where is the soul ?

[Meduzz]

I understand whats being said . We are talking about things / concepts that cant be pinned down . In the end they are all products of or pats of mind / consciousness and have their home or the part of the home that is in the body in the brain .

Indeed. In science one often has to leave the semantics and follow intuition for a better understanding. That's because the isomorphy with the world we know by evolution dissapears.

 

[Sticki]

Well 5553b4442, I never said I believed it was located in the pineal gland but as you said what if the soul is controlling this vessel from a far. Here's something I saw a week ago or so

What if the soul was the pure energy projecting the hologram?? Look at the PDF

 

[GOD]

Sorry Stiki , dont want to slag you........ but that pdf and the site where it came from is pseudo scientific esoteric shit .

 

[????????]

if the soul is a "byproduct" of chemical reactions, why should we think that we are special, in the first place ?

why do you think you are special, in the first place?

 

[FluidDruid]

google chinese room

 

[5553b4442]

Phillippos, i was quoting Meduzz. I don't think i am special, i am just trying to understand some points here.

I don't think the soul is boring. I think everything is special.

What it is interesting in this thread is that everyone has it's own answers, but no one replies any questions; everyone is more or less sure of what the soul is, but i haven't understood the point of each one individually.
Meduzz, please reply directly: why has the soul created the illusion that it is special, since it is very common ? I haven't stated it is boring. Does a rock have a soul ? What about the Earth ?


GOD, i am sorry to disagree with you, but i don't think it is hard to pin it down. One has to forget what everyone told us since we were children: the Christian concept of the soul, the esoteric bullshit (like the one Sticky told us about), astral projection, even what science gives us the impression - "we cannot find the soul, therefore it is folklore".


Can i feel my soul ? Can i touch it ? Can i make it leave my body and come back ? Can it grow sick ? Healed ? Lost ? Given ?
If our souls are byproducts of the brain, or of the chemistry, could a soul be programmed into a computer ? Could it be synthetized in a lab ? If i ate the right ingredients, could i shit a soul ?
Please don't evade the questions, because it is already hard as it is, and if we scatter around, nothing more than a "good time" awaits us.

 

[5553b4442]

FluidDruid, please tell me in what way and in what experiences have hallucinogens (you used this word) given you the conclusion that we are something else apart from our physical identity.

 

[FluidDruid]

FluidDruid, please tell me in what way and in what experiences have hallucinogens (you used this word) given you the conclusion that we are something else apart from our physical identity.

Perception is a two-step process: (1) Sense-data are received and (2) inference is then made on the basis of the sense-data. When you see a house, a hammer, or a friend’s face, what you see is really the result of an elaborate process of inference from sense-data. There you have the empirical definition, which is being used. Sense data is altered thus alternate processing of inference thus alternate reality. Your senses are no longer receiving the normal "data" of your surroundings, changing your perception of the physical reality. Which using this definition shows that there is no difference conceptually perceptually. You experience what you experience, that simple. Just because it is altered in some fashion doesn't take away from the "realness" of the experience. If you go colorblind you no longer perceive color and thus it is no longer a part of your reality. The persons affected with being color blind shares the same physical reality as you right?

"If our souls are byproducts of the brain, or of the chemistry, could a soul be programmed into a computer ? Could it be synthetized in a lab ? If i ate the right ingredients, could i shit a soul ? "

No, No, No, and No.

"what way and in what experiences have hallucinogens (you used this word) given you the conclusion that we are something else apart from our physical identity. "

What are you doing on this forum?

 

[Sticki]

Sorry Stiki , dont want to slag you........ but that pdf and the site where it came from is pseudo scientific esoteric shit .

The PDF and Site it came from is DMT-Nexus.

Why would you slag me???

I havent said I follow this or that it is the truth, This is merely one side I have seen and thought was relevant to the thread creators question. Just another view I guess, Im not overly fussed what the soul is personally.

In my guess the soul is eternal awareness so soul and spirit are 1 and the same and the body is just the organic host. The brain is just like a memory card, Stores things the organic host learns, Such as Speech, Memory's, Logical process's, Movement and Sense's developed in the organic world. The soul could be the bit delivering the electrical pulses that keep it regulated or it could be something much more greater but in all honesty....

Will we truely know without devine intervention?

 

[Forkbender]

" in a spaceless dimension."

