Etherbunny
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 10/10/08
- Messages
- 256
BananaPancake a dit:
Kinda hurts my eyes 2. But great advice, so blaze away if it's what you like to do (unless a mod says stop lol).
So, Birdseed or Rye? I'll be using Cambodian spores this time, I've heard they take longer to colonize and fruit but are well worth the wait.
Also any beginners tips to growing cyanescens? I have the makings of an amateur mycology set up, so I'd like to find a way to 'extract' the mycelium as it develops to study it personally. Any grow tips? Not looking for high yield flushes, just contam free specimens at the end of colonization. Never intend to fruit any of these anyway.
Would at fluctuating temp of btw 78F - 86F effect mycelium growth? It varies every couple days, not multiple times a day. I can artificially control the temp, but was wondering if this could emulate natural conditions.
Thanks again for all your help guys; and now for my flame question ... what happened to god? I missed him leaving ... took a break to finish my degree in IT Management and career related certs. Anyway, if I can help w/ any questions ... I do have book smarts on the subject, just not much hands on success.
Peace and love,
Etherbunny
You don't mention which cyanescens you're talking about growing. There is plenty of advice online for both psilo and pan cyans. You should try to keep your incubation temperature around 86F for maximum growth rate during incubation. Inoculate petri dishes with the prints if you want to study the mycelium. Also, consider buying Roger Rabbits 'How to grow mushrooms' DVD. It's excellent and he deserve the money for the effort he puts in to help people.
Etherbunny
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 10/10/08
- Messages
- 256
Cool good advice. Was referring to the pans. I'll check out that DVD for sure.
i've heard that too high over 86 will slow growth and that relative to 75-85 is optimal. lower than 75 and slowed growth, higher, the same thing. probably best to stay in the middle of this range... also, a glove box should work just fine, depending on how much time you put into doing the whole thing right..
Etherbunny
Elfe Mécanique
- Inscrit
- 10/10/08
- Messages
- 256
I'll just put them on the back burner for a while. I'm taking a new look at things.
Substrate density is one big variable that I think a lot of people overlook. If it's too fluffy, you won't get solid cakes. If it's too dense, it'll take forever to populate; or never manage it. Another, related, factor is substrate 'stickyness'. If you're using grains in particular, you need to rinse them really well. With things like bird seed, I was stunned by how dirty the water was that came off it. I had to rinse it multiple times in liters of warm water to shift it. Bird seed is a pain to use in my experience. Rye or something like that is easier. Flour on vermiculite is the easiest.
I agree, the bag looks too damp. You shouldn't really have drops of condensation all over the inside. Contaminations LOVE puddles of water. I've had so many jars go nasty and the contamination is usually at the bottom, where it's too damp. So overly damp substrate seems to encourage fails. Making your substrate slightly alkaline will also make it nicer for the psilocybe and nastier for the fungal contaminants. I've done quite a few jars in the uncleaned kitchen. I lost a few, but it worked as well as my glove box efforts. Also, the amount of time it saved meant I wasn't too bothered about loosing one or two. But, I can't say this without boasting, I do work extremely smooth, quick and clean when doing that kind of thing. I find it helps if I imagine the germs and spores in the air are like clouds of ultra toxic bright dye floating around. My goal is to keep it out of the jars, off my hands and off the equipment. I sequence every move of my hands so's to transfer the least amount of contamination. I think it's probably easier to go for safety in numbers. I can buy smooth taper pint glasses, brown rice and vermiculite for next to nothing. I've had the most success quickly doing up a whole bunch and then getting busy with the syringe. As opposed to rinsing grain, cooking it, rerinsing it... And yes, that picture is ridiculously huge. Upload to one of the free image hosts and click 'resize to 640'.
Another 'trick' I use is to make up the substrate using dilute sugar. 3% I think from memory. Brown sugar, honey or even plain white sugar will work. This can help accelerate the initial growth phase by providing the myeclium with simple carbohydrates that it doesn't need to digest before taking them up. If you make it too concentrated, the spores will never go past germination. This method also makes it easier for germs and contaminant spores to set up home before the psilocybe, so you need to be even more thorough, smooth, quick and clean. If you're busy sourcing ingredients, you might want to start the spores off on 3% sugar whilst you get busy sterilizing and cooling. Let your damp media incubate for a day or two before sterilizing it. That'll germinate the hard to kill contaminant spores, which will then be exponentially easier to kill once hatched.
