the forum

[Brugmansia]

Bru : It seems obvious you have not experienced Solanaceas and Amanita delirium if you put them in the same bag as Ketamine.

Not a delirium, no. Don't be daft with your love for that specific plant material and yourself rejecting synthetics and other entheogens. If you want experiences which consist of just hallucinations and nothing more... :roll: As I said with ketamine, no content, just dream visions of the lost consciousness.

It's obvious you're suffering with a tendency to push other individuals into a certain directions to safe your own cost.

Do experiences with LSD and shrooms extensively as well and then come back to this community. And if you claim that you already have, then leave instantly.

Thanks to your long endurance and proceeding with your numb behaviour (yet again you just managed it to approach others individually in a way so it suits only your position well) this community has gotten another break down in it's quality and the fact that you stay here, and prefering yourself over more individuals is such a shame. I doubt your whole attitude would have occured if you did the entheogenic initiation with diligence.

Anyway, I'll say already, it might go well for a while, but the same slippery phase will return with this guy.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

So there is no problem Or ?

Sure there is a problem, or problems rather. We have a boycott, several members who are now lurking, Douglas wanting his account and all threads he started deleted, a conflict between site administator and all moderators, secrecy amongst moderators surrounding the locking of a thread, the recent disappearance of (the same or another?) thread, allegations of me being a manipulative liar, coward, partial and a host of other serious charges, a demand for a ban without anyone presenting a structured case, a demand for more site administrators, a demand for a new forum section... There have been many false accusations and insults, and very few apologies. We've still got a long way to go.

 

[Forkbender]

I just sent you a PM, CM.

It is part of the solution, which is being completely honest about what one feels.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Do experiences with LSD and shrooms extensively as well and then come back to this community. And if you claim that you already have, then leave instantly.

Thanks to your long endurance and proceeding with your numb behaviour (yet again you just managed it to approach others individually in a way so it suits only your position well) this community has gotten another break down in it's quality and the fact that you stay here, and prefering yourself over more individuals is such a shame. I doubt your whole attitude would have occured if you did the entheogenic initiation with diligence.

Anyway, I'll say already, it might go well for a while, but the same slippery phase will return with this guy.

You can continue to discuss these issues here. The disagreement over nightshades, Amanita and ketamine can be discussed in a new topic: natural versus synthetic dissociatives and entheogens.

 

[GOD]

I want to make my opinions clear .

I am against an esoteric section , for me that would be like apartheid .

I am against Aya-wotsit getting banned . I like his humor and respect his intelligence , knowledge and experience . I also see a big similarity in his physical problems and mine . The only time i wanted him to be benned was when i felt he was having a go at Mara and i think things like that are not on . After Mara cleared it up i changed my opinion again .

I am totaly against any boycots , other than people freely choosing to ignore threads and / or people .

I am also against vendetas .

I am totaly against people deleting their acounts , or posts when it would make the thread look stupid .

There is no secrecy about anyone deleting or locking a post . The person concerned posted that he had done it and why . I think its not right for anyone to inform on any moderator that does it , or anyone else for that matter . Personaly i would rather die than give info like that .

I`m not sure about what you mean with a thread dissapearing . Do you mean the trollis thread / acount ? If you do i think everyone would be interested in finding out how it was done .

I am against any more administrators . There are enough now .

"There have been many false accusations and insults, and very few apologies."

I am still waiting for an apology from you .

I`m sorry but i think that your post shows that you are not seeing / thinking straight and are putting your ego above the interests of the site . To me you dont seem to be able to put your arguments down and just let the site and the members carry on . You are the one that seems to me to be holding grudges and judging .

Please , please , in the interests of the members and the site calm down and take a few deep breaths . I feel how you are reacting is not getting anyone any further .

I also feel insulted , falsly acused and used . But as i said lets bury the hatchet ..... but not in my back .


Peace .

If you reply negatively i wont take part in the discussion anymore .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

That was a very clear post. I really appreciate you for writing it.

We seem to now agree on the esoterics section and the ban. I've also heard others say that perhaps a ban wasn't necessary after all...

I don't know what the missing thread was about, Pax might remember. I simply stumbled upon it when looking for the thread that had been locked. It could have been deleted for good reasons, I have no idea. It's not terribly important. The thing with Trollis, yes, a mystery, but on the other hand good riddance I guess. That person only partook in political discussions, didn't post anywhere else on the forum. I would agree that that was indeed a troll.

I am still waiting for an apology from you .

I thought about it for ten minutes, but cannot sincerely apologize to you yet. I do not know in which way I have done you wrong. I might have interpreted some of your words and deeds wrongly, but you have a responsibility in that as well. I will continue to think about the matter though. I will apologize for things I feel sorry about, and publicly admit my mistakes. But I don't believe in trading apologies, so all in good time.

