Money

[Meduzz]

Well put

 

[restin]

thanks :wink: I like lasagne

Edit to avoid doublepost.

A thought that came into my mind:

If you don't like money, don't use it. Nobody forces you to stay where you are, you can go and live in a forest, norwegian forests are very beautiful for example.

The clue is, if you live in this society, you have to play the game (unfortunately). When in Rome, do as the romans do. Money is a rule of the system.

If you want a revolution by saying that you know the truth, there are two problems.

1. You get to the same niveau as Robespierre, Guevara, Lenin and other revolutionists. They all claimed to know "the truth". There is no problem in having a certain position, no, it is much better to think on your own. The problem comes, when you force your truth on others. The result of a revolution might be positive, but also negative. The outcome of a revolution is very uncertain. E.g. take the French Revolution- the liberator of the folks, Robespierre, became a fanatic of Terror.

2. No one wants a revolution. As long as one can live comfortable, the people won't want any revolution. Revolutions are inconvenient- you can't go to your local shop, can't chat, have to be ready to be killed. Sadly, the Romans were right: bread and circuses,bread and circuses.

 

[Psyolopher]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... debt&hl=en


Dont know if this has been posted before!
But an intersting piece of pie it is!

 

[psm]

The problem is, you dream of a perfect world. You think that it is the nature of human beings of being compassionate and good, ust because you think you are.

I don't think that people are anything by nature. It is how they are brought up. How they are programmed and conditioned. And as people are conditioned to be egomanic, ignorant, assholes, they can be conditioned to be compassionate, caring and responsible too.

...Money is not bad , the badness asociateed with money comes from how some people use it...

The initial money is not at all bad, nor a bad idea. I completely agree. But today, money is not controlled by the people. Money does not have any real value associated with it anymore. Money, as we use it today, is under control of above mentioned assholes. Today money is a way to control people.

 

[restin]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... debt&hl=en

VERY interesting movie, I will finish watching it and think about it.

The initial money is not at all bad, nor a bad idea. I completely agree. But today, money is not controlled by the people. Money does not have any real value associated with it anymore. Money, as we use it today, is under control of above mentioned assholes. Today money is a way to control people.

cool, so we basically agree, that money as itself is not evil :wink:

explain me one thing before I follow my line of thoughts scriptually (by writing :wink: ): are you talking about banks? This would illuminate me your thoughts.

 

[psm]

1. You get to the same niveau as Robespierre, Guevara, Lenin and other revolutionists. They all claimed to know "the truth". There is no problem in having a certain position, no, it is much better to think on your own. The problem comes, when you force your truth on others. The result of a revolution might be positive, but also negative. The outcome of a revolution is very uncertain. E.g. take the French Revolution- the liberator of the folks, Robespierre, became a fanatic of Terror.

2. No one wants a revolution. As long as one can live comfortable, the people won't want any revolution. Revolutions are inconvenient- you can't go to your local shop, can't chat, have to be ready to be killed. Sadly, the Romans were right: bread and circuses,bread and circuses.

I would add two more problems:

3. Modern propaganda made real revolutionaries unlikely in western society. The moment someone would gather enough people and/or power to pull a revolution, media would cut him down. That person would be subject to all sorts of defaming claims.

4. The so called "Individualism" will prevent anyone to gather a really big group to actually achieve something. While a small group can share a common believe, a big group would have to be brainwashed, otherwise, only a few subjects would be common ground. And that is not enough for a real revolution. And a brainwashed mass will become what history has shown to be something we should avoid.

I will add a 5th problem, to follow the rule of 5:

5. If a revolution occurs, it should be global. It should better the life of everybody. And it should not leave out anyone. And that would be the hardest of problems to overcome. A global consent? Not possible in the typical sense of revolution...

 

[psm]

explain me one thing before I follow my line of thoughts scriptually (by writing :wink: ): are you talking about banks? This would illuminate me your thoughts.