Another 'trick' I use is to make up the substrate using dilute sugar. 3% I think from memory. Brown sugar, honey or even plain white sugar will work. This can help accelerate the initial growth phase by providing the myeclium with simple carbohydrates that it doesn't need to digest before taking them up. If you make it too concentrated, the spores will never go past germination. This method also makes it easier for germs and contaminant spores to set up home before the psilocybe, so you need to be even more thorough, smooth, quick and clean. If you're busy sourcing ingredients, you might want to start the spores off on 3% sugar whilst you get busy sterilizing and cooling. Let your damp media incubate for a day or two before sterilizing it. That'll germinate the hard to kill contaminant spores, which will then be exponentially easier to kill once hatched.
peach a dit:
i have noticed in cooking brown rice, that i have to rinse it a good 4 or more times to get all that shit off, that's a good point to consider. in using the flour on vermiculite method, what sort of weight ratio of flour to vermiculite are we talking about here? i've got plenty at home
... and would that be for spawn cakes of for the actual growing substrate? thanks in advance
Depends what kind of cooking you're talking about and when you're doing the rinsing. If you mean when you're cooking your dinner and that you rinse it afterwards, that'll be starch. People do the same rinsing trick with sliced potatoes to stop them being all stodgy when you bake them. Or they'll rinse cooked pasta with some boiling water to get the stickyness off it, which is starch again.
In terms of making up cakes, I never bother weighing the stuff out.
Put your brown rice in the food processor or blender and grind the living shit out of it. It can take AGES in those two. A better option is a coffee grinder. Preferably one of those ones that has a cap you take off and then there's a pair of high speed blades you can poke with your finger. It may seem small, but it'll powder it in seconds. You can also pick the coffee grinder up and shake it to speed it up even more. I used to put jaw breaker candies in ours and grind them to dust, then lick it up.
Sieve it. You want fine particles, not big lumps. Don't go crazy though, it doesn't need to be like baking flour; which might help clump up your media.
I drench the vermiculite in boiling water, or boil it up in a pan (MUCH BETTER), then dump it into a sieve and let it drain. Do that before starting your rice grinding, so it has a good chance to drain. Cover the sieve with a big pan lid, foil or film so it doesn't have shit from the air falling on it as it drains, and so it doesn't completely dry out.
Remember that the vermiculite has come out of an extremely hot kiln and gone straight into reasonably clean bags. The kiln will have been around a thousand degrees and killed everything on the vermiculite, even things autoclaves, ethylene oxide or radiation won't kill. So it's super clean when it's in the bag. Once it comes out, you should try to treat it aseptically, hence hydrating it with boiling water and covering it to retain that level of cleanliness. I used to tape the bags closed again after I'd used them. And not just because I kept accidentally emptying them out.
If you boil the vermiculite in a big pot, all the super fine dust that would clump up your media will fall to the bottom, and you can scoop the big particles off from the top. Top tip! :idea:
Once you have your damp (but well drained) vermiculite and your flour, choose a big mixing bowl and give that a rinse with some boiling water too; don't bleach or chemically clean things that'll contact the media as chlorine is extremely good at slowing down or killing myeclium and it's not necessary when boiling water will work (you should also consider filtering the water you use to hydrate the vermiculite). Dump in the vermiculite and start spooning on the flour. Wear some new latex gloves or use a spoon that's been rinsed with boiling water to give it a really good stir or mix as you go. Once it's all coated and the flour has started falling to the bottom, it's done. Don't pile on loads or you'll make a sticky lump, or dry it out too much.
Filling more jars or cups with less material is better than a few with lots in it. That way, contaminations mean less. And the longer it takes to fully colonize the higher than chances of a contamination establishing are. Also, even with no contaminations present and ideal growth conditions, psilocybe mycelium will usually slow down or even stop once you start trying to grow it through large batches. It seems to instinctively get ready for fruiting around a certain network size.
Your jars or glasses should have been rinsed with boiling water and allowed to dry. Turn them upside down to let them dry so airborne shit won't fall into them. Don't use a towel or tissue paper since you'll be wiping germs and spores all over the inside. A kitchen towel is about the most germ ridden thing in your home, seriously. Other than you of coarse, the perfect germ incubator.
I'm terms of packing the mix, you can do away with that if your vermiculite is a small grain size as it'll pack it's self quite well, give them a bit of a wiggle and tap them on the surface to help it settle. If it still has large gaps in it, use the bottom of a glass (cleaned with boiling water) and place it on the surface. You will barely need to press down. If you push with anything more than gentle fingertip pressure, you're fucking it up. Imagine you're playing with an 18 year old virgin, about that much pressure.
