Vegetarianism

[IJesusChrist]

I think theres a problem with vegetarianism/veganism... you yourself make your own imaginary line what is good to eat and what is not. Simply by eating you are taking from something else... So simply by eating imported anything from a country with hunger, are you not causing more hunger, more torture?

I believe you should eat what you want, need to eat. It is your choice really, but you must be consciously aware of what you are doing.

Or just kill yourself, I mean... then you don't have to worry at all!

 

[Forkbender]

^it is a good question to ask yourself, what the source is of the food you eat.

But look at how meat is produced: acres and acres of land is needed to make the grains (a horrible rape of the natural growing abilities of the soil) that are put in cow food, together with hormones produced in chemical labs. If you do the math, it takes a whole lot more energy to produce meat than to produce fruits and vegetables, so I don't exactly see how the hunger is enlarged by eating the most efficient energy source.

I don't think the line is as imaginary as you say it is and meat eaters do the same thing by not eating dogs/cats/chipmunks/anteaters/etc. If you look at the scientific evidence of what is healthy and what not, meat and dairy are usually on the 'bad' side. Our bodies aren't build to process it, eventhough we can, and the results of years of meat eating and dairy drinking is a much higher risk on cancer and cardiovascular diseases.

 

[Forkbender]

What about fish, are they conscious beings or are they like swimming vegetables?

In French they are called "fruit de mer", or fruits of the sea.

Not really, those are just shellfish, lobsters, crabs, etc. Fish is poisson.

 

[Psyolopher]

I happen to like them fishies, they're healthy aswell.

 

[st.bot.32]

How many people here have tripped with animals (pets, livestock, whatever) around?

 

[Psyolopher]

I have.
I find cats very interesting!
Dogs...birds.....etc...

 

[IJesusChrist]

I went to the zoo a day after having smoked alot of weed - thus I was still semi high (I don't smoke often at all).

It was an eye opener. I really wanted to leave.

I also got my Toad really high, and my cat. One cat loved to get high, the other cat hated it. The one that loved it would go crazy, rubbing his nose and saliva all over me, it was disgusting, but I put up with it haha, Love that kitty.

 

[st.bot.32]

Watching and interacting with animals while tripping did change my perspective somehow, or perhaps I should say the experience caused me to start asking certain questions..

 

[Affirmatory]

I once felt like the world was devoid of positivity when i was on shrooms so I hugged my dog.

It helped.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I once felt like the world was devoid of positivity when i was on shrooms so I hugged my dog.

It helped.

Realize how amazing this is?

Would it have helped to hug a chair? A desk? a pillow?

... Maybe a tree, what about a deer...?

See what I'm saying?! INTERESTING

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

You can't hug a fish because he's too fast and would slip in your arms anyways...

but you can hug a dolphin, a tuna, a whale !

 

[chimp_masta_flex]

An interesting take on vegetarianism i heard the other day got me thinking...

Usually its considered from the point of view that eating meet is 'immoral' or 'wrong'. IMO this is true, but morality is a personal thing so this doesnt apply to everyone.
However, the idea that eating meat is inneficient and wasteful is an objective arguement.

Consider...
1000Kj of energy pass from the sun into a field of wheat (yes, its a very very small field...),
500Kj of this are stored in the wheat itself,
This is then fed to a pig, which uses 250Kj wandering about,
therefore 250Kj of energy is recieved when the pig is consumed.

This is an efficiency of 25%, and by simply consuming the wheat we would achieve an efficiency of 50%. This would, in effect mean that we would have twice as much food (calorifically speaking), and twice as many people fed.

This is simply a thought experiment, i have however heard the statistic that 9/10's of the crops grown in america are fed to livestock, i cannot confirm this information though i believe it to be so. Thats a HUGE amount of crops and so a huge amount of calories going to waste.

 

[Quark13]

Every day HUGE area's of old growth forest are being sacrificed for GMO crops to feed the animals that we eat.

Becoming a vegetarian, vegan or buying less meat and meat products affects most living beings on earth in a profound way in the long run. It is one of the most effective decisions we can make to reduce our ongoing destruction of the biosphere.

 

[chimp_masta_flex]

The statistic i gave is approximately correct:

'Animals fed on grain and those which rely on grazing need more water than grain crops. According to the USDA, growing crops for farm animals requires nearly half of the U.S. water supply and 80% of its agricultural land. Animals raised for food in the U.S. consume 90% of the soy crop, 80% of the corn crop, and 70% of its grain. In tracking food animal production from the feed through to the dinner table, the inefficiencies of meat, milk and egg production range from a 4:1 energy input to protein output ratio up to 54:1. The result is that producing animal-based food is typically much less efficient than the harvesting of grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and fruits, though this might not be true to the same extent for animal husbandry in the developing world where factory farming is almost non existent, making animal-based food much more sustainable.'
- wikipedia article 'ethics of eating meat'

tis a bit silly really...

 

[IJesusChrist]

yeah, eating meat is wasteful both that it takes your body more energy to digest it, as well as it's actual arrival at its own energy is inefficient (in a way)... there is the counter arguement of course that it really doesn't matter, the energy gets recycled anyways.

The real problem is pollution, deforestation, health, and animal cruelty. The goods outway the bads many fold...

I just find it very hard to get variety, with a satisfied hunger every meal.

 

[magickmumu]

How many people here have tripped with animals (pets, livestock, whatever) around?

At the place where I drank ayahuasca they had dogs running around.
When I am at home I have my cat.