 

[GOD]

Thanks for the answer . But please never even think that i would trade apologies with anyone anytime ever . I dont care if anything i have said has negative concequencys for me . I`m not an arse licker and i stand by everything i have said and wont apologise .

I realy do think you should think about why if people are not posting and / or doing a boycot if they are doing it . Its not a conspiracy from me . Maybe they arent satisfyed to the reactions to their thoughts , concerns and wishes on the forum about an acount being deleted and a thread going missing or other things . I dont know ..

If this doesnt get settled and doesnt stop now i will take your advice and contact the owner and ask him to do a solomon . I`dont care if he has a go at me or bans me for what i have said or done .

Lets get on with the forum .

 

[restin]

I'm a little bit more sober about it today...

I realise I let myself be very vulnerable lately and it sent me in some kind of frenzied quest for honesty. I wasn't convinced it was a community when I first began to receive criticism, thanks to CM's post that cleared things a little bit for me about the dynamics of it.

Thus I appreciate it from everyone, and I do not think God is completely crazy about it, as Mara said.

Thanks for your honesty Mara ( I know I repeat myself ) I think the reason CM did not consider much opening a new section is because the lounge and the general psychonautism section was exactly opened for that (lucid dreaming and everything else that dosen't fit) so it seemed more like a move to please people who would not be part of the community and make themselves vulnerable as well. Thats my opinion about it...

I mean if we think about it there are many other forums where they discuss things in a more scientific manner, and where they would ban me on a whim ; like the drug-forums, bluelight... etc...

Why I was so hurt by Douglass and God's post is because I really considered their opinion and they gave me precious advice and encouragements when they heard about how hard my life was in the last year (we set our differences aside many times) ; and I know I'm totally responsible for this, which is why I also exposed to you my darker side (like how I spent most of my last years loving woman in webcam chats, trying to learn how not to be so *words are hard to find here* cynic and ironic.

I bit back, and I think I owe apologies for that, because I didn't take enough time to aprehend and realise that both of you guys were in situations as hard as me, perhaps even worse. But seeing you completely refuse my suggestions to help your respective healths got me in such a state I felt more like I was defending my own life than just my right to express myself.

So please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to attack any of you.

Douglas, your suggestions have been very helpful and I'm looking forward to train the practices you suggested me. GOD, your advice to keep my head up after all that happened truely encouraged me to keep talking and expressing myself for what I truely feel, I'm sorry that it goes against your principles, I truely am.

Some people mentioned I laughed, yes I did at some allusions, but other times I twist on my chair and I feel pain and feel like crying, my own pain for exposing myself thus, noone should feel wrong for me, it is my responsibility.

I never hoped that it would reach this magnitude, I actually care deeply for many of you now, but I cannot control love or where it goes, and it seems it decided to hover around here... at least now it does, we're all subjects to it.

I looked at the people posting their pictures thread last night before going to bed, and I don't know if you realise how many of you look alike, not only in the soul and in passion, but in the body too... I think about CM, Meduzz, Tiax and others...

I hope you will not all really leave, because of me who dosen't even expose myself in pictures because my country (but its deeper than that) dosen't accept people like me and I'd rather not be identified (its my own preference that if I meet you visually, I will be there walking with you). So in that way I should not have so much weight upon your consciousnesses... lets all take a deep breath, I think we should reconsider.

Thanks for your post, Aya, I think this helps. I believe you are a good guy although your messages are often very cryptic. I don't and won't believe everything you say, I hope you accept this. I am sorry for your medical stance and wish you well. And please, if you really mean what you say, change your means of communication. I want to read your posts without considering myself either an idiot that doesn't understand or you a """loony""" who tries to make fun.

EDIT: CM, your community theory... I understand it but I doubt if it really works with an internet community.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

If this doesnt get settled and doesnt stop now

I already told you it would be discussed next Tuesday, or before if there is an intervention. Moreover it's something the community as a whole must settle, this is not something I can fix.

What about the proposed banning of Ahuayenjxs? You say it's not necessary, others have said it is. I wonder how everyone (including Douglas) feels about the situation now.

GOD, I apologize for often being too serious or grave to handle your sense of humor the way many others do without effort, especially the sarcasm. I know you have a heart of gold, and that you never meant to hurt my feelings, as your intent is never to hurt the feelings of others. Sorry for all the missteps I may have made in that regard.

 

[GOD]

I already said what i think of him . I`m sure he understands . I`m not into censoring anyone and as was said everyone is entitled to their neurosis but they arent entitled to rub it in peoples faces . Freedom of speach is one thing and continualy leading us round like a pig with a ring through his nose is another .

Wotsit . I`m sure you can be of great value to this comunity but only if you stop playing games so much . Over the last few troubled days you have proved that you can so dont be a cunt and start again PLEASE .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

EDIT: CM, your community theory... I understand it but I doubt if it really works with an internet community.