Incubating before sterilizing not only hatches the contaminating spores into a more easily sterilized form, it causes the enzymes in the rice to begin breaking down some of the carbohydrates and reforming them into amino acids or proteins, creating a more nutritionally complex dinner for the mushrooms.
The minute the mix is done, spoon it out into the jars or glasses and immediately foil them over. Put them in your incubator (a plastic box that's been bleached or rinsed with boiling water), cover, let them sit somewhere warm for a day or two. Sterilize. Inoculate. Straight into the incubator. Cover. Keep them dark and warm. Never breath over them, never touch them without alcohol washed gloves on. Don't take them out and stare at them, breathing germs all over them. You should only be touching them if you can't see any colonization. Ignore and do not touch, more than once every week or two at most (and only if they seem to have stalled), until fully colonized.
In terms of making up cakes, I never bother weighing the stuff out.
Put your brown rice in the food processor or blender and grind the living shit out of it. It can take AGES in those two. A better option is a coffee grinder. Preferably one of those ones that has a cap you take off and then there's a pair of high speed blades you can poke with your finger. It may seem small, but it'll powder it in seconds. You can also pick the coffee grinder up and shake it to speed it up even more. I used to put jaw breaker candies in ours and grind them to dust, then lick it up.
Sieve it. You want fine particles, not big lumps. Don't go crazy though, it doesn't need to be like baking flour; which might help clump up your media.
I drench the vermiculite in boiling water, or boil it up in a pan (MUCH BETTER), then dump it into a sieve and let it drain. Do that before starting your rice grinding, so it has a good chance to drain. Cover the sieve with a big pan lid, foil or film so it doesn't have shit from the air falling on it as it drains, and so it doesn't completely dry out.
Remember that the vermiculite has come out of an extremely hot kiln and gone straight into reasonably clean bags. The kiln will have been around a thousand degrees and killed everything on the vermiculite, even things autoclaves, ethylene oxide or radiation won't kill. So it's super clean when it's in the bag. Once it comes out, you should try to treat it aseptically, hence hydrating it with boiling water and covering it to retain that level of cleanliness. I used to tape the bags closed again after I'd used them. And not just because I kept accidentally emptying them out.
If you boil the vermiculite in a big pot, all the super fine dust that would clump up your media will fall to the bottom, and you can scoop the big particles off from the top. Top tip! :idea:
Once you have your damp (but well drained) vermiculite and your flour, choose a big mixing bowl and give that a rinse with some boiling water too; don't bleach or chemically clean things that'll contact the media as chlorine is extremely good at slowing down or killing myeclium and it's not necessary when boiling water will work (you should also consider filtering the water you use to hydrate the vermiculite). Dump in the vermiculite and start spooning on the flour. Wear some new latex gloves or use a spoon that's been rinsed with boiling water to give it a really good stir or mix as you go. Once it's all coated and the flour has started falling to the bottom, it's done. Don't pile on loads or you'll make a sticky lump, or dry it out too much.
Filling more jars or cups with less material is better than a few with lots in it. That way, contaminations mean less. And the longer it takes to fully colonize the higher than chances of a contamination establishing are. Also, even with no contaminations present and ideal growth conditions, psilocybe mycelium will usually slow down or even stop once you start trying to grow it through large batches. It seems to instinctively get ready for fruiting around a certain network size.
Your jars or glasses should have been rinsed with boiling water and allowed to dry. Turn them upside down to let them dry so airborne shit won't fall into them. Don't use a towel or tissue paper since you'll be wiping germs and spores all over the inside. A kitchen towel is about the most germ ridden thing in your home, seriously. Other than you of coarse, the perfect germ incubator.
I'm terms of packing the mix, you can do away with that if your vermiculite is a small grain size as it'll pack it's self quite well, give them a bit of a wiggle and tap them on the surface to help it settle. If it still has large gaps in it, use the bottom of a glass (cleaned with boiling water) and place it on the surface. You will barely need to press down. If you push with anything more than gentle fingertip pressure, you're fucking it up. Imagine you're playing with an 18 year old virgin, about that much pressure.
Incubating before sterilizing not only hatches the contaminating spores into a more easily sterilized form, it causes the enzymes in the rice to begin breaking down some of the carbohydrates and reforming them into amino acids or proteins, creating a more nutritionally complex dinner for the mushrooms.
