the only way

[JohnDoe_2012]

drugless:

You make some points which deserve thinking about.

Bearing in mind the experiences of your unfortunate friends are you entirely without worry that your own mental health may one day be affected by taking high doses? I'm not trying to imply anything, this is a genuine and sincere question from someone with less experience.

You make a fair point about not over-emphasizing the work of Mckenna, Leary and co but I've always felt the best aspects of their work was finding positive reasons why intelligent, thoughtful people might turn to psychedelic plants to experience/find insights. Whether it's Leary talking about going down to a cellular level on LSD or Mckenna raving about DMT/mushrooms when you strip back the performer's prose you find a basic framework of ideas about why to do these drugs and which directions they'll send you in. Since you've taken so many trips I'm interested as to what your motivation is for using the mushroom and what you get out of the pursuit.

That whole mental illness topic is kind of scary and maybe it should be to ward off those who aren't cut out for this kind of stuff, all the same I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts since you've clearly had a lot of experience and you seem determined to continue your adventures.

 

[druglessdouglas]

CaduceusMercurius first. the fiber is mainly chitin, the same material insect exoskeletons are made from. my personal feeling is there are non psychoactive analogues of pcilocin/cybin that affect the smooth muscles of the intestine, though ive no evidence.

JohnDoe_2012. - i seem to be getting saner as i get older. i think it is not the drug that triggers psychosis but what goes through your mind while under the influence. thats why you have to prepare. its also why you have to surrender to minimise the self conflict. cognitive dissonance.
first you get to know yourself then you learn to like yourself. the last bit is possibly the hardest. when you take strong psychadelics it is you that you are exploring. its not time travel or space exploration though it sometimes feels like it

ill give you a tool. meditate on this.

when you are asleep and dreaming all the people you meet are you

 

[magickmumu]

when you are asleep and dreaming all the people you meet are you

Most people already know this.
drugless Maybe you´re underestimating your fellow psychonauts


In the art of dreaming by Castaneda, things are not like this.
In this book there are dream scouts and inorganic beings invading our dreams.
Of course this is a fiction, but I liked it.

 

[druglessdouglas]

when you are asleep and dreaming all the people you meet are you

Most people already know this.
drugless Maybe you´re underestimating your fellow psychonauts


In the art of dreaming by Castaneda, things are not like this.
In this book there are dream scouts and inorganic beings invading our dreams.
Of course this is a fiction, but I liked it.

fiction. mushrooms are the opposite of fiction.
thats exactly my point.
its fine to read about other peoples experiences. its like learning how to drive by reading a book about it. in reality you will learn next to nothing.

 

[magickmumu]

You´re right I don´t know what you are trying to bring across Drugless.
I understand you try to warn people about the dangers of mushrooms.
Mushrooms may not be for some, but not everybody is psychotic. I´ve met a lot of people who use ayahuasca and mushrooms seriously (not just for fun)
None of these people where psychotic. They all ended up just fine.
Warning people about the dangers and being a guide to them is all you can do.
You can´t take responsibility for someone else his actions.
Like I said the safest way to experience mushrooms and ayahuasca is under the guidance of someone who has experience. That´s one of the reasons I drink ayahuasca in ceremonies and not at home.

The point is that people know a lot more then you would expect.
I think you underestimate people.

I agree the dangers are real.
You as a veteran warn people and what more can you do.

Wait a minute. I was reading that book for entertainment, not to educate myself. Just a nice magical novel to read a night nothing more.
Come on there is nothing wrong with reading a novel. You are being an ass drugless.

 

[mysticwarrior]

I'l think magickmumu is right about this, it's so easy when you are an experienced user to underestimate others who are just beginning.

Greets,
Mystic.

 

[druglessdouglas]

Unlocking the secrets that are hidden inside, through doors of perception ...Yourself you could find.


i give up

 

[mysticwarrior]

i give up

Why would you give up? Your right on almost everything that you have said to everybody. But i think you should not underestimate people to much.

 

[magickmumu]

everybody just take care of yourself and each other.
And safe tripping.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Cor 13:13

 

[GOD]

You arent listening , you arent thinking . Your egos are talking . Drugless doesnt underestimate anyone . I didnt know that all the people i meet in my dreams are me . Now i do . Thanks Drugy .

Casteneda was mostly a dickhead and people took him much to seriously . As fork said its not a contest about whos got the biggest dick . Most of you seem to think it is , most of you cant seem to realise that what you say is crap and keep saying it . I know its a forum , i know its about talking about things . But stop talking for talkings sake . Realise that sometimes its not constructive to just keep on blah , blah , blah.......... and dont call Drugless an ass . He isnt , YOU ARE . I`ve never seen him say anything that wasnt true . Learn to learn , learn from Drugy hes a real psychonaut and most of you lot are just beginers , trip kiddys .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

CaduceusMercurius first. the fiber is mainly chitin, the same material insect exoskeletons are made from. my personal feeling is there are non psychoactive analogues of pcilocin/cybin that affect the smooth muscles of the intestine, though ive no evidence.

If it's chitin then it's indeed an undigestible fiber. In my shop I sell weight loss products ("fat blockers") containing chitosan, which binds itself to fatty acids in the intestines. Would adding a lump of butter or a bit of olive oil to a dose of mushrooms help?