Yes, it's a much more fragile situation, but we are all united as psychonauts, something that transcends our accounts, so we must figure out how to get along. And remember, it's not that I'm using those four stages as a guideline, I really read those things for the first time in years (eight actually) when I posted them. The thing I posted yesterday accurately describes much of what occured here, but I had no idea beforehand! The only thing I remembered was that chaos are natural phases of community building and maintenance. It was upon being asked about my views on community, that I decided to dig up some quotes.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yes indeed it will work but not the same way ; you cannot force anyone to remain into the room here.

So naturally it's more fragile, but some people will stick out and say, "this is my community" and the bonds will extend far beyond the mere chatting and static messages.

Thats what we hope to see here. When I came here I didn't know it was so big of a site, with so much people, I don't know why, but I tought it would be 10 times smaller, thus my reactions.

 

[restin]

Yes, it's a much more fragile situation, but we are all united as psychonauts, something that transcends our accounts, so we must figure out how to get along. And remember, it's not that I'm using those four stages as a guideline, I really read those things for the first time in years (eight actually) when I posted them. The thing I posted yesterday accurately describes much of what occured here, but I had no idea beforehand! The only thing I remembered was that chaos are natural phases of community building and maintenance. It was upon being asked about my views on community, that I decided to dig up some quotes.

I was surprised as well, I must say. I never heard about this book before... And of course I know that you are not naive and think that these guidelines are a step by step recipe, I wanted to point out exactly what you said- the fragility. It is also the case that even though we are psychonauts and know each other long, we don't really know each other. Recently, I was surprised by the reactions of many of you and I realized how weak I knew you. Therefore, I fear, that there won't be any profound heart relation in this community. Which nothing but natural.

 

[GOD]

I think that there is a positive side to the troubles we as a comunity have had . That the whole world has had the chance to see that we are a diferent comunity than any other ,. That people can come here and say what they want so long as they dont break the rules to much or be to much of a pain in the arse for the whole comunity . I also think we have shown that if anyone has anything to say about any of the moderator / administrator teams that they can without being zaped back into yesterday . It not like that on any other web site i have been on . On the others there always seems to me to be a false hyerachy where one is expected lick arse or to kow tow to the moderators and administrators . I think that we have shown that we dont need any outside controll and that we can clear up our issues amongst ourselves . = we are a democratic comumity .

That doesnt mean to say we shouldnt be trying to find the lost chemical thread and trollises lost acount . This is not the bermuda triangle .

 

[druglessdouglas]

CM i apologise to you for slandering astrology. i was trying to get you to delete my account.

i do understand where Ahuaeynjxs is comming from. i have been there. sorry Ahuaeynjxs you have not discovered anything new. its my belief you are heading into a dead end.
you are entitled to believe anything you like but if you claim devine powers i will attempt to ground you. i have a good map of the terratory you are exploring. it is full of lions and tigers and bears. unfortunately my map is of little use to you and you must draw your own. i hope you understand what i am saying.
i had no problem with the content of your posts but with the way they were presented. think the tower in tarot. build it too tall and it will fall

as for the way i come accross. it is a cultural thing. i am scottish. my family were tribal untill 1820. be thankfull im not stealing your cattle and drinking your whisky. i will try and be moderate but you will have to excuse the odd atavistic outburst

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

:heart:

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

My family is Irish/native and we have no idea where the irish came from, or do I ? It is said it was an orphan that was found and raised by native people 8)

Of course I know what you mean, but I don't appreciate your being secretive about any parts, I don't trust mystics... withholding power in this manner is not going to get you anywhere.

I'm an adolescent, I build towers and destroy them for fun... and I don't need any map because I built those realms, piece by piece. Now that dosen't give me any divine power, you're right, even out there I have none anymore ; and besides I'm not trying to explore those territories at all, but clean them of people who abuse them for their own pleasure, men and woman. They have built castles and bunkers there to give way to their fantasies, so we're seeking them out and basically shutting them off, nothing very sorcerous.

Now if you're one of them I haven't made up my mind yet, we'll see, I have a feeling you have more class than that, but I cannot judge your mind.

Now there is another realm which noone have any complete map of, far from it, thats where you should be ! Even if you only decide to build a house and not explore, it's still where you should be... Sorry but thats not whiskey, it's honey... but do help yourself, although I cannot guarantee the cattle will take kindly to being abducted. :lol:

I'm not your mother, you do what you want :roll:

No further disagreement on my part !

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

CM i apologise to you for slandering astrology. i was trying to get you to delete my account.

I'm quite used to people slandering astrology. I find people praising or believing in newspaper astrology just as meaninless. I have no interest in turning anyone into an astrologer like myself and I'm definitely not interested in doing readings. It just happens to come up in my conversations now and then because from my perspective there are ties between it and psychedelics. Or between it and the free will versus predetermination debate. Just like for you and Ahuaeynjxs there are ties between martial arts and psychedelics or tantra and psychedelics (about which you have disagreed, just like I disagreed with him about Venus in the Veda's, and a 13th constellation in astrology).