The minute the mix is done, spoon it out into the jars or glasses and immediately foil them over. Put them in your incubator (a plastic box that's been bleached or rinsed with boiling water), cover, let them sit somewhere warm for a day or two. Sterilize. Inoculate. Straight into the incubator. Cover. Keep them dark and warm. Never breath over them, never touch them without alcohol washed gloves on. Don't take them out and stare at them, breathing germs all over them. You should only be touching them if you can't see any colonization. Ignore and do not touch, more than once every week or two at most (and only if they seem to have stalled), until fully colonized.
So im sure everyone has seen those little zip up green houses right?
im going to use one as the fruiting chamber of my mushroom grow but i have a question.
i was going to use the bottom shelf to put wet perlite on(therefore humidifying the greenhouse). but will that be enough?
or should i get a humidifier? the unit is about 1' x 2.5' x 5'
also, where should i put the reciever for my thermomiter/hydrometer? i have it up by the top shelf of the greenhouse, but should i put it at the bottom to get the minimum reading?
im going to use one as the fruiting chamber of my mushroom grow but i have a question.
i was going to use the bottom shelf to put wet perlite on(therefore humidifying the greenhouse). but will that be enough?
or should i get a humidifier? the unit is about 1' x 2.5' x 5'
also, where should i put the reciever for my thermomiter/hydrometer? i have it up by the top shelf of the greenhouse, but should i put it at the bottom to get the minimum reading?
I think it's more likely you'll overcook the shrooms, so I'd go with putting it at the top. If it gets a little too cold, it'll just slow things down. If it gets too warm, you could nuke them into giving up.
I've not used a tent, but I have used perlite before. Provided the tent is leak proof, I'm sure it'll get steamy in there. Make sure it's well spread out in the biggest tray you can fit in there. Keep it constantly soaked. I'd recommend soaking it with water that's been boiled, just to give yourself the very best chances of avoiding contamination.
Stick an aquarium heater in the perlite and warm it up if you're not getting enough humidity with it alone. I'd also recommend getting a nice deep tray, or even one of those space saving plastic boxes, as the water can disappear quite quickly and you don't want to be constantly opening the tent to fill it up (that'll invite contamination). A deep tray or box will let you pour tons of perlite in and a lot more water, reducing the number of times it'll need topping up.
Guys who use perlite in fruiting chambers do so because they need to balance the cakes on top of it. Otherwise, they'd have shroom ships floating around. If you're using a tent, you might get away with filling the tray / bucket with water and warming it.
Actually, considering that a main issue with fruiting cakes in a chamber is that they dry out and need redunking, it makes me wonder if shroom ships would perform better than cakes on perlite. The water would need to be kept extremely clean (no opening the lid to poke them and maybe a little peroxide in the mix). You could mold them into little models of the world's flagships, or Nigerian pirates sailing on shipping containers. Arhhhh! Pirat-ehy shrooms. Or pleasure yachts with strippers. That'd be sweeeeeet! A future project for Roger Rabbit.
I've not used a tent, but I have used perlite before. Provided the tent is leak proof, I'm sure it'll get steamy in there. Make sure it's well spread out in the biggest tray you can fit in there. Keep it constantly soaked. I'd recommend soaking it with water that's been boiled, just to give yourself the very best chances of avoiding contamination.
Stick an aquarium heater in the perlite and warm it up if you're not getting enough humidity with it alone. I'd also recommend getting a nice deep tray, or even one of those space saving plastic boxes, as the water can disappear quite quickly and you don't want to be constantly opening the tent to fill it up (that'll invite contamination). A deep tray or box will let you pour tons of perlite in and a lot more water, reducing the number of times it'll need topping up.
Guys who use perlite in fruiting chambers do so because they need to balance the cakes on top of it. Otherwise, they'd have shroom ships floating around. If you're using a tent, you might get away with filling the tray / bucket with water and warming it.
Actually, considering that a main issue with fruiting cakes in a chamber is that they dry out and need redunking, it makes me wonder if shroom ships would perform better than cakes on perlite. The water would need to be kept extremely clean (no opening the lid to poke them and maybe a little peroxide in the mix). You could mold them into little models of the world's flagships, or Nigerian pirates sailing on shipping containers. Arhhhh! Pirat-ehy shrooms. Or pleasure yachts with strippers. That'd be sweeeeeet! A future project for Roger Rabbit.