If by a sitter you mean someone who stays sober, that´s fine.
But I think it´s better for the sitter or guide to be on the same level as the person he is guiding.

That would be 'tripping together', which can be nice, but the words 'sitter' and 'guide' can not be used then. The sitter might do a very low dose, but better he just stays sober so he can really think clearly, and quietly read a book for a couple of hours.

 

[GOD]

Interesting thoughts .

A sitter who takes nothing , a sitter who takes a smalldose to make him more empathetic and a guide that takes a full dose .

The guide with the full dose interests me most .

 

[st.bot.32]

i think it is not the drug that triggers psychosis but what goes through your mind while under the influence. thats why you have to prepare. its also why you have to surrender to minimise the self conflict. cognitive dissonance...when you take strong psychadelics it is you that you are exploring. its not time travel or space exploration though it sometimes feels like it

i agree with this entirely. i think it depends very much on how you view your trips. someone whom is already in a bad way and sees confirmation and reinforcement of their negative headspace in their trip, rather than learning from it and questioning it, shouldn't be tripping.

myself, the last few times i've done mushrooms, i've felt remarkably sane and clear (and calm) after the trip was over. even after my last "bad trip" i felt purged, cleansed, reinvigorated. i don't get depressed the day after doing mushrooms anymore, i usually feel lush and terrific.

i know this thread is about mushrooms, but i find acid also interesting in this respect. often in the 2nd half of a long trip, as the mental exhaustion starts to set in, i begin to feel this somewhat cynical over-psychoanalyzing every silly thing i'm doing and saying, learning how to deal with these kinds of headspaces has taught me a lot about how to handle negativity and recognize irrational thoughts as they come up.

within reason, i think psychedelics have left me a bit more rational than I was before. at least more generally self-aware.

 

[magickmumu]

Caduceus it would be a guide, because the more experienced person is guiding the first timer.

You arent listening , you arent thinking . Your egos are talking . Drugless doesnt underestimate anyone . I didnt know that all the people i meet in my dreams are me . Now i do . Thanks Drugy .

Casteneda was mostly a dickhead and people took him much to seriously . As fork said its not a contest about whos got the biggest dick . Most of you seem to think it is , most of you cant seem to realise that what you say is crap and keep saying it . I know its a forum , i know its about talking about things . But stop talking for talkings sake . Realise that sometimes its not constructive to just keep on blah , blah , blah.......... and dont call Drugless an ass . He isnt , YOU ARE . I`ve never seen him say anything that wasnt true . Learn to learn , learn from Drugy hes a real psychonaut and most of you lot are just beginers , trip kiddys .

GOD
If you see me as a trip kiddy, that,s your problem.
I don't have to prove myself. I know who I am.
I take care for my trips and my people. I suggest you take care of yours.
Like I said, don't worry about me.

GOD what do you want to hear. That I never touch mushrooms again. That I stop being on this forum. ??????
Do you want to hear me admit that I am not a real psychonaut and a trip kiddie?
tell me what do you want from me?
(feels like talking to police men)

I wish we could see eye to eye. I wonder if you would talk to me like that if we would meet in real life.

 

[Oknayd]

First of all, hello to everyone since this is like my second post or something.

Now.. for my thoughts..

Lately i've been reading a lot of topics here on the forum, and sometimes it's interesting and there is something new to learn, fresh ideas, new point of views etc..

BUT .. what i saw mostly last couple of weeks was confusion and fingerpointing.. now, maybe i'm exaggerating and i have a negative view lately (which i admit could be true)
Why the hell can't you people just try to talk constructively about somethiing without pointing out that somebody isn't thinking, talking shit or whatever is wrong with him/her from your viewpoint?
Whatever happened to being polite?

For me personally tripping is not about heroic doses, and i know you probably didn't mean to struck the competitiveness of some people drugless, but for me experience isn't in the doses, it's in the goddamn experiences ...lol

There will always be people who abuse shrooms, screw themselves and make things worse for the rest of us. But that's called life i guess

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Caduceus it would be a guide, because the more experienced person is guiding the first timer.

Ah, then I've been a guide a couple of times. It works pretty well, as long as the first timer doesn't need your undivided attention or help in the case of an emergency. Two days ago I 'guided' Mara through her first 5 gram dose (she had experienced 2.2 grams before), and though it was an excellent trip for both of us, it was only after the peak that I could really focus on getting something to drink for her, changing the music etc.

 

[Oknayd]

what i meant was that intent is the more important thing (for me anyways), although i agree there are certain thresholds in doses

 

[Mara]

Two days ago I 'guided' Mara through her first 5 gram dose (she had experienced 2.2 grams before), and though it was an excellent trip for both of us, it was only after the peak that I could really focus on getting something to drink for her, changing the music etc.

Yes it was an amazing trip. I realized during the peak it would be hard for CM to take care of me if I would panic, as he was in his own cosmic state. Not a very uncomfortable thought, because I knew CM was here with me taking a similar voyage. I think the decision whether the sitter also takes drugs or not should depend on the wishes of the first timer.

Drugless, I read a lot of your posts, and I find them very useful. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I agree with your opinion about the setting, and I will try ginger next time, as the biggest problem during my trips is my stomach. :thumbsup:

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"The sky is purrrple..."

 

[Mara]