The idea that I supported him because we had similar views or that I literally understood everything he wrote in the Sun thread is not correct. Often I had no idea what he was talking about (Sirius B) or I wasn't interested (Atlantis), though perhaps I was advantaged by already knowing a bit about donuts. By now I have a general idea of the things he keeps returning to, how a certain number of subjects are interrelated (hence his 'cryptic' answers).

The thing about being reborn as a star (or already being one), I know it sounds far fetched and out of it, but a recent documentary related exactly that to the DMT research of Rick Strassman. It's a short documentary, leaving out any discussions of mushroom pillars in Egypt. There are some rumours the Egyptians used mushrooms. Ahuaeynjxs keeps pointing at ingesting the living Amanita mushroom (drinking the cold water extraction, eating the mushroom and mycelium) and becoming your own star. Now I'm not someone to easily adopt the belief in being reborn as a star or on a star. As you know, in recent times even the idea of reincarnation ceased to make sense to me. But I'm curious to learn about the theory, or this aspect of the theology of the Egyptians (and others?).

Indeed, none of this may be new, except for the dreamword Ahuaeynjxs has created within himself (and us) that may or may not be useful to us. I think Ahuaeynjxs is a very unusual individual, considering his age. I don't ascribe any divine powers to him, except for the ones we all have to one degree (of arc?) or another. We have a couple of gifted individuals on this forum (and lurking), and I think he's definitely one of them.

I think the new dissociatives thread would be a suitable place to discuss the distinctions between reality, preception, visions, ascension, dreams and delusions.

Regarding the deleting of an account, we do delete accounts on request, but if it's an active member, he or she must first refrain from posting for a couple of months. That was the deal we made with Powertripper last year.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Yeah just to add a little to that : I do not say that you trip and become your own sun, star inhabiting requires a very balanced body, mind and also a peaceful soul that is not deafened by a thousand ancestors yelling for their lost story to be heard.

So it's a long process, without rituals, without sectarian organisation ; it's achieved through ascension and symbiosis with the amanita.

You can still be human and "inhabit" your star... everyone is one already, although that only holds much relevance for adolescents, and adults which haven't yet been honored by eternal marriage.

For adults the name of the soul is much more important because thats what tells you who you really are, because as you get to know your name you have special dreams (they're not dreams as you're not within yourself, you're within the earth central "sun", which is not a scientifically accepted idea btw) Not inner earth but the fact that the earth was a small star before it hardened... I doubt this theory but anyways.

It seems I haven't expressed myself well enough yet :S

 

[Pariah]

Just popped my head into the forum after a break from the madness, and there has been some sort of temporary resolution on this thread, theres still no useful consensus for the long term in my opinion though.

My main gripes with the esoteric takeover we've seen (people have already mentioned some, but I'll include them anyway) :

Esoteric comments have blemished certain subjects that *require* a scientific approach - when talking about drugs / chemistry, misinformation can kill.

Any questions asked about the topics receive incoherent answers, and there is a general unwillingness to help others understand where their position comes from.

People taking criticism personally - we're all adults here (most of us anyway), so instead of getting upset, try to look at whats *really* being said - the substance of the criticism, and address it, if no substance can be found - say so: ie. "what's your point".


For those that say "just ignore it", an analogy: If you saw a friend or family member being converted to something which you had good reason to believe is BS (eg. scientology), you'd want to help give them the information they need to make an informed opinion.

This analogy works on many different levels - there are people on this forum who are in danger of taking esoterics seriously, without being properly informed about the logical pitfalls inherent in it.

On another level I'm talking about the forum in general - as a "functioning" community I think there is a balance required between belief and knowledge - both are good things in my opinion, but people need to be respectful of the limits of each. I think that the limits of belief have been overstepped far to often recently.

Forum members have been alienated by aggressive proseltysing of belief. I assume I'm not the only one that feels this way? This only serves to further imbalance the scope of opinion here.

Are we agreed that this alienation is happening? Are we agreed that something must be done about it?

I would like my mind put at ease about the things I've mentioned - either an explanation of why my points are invalid, why the behaviour is acceptable, or assurance that it will be kept in check / something is being done about it.

This is mainly aimed at aha..thingmy (I'll call you charley from now on if you don't mind), but could well apply to myself and others - I admit I have been a bit vitriolic with my language concerning esoterics in a reactionary sense, but if there is an effort on the part of others to address the issues I've raised, I shouldn't be so harsh (and if I am you can tell me off! ).


Please consider and comment on what I've said - either address the points I've made, or suggest another psychedelics forum I might be interested in.