Lmao ur funny man.
and idk if it changes much but im using rye casings instead of cakes.
well i did a dry run yesterday(without mushrooms) just to see my temps, and its from 73-77 in there without me trying to control the temp, so thats good. as far as humidity goes i couldnt get it over 85%. but the bottom of the tent isnt sealed up yet, so im sure i lost alot outta the openings. when the mushrooms go in, the bottom will be taped down. but i havnt pulled up the carpet yet so im not going to tape it down as of now.
so ive got the temps down in my incubator and my tent. my next problem is spores...
i ordered b+ and golden teachers from magicplants dot co dot uk..
i diddnt reasearch the site or look for reviews.. and now that ive allread payed them.. the only reviews i can find is that they dont send anything out, and that they are the new legalhighs website :S.
and i wont be able to order more for atleast 2 or 3 weeks. im pissed so pissed off.
anyone wana spare a spore print?
and idk if it changes much but im using rye casings instead of cakes.
well i did a dry run yesterday(without mushrooms) just to see my temps, and its from 73-77 in there without me trying to control the temp, so thats good. as far as humidity goes i couldnt get it over 85%. but the bottom of the tent isnt sealed up yet, so im sure i lost alot outta the openings. when the mushrooms go in, the bottom will be taped down. but i havnt pulled up the carpet yet so im not going to tape it down as of now.
so ive got the temps down in my incubator and my tent. my next problem is spores...
i ordered b+ and golden teachers from magicplants dot co dot uk..
i diddnt reasearch the site or look for reviews.. and now that ive allread payed them.. the only reviews i can find is that they dont send anything out, and that they are the new legalhighs website :S.
and i wont be able to order more for atleast 2 or 3 weeks. im pissed so pissed off.
anyone wana spare a spore print?
"I've got your $$$ trick... buw ha ha ha ha!"
If you're worried about contamination from the carpet, buy some polythene decorators sheeting from the hardware store and tape that over the bottom, preferably the heavy grade.
If your humidity won't go up, submersible heater in the perlite.
These alternative stores can vary a huge amount, even from order to order. Some of them are amazingly quick, others will essentially steal your money. Sometimes I'm sure the staff go on a cannabis / alcohol / drugs / get pissed off binge and just never reply for weeks.
If you ordered them on Monday or Tuesday of this week, give them a call and an email to say you really need them quick. Earlier than last week, DEFINITELY call and email.
Just in case they forget to send your order for weeks or months and they decide to not answer your calls or emails, in a desperate situation, you want to talk to a Miss Caroline P Bertos. I believe this is her home number and address;
020 7708 2293
32 Keats Ho Elmington Est, London, SE5 7JA
She's on Facebook too;
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=570122243&ref=ts
Look into the eyes of your enemy...
Enjoy!
If you're worried about contamination from the carpet, buy some polythene decorators sheeting from the hardware store and tape that over the bottom, preferably the heavy grade.
If your humidity won't go up, submersible heater in the perlite.
These alternative stores can vary a huge amount, even from order to order. Some of them are amazingly quick, others will essentially steal your money. Sometimes I'm sure the staff go on a cannabis / alcohol / drugs / get pissed off binge and just never reply for weeks.
If you ordered them on Monday or Tuesday of this week, give them a call and an email to say you really need them quick. Earlier than last week, DEFINITELY call and email.
Just in case they forget to send your order for weeks or months and they decide to not answer your calls or emails, in a desperate situation, you want to talk to a Miss Caroline P Bertos. I believe this is her home number and address;
020 7708 2293
32 Keats Ho Elmington Est, London, SE5 7JA
She's on Facebook too;
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=570122243&ref=ts
Look into the eyes of your enemy...
Enjoy!
I believe so.
Keep in mind that there is a big difference between trying to contact someone and harassing or threatening them. The latter can get you into serious trouble.
It's also quite likely her boyfriend or someone she knows has had her put her name down on the paperwork. But as the paperwork address matches with the one on the site, and there's only one Bertos in London (and their first name happens to begin with a C), that's almost certainly her. Look at her facebook details as well, London, Single (and the magic plants site is owned by Miss C Bertos, from London).
Keep in mind that there is a big difference between trying to contact someone and harassing or threatening them. The latter can get you into serious trouble.
It's also quite likely her boyfriend or someone she knows has had her put her name down on the paperwork. But as the paperwork address matches with the one on the site, and there's only one Bertos in London (and their first name happens to begin with a C), that's almost certainly her. Look at her facebook details as well, London, Single (and the magic plants site is owned by Miss C Bertos, from London).
i dont plan on harrassing anyone. but when the number to their site is a cell phone that never gets picked up and the address to their shop is a laundrymat or some shit.. a number to an actual person is a gift from god lmao.
its 3:52am though. so ill wait till daytime hours to call.
EDIT.. how in the hell did you manage to find that info?!
its 3:52am though. so ill wait till daytime hours to call.
EDIT.. how in the hell did you manage to find that info?!
