the only way

[Goran.Hrsak]

MAN FUCK U!!! :axe:
This is comment in good way. 8)

 

[st.bot.32]

Yes it was an amazing trip. I realized during the peak it would be hard for CM to take care of me if I would panic, as he was in his own cosmic state. Not a very uncomfortable thought, because I knew CM was here with me taking a similar voyage. I think the decision whether the sitter also takes drugs or not should depend on the wishes of the first timer.

Yeah, the first time I tripped (tabs) it was with someone experienced who dropped as well. We had a great state of sensory communication happening that added a lot to the trip. Being on the same level as someone else really helped me feel not so isolated. The connection that occurs when tripping with someone else really can be a profoundly deep thing.

About halfway thru the trip tho things got a bit rough for me. Although I was able to deal, I think my friend spent a good portion of the trip worrying about my state

I would think that perhaps in an ideal world, a sober sitter and a tripping companion would be ideal. The sober person not necessarily even in the same room, but just in the vicinity in case something goes wrong.

 

[druglessdouglas]

[quote CaduceusMercurius] If it's chitin then it's indeed an undigestible fiber. In my shop I sell weight loss products ("fat blockers") containing chitosan, which binds itself to fatty acids in the intestines. Would adding a lump of butter or a bit of olive oil to a dose of mushrooms help?


im afraid i have no idea. i usually avoid fat as it is the most difficult to digest and slows down the digestion of everything else, food stays in your stomach until you can produce enough bile to deal with the fat. i find mushroom tea (actually coffee) easiest on the stomach although i am still convinced there are some analogues present effecting the nerves controlling the smooth muscles of the intestine, much like some SSRIs can cause gastric upsets. perhaps different strains have different levels of these analogues. i realy dont know but it seems possible

 

[JohnDoe_2012]

On the topic of dangers of psychedelics I'd be interested to hear any anecdotal or scientific evidence of what kinds of quantities correlate to psychotic breaks or exacerbate pre-existing or future mental illness.

One of the great tragedies of the psychedelic world is obviously the lack of widespread long-term experiments on the different drugs effects on people. We have some studies which come back with lists of things these compounds can do which sound wonderful and give one optimism. Then we have those which come back with the kinds of conclusions that would send a little shiver up all but the most hardened psychonaut's spine. As with all scientific experiments it's so difficult to know who has what biases or is funded by who etc etc.

For such a scary topic it's really a travesty more time and effort hasn't been put into exploring these kinds of questions. You'd think people who were anti-drug would WANT a lot of experiments done so things could be found to be conclusively bad with X or Y and cause Z.

I mean are we talking about people going psychotic after one trip on mushrooms/LSD/mescaline, people who have over-used these compounds coupled with a pre-existing condition/suspectibility or is it literally almost random in nature?

 

[druglessdouglas]

there is normaly an underlying condition. dose and frequency of use seem to have little to do with it. my friend who set himself on fire was unwell for a long time. he was also into opium, heroin and freebase cocaine. it just so happens he had his fatal break while injecting mushrooms in vodka.
i know others who have had psychotic episodes during their first trip and never recovered. i believe it was only a matter of time before their illness manifest anyway. its probably genetic

 

[JohnDoe_2012]

Well as a real beginner at the experiment side of things, and someone who has never tripped with another person/group present there has always been a mixture of confusion and concern about this topic for me. I know based on my research into a lot of other areas of life how quick journalists can be to seize on one thing they think will provoke a reaction or shock people, this has always been a successful way to sell papers and attention. We see it all the time with even trivial things like one day you'll see an article 'Jesus used cannabis to heal' or 'mushrooms cure OCD'.

The thing that has always left me confused is on one hand I can see that people with underlying conditions probably are more likely to accelerate those if they use powerful compounds like the ones we're discussing, on the other hand I get the feeling a lot of the people going 'mad' or becoming a danger to themselves may have had other problems in their lives they thought psychedelics were a solution to. Or perhaps they have been abusing hard drugs in their lives and psychedelics to them are a free lights show for when they want to see Tool in concert or watch Fear and loathing in Las Vegas. It reminds me of the debate over cannabis where some people act as though one or two joints and you'll start down the path to madness, on the other hand in the cases I've witnessed of people who had mental illness and a history of cannabis use they either abuse cannabis bigtime, like smoked 7g every day of their lives since their teen years, or they'd abused other drugs also and people just saw the cannabis and gave that 100% of the blame.

Does that sounds reasonable based on any of your personal experiences?

I wouldn't class myself as a high risk candidate, there has been some depression in extended members of my bloodline and I have mild asperger's syndrome myself (I share some of the traits but others like difficulties with humor seem to have skipped me over altogether and I'm as equipped as the next person) All the same I don't abuse any drug, I try to use them sparingly and without mixing and I haven't experienced anything negative beyond bad trips which would suggest I should quit any experimentation altogether.

That said this can't help but be a little concerning since I know I'm not the nice and safe subject type scientists would want for clinical trials with these kinds of compounds. Am I just over-thinking in trying to look at every angle of this?

 

[GOD]

Loads of people have those bad genes . The problem is identifying the trigger that starts them expressing themselves . = bad jeans dont mean someone is going to get psychotic .

 

[druglessdouglas]

i know someone who becomes OCD without cannabis and is fine with it. because he has so much energy he works 12 hours a day and cant relax on his 1 day off. for him cannabis=sanity

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

JohnDoe_2012

If U want descriptions of deathly effects, psychotic effects, flash back (border line kind with long duration), psychotic effect which last continuously after coming down from trip, perceptive-religious-emotional-cognitive-even physic distortions and "being" changes after voyages, I will give U valuable info!
Something from my XP and rest (bigger amount) from others (friends and known people).
But write me questions in counting-number way. Like question number 1. one is ....., next row and then question number 2. and so on. OK? Else I can't help U. I do not have time for essays. sorry.

 

[st.bot.32]

Don't we already know something about the long-term effects of some psychedelics, well LSD anyway? After all there was a substantial amount of research into its effects right up till the 60's... and its usage has obviously continued since then..

It does seem that some conditions like HPPD are not too well documented. Some people get it right away. Some people get it after their third or fourth trip. There is no way to know. Sometimes it is psychosomatic. I don't know of anyone with it, although I supposedly have a friend of a friend or something along those lines who has it... =)

I do know of one person who had a bad trip that literally ruined his life. I know he already had a preexisting condition as well though.. I don't know enough of the details for a complete story though, it was something like depression.

Though supposedly i was diagnosed with depression long ago, psychedelics have never really disagreed with me, they leave me feeling reborn and reinvigorated. but i don't think i had real, physical, depression like some do. it was a hasty, very unscientific diagnosis. actually the only drug that has ever really fucked me up has been an antidepressant, with a distant second being caffeine, which often makes me anxious and can ruin my day.

Come to think of it as for positive research mescaline seems to be cast in a fairly positive light compared to other psychedelics, as studies showed the church of the peyote members are supposedly in great mental health overall..

 

[GOD]

There was a question in the MAPS forum a few months ago where someone asked if anyone could prove lasting damage from LSD . No one new any . = someone might get a short term dose of mental shits , but that is likely to come from a latent mental problem and not from the LSD .

 

[Bastiaan]

Some guy I met at a party told me he killed a cat on LSD once

I hope you told him without blinking or thinking that you killed a guy who killed a cat on LSD on LSD once

"The sky is purrrple..."

Omg the face in the picture looks quite like mine

 

[druglessdouglas]

i think if you have any self knowledge you will notice warning signs and take a break. for the most part a break is enough to recover