists or not . I said soul is a human concept , a concept is a thought . Thoughts are actions of the brain .

" We used to place our thoughts between our ears"

Whos we ? What do you mean by used to ? And are you saying that thoughts dont originate in our brain . If yes prove it .

How about you prove that they do originate in the brain, and that thoughts are actions of the brain.

 

[GOD]

How about you getting a brain transplant ? The people making idiotic esoteric loony claims should prove it , i dont have to prove generaly acepted science .

 

[gammagoblin]

How about you getting a brain transplant ? The people making idiotic esoteric loony claims should prove it , i dont have to prove generaly acepted science .

yeah and science explains all.

 

[GOD]

Another dumbshit answer from you . It explains things more than the esoteric bullshit that some fools here are talking about . The thing about scientific proof is that its provable , Do the same experiment in the same way and you get the same result .

Stop being snoty .

 

[gammagoblin]

Another dumbshit answer from you . It explains things more than the esoteric bullshit that some fools here are talking about . The thing about scientific proof is that its provable , Do the same experiment in the same way and you get the same result .

Stop being snoty .

yeah a shame it can't explain the wonder of direct experience, which is where the soul is I believe.

why? so I can get in line? Don't think so .

 

[FluidDruid]

How about you getting a brain transplant ? The people making idiotic esoteric loony claims should prove it , i dont have to prove generaly acepted science .

Im sorry but what you are saying is not generally accepted by science, mostly coming from my direct experience in the field. Science cannot and has not given an empirical definition of any of that sort. Thats where you turn to your "Loony esoteric philosophy". Im guessing you don't know too much about philosophy. The natural sciences are a branch from Philosophy, just as is all the others. Anthropology for example was the Philosophy of Man. Neurosciences stem from Philosophy of Mind. Math was a philosophy of Pathagoreans, and so on and so on. Philosophy is the love of widsom for a particular discipline. They are both equally unresolved on the issue of consciousness. Stop being so arrogant, and read more. Again, I am having serious difficulty understanding your materialistic views, especially when they are supposedly influenced by entheogen's.

 

[Pariah]

Where is the soul? not as important as what is the soul, or "why" is the soul... or even more important - does it exist?.

Locke says "personal Identity resides in memory" ..which I suppose is a good, if not non-conventional way of looking at what the soul is, I suppose memory is in nueron interaction... so the location of soul is.... all in the mind... (according to locke)

still a few holes in that theory if you look into it, it's beats the socks off of soul theory (descartes?) and animalism.

 

[FluidDruid]

Where is the soul? not as important as what is the soul, or "why" is the soul... or even more important - does it exist?.

Locke says "personal Identity resides in memory" ..which I suppose is a good, if not non-conventional way of looking at what the soul is, I suppose memory is in nueron interaction... so the location of soul is.... all in the mind... (according to locke)

still a few holes in that theory if you look into it, it's beats the socks off of soul theory (descartes?) and animalism.

So whats the difference between yourself and a Zombie (Hypothetically of course).

 

[Maru]

Locke says "personal Identity resides in memory" ..which I suppose is a good, if not non-conventional way of looking at what the soul is, I suppose memory is in nueron interaction... so the location of soul is.... all in the mind... (according to locke)

Loke probably did'nt smoked enough DMT, or eated enough shrooms :wink:
Both memory and personal identity may disappear during an entheogen experiences. But what makes You do not disappear.
This is not a scientific fact. This is much better, this is a lived fact that everybody can experiment and experiment again.
You do not need any scientific theory or instrument to know that 'you are'.
The initial question "where is the soul" is purely intellectual but still interresting because it can lead ones to experiment by himself. One possible 'answer' of such experience is that there is no "where" to look for because "where" belong to space while the soul belong to "beeing".

 

[Pariah]

"So whats the difference between yourself and a Zombie (Hypothetically of course)?"

personal reflection: being aware that your aware.

"Both memory and personal identity may disappear during an entheogen experiences. But what makes You do not disappear."

I'd say that memory and personal Identity get subdued, as does what makes you you - becoming pure experience tends to get in the way of the things you would usually associate with yourself like work and friends, but isn't a permanant dissapearing.

 

[st.bot.32]

Locke says "personal Identity resides in memory" ..which I suppose is a good, if not non-conventional way of looking at what the soul is, I suppose memory is in nueron interaction... so the location of soul is.... all in the mind... (according to locke)

Loke probably did'nt smoked enough DMT, or eated enough shrooms :wink:
Both memory and personal identity may disappear during an entheogen experiences. But what makes You do not disappear.

Strange, because for me entheogenic experiences are all about memory. A simple word may evoke complex streams of imagery, sounds, voices, all from memory. Memory is an integral part of the process of recognizing visuals... otherwise you won't have any idea what it is you are looking at. Even during ego death, I completely forgot how to form language, but the stream of imagery I saw came directly from memory. Also I was listening to music at the time, and even though the way my brain interpreted it changed drastically, I would not have had any comprehension at all if memory wasn't functioning at some level.

If you don't remember who you are, is it really still you? Much like people who have had brain damage and had their personality change completely. Do they even remember who they were before?

 

[Maru]

Even during ego death, I completely forgot how to form language, but the stream of imagery I saw came directly from memory. Also I was listening to music at the time, and even though the way my brain interpreted it changed drastically, I would not have had any comprehension at all if memory wasn't functioning at some level.

Sure, there are many levels of experiences and memory can not totally disapear (nobody really knows what is memory and it's hard to say what are the limits of memory).
But I guess that what Loke meant is that the identity reside in a "memory of self". You are remembering that you are remembering that you are.... which create the illusion of a continuity (ego). But personal experience may shows that it's perfectly possible to BE without any kind of memory. I mean no memory of you as a social identity.(male, female, even the memory of beeing human)