Wot ? Like imagination , intelligence , the "Ego/ich" and thoughts ? Pin them down . They are all dependant on body -> brain-> mind . Soul / psyche are qualitys of that wich is aware , that wich watches . The light , the link between here and now , consciousness , me and the god that you find if you peal off all the layers of charakter , personality and identity .

I don't understand the question/critique. Do you make a distinction between mind and soul or not?

'Spaceless dimension' is derived from how Descartes conceptualized the soul. I don't agree with his distinction between immaterial consciousness and unconscious matter, because I think it caused more problems than it solved.

 

[druglessdouglas]

this may have been posted before, i cant remember, but ...

 

[5553b4442]

FluidDruid, you have studied the Empirical fundamentalism quite well. But have you applied that theory to you, as a psychonaut ? why would you want to confuse/amplify your senses with psychedelics/substances/drugs, when, in the end, you only infere what you percieve ? Could it be because we also have inherent ideas in ourselves which aren't a consequence of a specific experience/perception ? That would lead us to reverse the process: we want to perceive what we infere.
From what i understood, you claimed that altered sense-data would lead to alternate realities. Then,you say a colour-blind would be in the same reality than me. I completely missed that point, please explain better.
We are heading off-topic here. This is about the soul, and not about the senses. Please remain objective and straight. What has the soul to do with it ? Where is it, then ? What is it ?

"If our souls are byproducts of the brain, or of the chemistry, could a soul be programmed into a computer ? Could it be synthetized in a lab ? If i ate the right ingredients, could i shit a soul ? "

No, No, No, and No.

Explain why. "No" is a reply that 5 year-olds give when they don't want to bathe. Why can't i synthetize a soul ? Are we different from laboratory compounds ? And if we are, why are the psychedelics able to be produced in a lab, altering our senses, and leading to alternate realities (from what i understood from your post - please write with linearlity), making us reach conclusions about the soul itself ?

What are you doing on this forum?

I'm living a second life, comfortably in my sofa.


Forkbender, if I were you, i'd stay away from Descartes. He was being payed by the Church, worked in the army and belived that the universe was a big, very tuned upright machine.

 

[GOD]

Does soul exist ? Who cares . I am what i am and speculating about what colour a hammer should be or how big a hole is is sensless . Stop trying to put things in boxes and trying to define things that cant be properly defined .

"The more thinking and talking the further from the truth" .

 

[Forkbender]

^My point exactly.

@5553b4442:

Descartes is a key figure in understanding European thought from the 17th century onwards. I can study what he says without agreeing with him, so don't worry.

 

[5553b4442]

I didn't asked if the soul existed. I asked "where is it", since almost of us have used that word now and then. All things can be defined if we think enough about them, we just think they aren't because we don't know where to start. If it was like that, why would you speak so much about love, caring, loneliness, hatred or friendship ? The whole psychedelic experience would be meaningless, if it was kept for itself and not communicated. And by "you", i mean "we".
communication is the first stone of building that gives the thinking brain a place to live in.

"the less thinking and talking, the more you listen to other people's crap"

 

[GOD]

Describing things is one thing , defining them another and saying exactly where an idea / a concept is is impossible .

I still think its on the shelf between blues and funk .

 

[Meduzz]

Meduzz, please reply directly: why has the soul created the illusion that it is special, since it is very common ?

Your house is more special to you than that of a stranger. We can easily understand the soul of a computer, of a bacteria, even of our cities. But our own is a bit harder because we try to use the system of our soul to understand the system of our soul. This leads to very narrow hallways, if you catch my drift. Like a monkey trying to bite his own back.

 

[Forkbender]

"the less thinking and talking, the more you listen to other people's crap"

instead of smearing your own shit on the walls?

 

[GOD]

The more thinking and talking the farther from the truth implys doing it and taking any notice of other peoples shit . Turn off , tune in , drop acid .

 

[5553b4442]

Forkbender, if you don't talk and don't think, you must be deaf not to listen. If I don't smear my shit on the walls, i'll never know what other people will smell.


Meduzz, why should our soul be different from a bacteria's ? From what i understood of your thoughts, you claimed that the soul was a consequence of chemical reactions. Cities haven't got chemical reactions. We, bacteria, dogs and lizards have chemical reactions, so, why shouldn't we have the same soul ? I enjoy your way of thinking.