It is not that simply. But yes, banks are the front of the controlling power.

 

[restin]

goooooooooood. Was it that hard? Instead of a massive amount of statements that make nothing clear, ONE person posted a video and bling, I find out that we talk about different topics. Lion asked if money is necessary at all. psm says money, as it is handled today is unnecessary. GOD argues that money is an important exchange medium. I say that our system of capitalism is built up on money.

That's why I can say:

The video totally surprised and amazed me. It made many points clear and atm I can't argue against it. So, I can say that I agree with psm.

I don't agree with Lion, as I believe that money as an exchange medium is vital.

cloudy, literal sentences sound cool and intelligence but don't bring light into darkness...

 

[psm]

goooooooooood. Was it that hard? Instead of a massive amount of statements that make nothing clear, ONE person posted a video and bling,...

Yes, the movie explains it very good. I haven't seen that one yet, tho.
It also shows the original idea and the modern version.


I did say at one point that in the movie Zeitgeist, they show quiet well what I was referring to. If you have not seen it yet (I thought most here would have):
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Yes, money is a vital part of today economy, but only because it relies on it. There are different methods and smarted people then us came up with plans how to completely eradicate money, changing to a system were "not working" is the norm and you would still have a decent life. Yes, it is utopia, but for me it is the world we should try to create.

 

[restin]

Haven't seen the movie, will be tonight's entertainment 8)

The only thing we can do is forcing the banks creating more money, so the system collapses. Only possibility for a revolution is a collapse...

hehe the thought feels like in the ol' days 8)

 

[Lion]

Haven't seen the movie, will be tonight's entertainment 8)

The only thing we can do is forcing the banks creating more money, so the system collapses. Only possibility for a revolution is a collapse...

hehe the thought feels like in the ol' days 8)

how do you wanna do that?

 

[psm]

Haven't seen the movie, will be tonight's entertainment 8)

The only thing we can do is forcing the banks creating more money, so the system collapses. Only possibility for a revolution is a collapse...

hehe the thought feels like in the ol' days 8)

how do you wanna do that?

the actual way would be, if everybody would pay back their debt. and it would be the only thing the bank cannot prevent. they can prevent to give out too much and even if they would not, it would still take a long while until it would start to shake the system.

 

[restin]

yepp,for example.

 

[Lion]

Haven't seen the movie, will be tonight's entertainment 8)

The only thing we can do is forcing the banks creating more money, so the system collapses. Only possibility for a revolution is a collapse...

hehe the thought feels like in the ol' days 8)

how do you wanna do that?

the actual way would be, if everybody would pay back their debt. and it would be the only thing the bank cannot prevent. they can prevent to give out too much and even if they would not, it would still take a long while until it would start to shake the system.

good luck achieving that

 

[psm]

good lucking achieving that

I am not aiming for that.

I am aiming for an independent sovereign community, that works out their economy on its own. A small pacific island, or a big piece of land in a distant country. That's what I am working for atm.

 

[silv]

good lucking achieving that

I am not aiming for that.

I am aiming for an independent sovereign community, that works out their economy on its own. A small pacific island, or a big piece of land in a distant country. That's what I am working for atm.

Do you realise how quickly that will either just go bollocks or turn into a sect which is gonna be really disturbing? Or are you a visionairy who will (against human nature that got quite used to the capitalist system) make this work?

 

[restin]

Read "the Beach" and realize why it won't work...

 

[silv]

Read "the Beach" and realize why it won't work...

or let PSM explain why his idea will work contrary to this situation.

 

[restin]

It was an indirect call for an explanation :wink:

I say: humans are humans. That's why it doesn't work.

 

[Brugmansia]

How to escape from inbalance?

Violence, sex, strength, trust, intelligence, water, plants, stones, smartness, capacity to convince, animals can and have been all used as a currency or power to decide the ranks up to a certain point in the history of beings.

There's even inbalance in the universe, some stars go supernova and die, while others never seem to dissapear.

Theoretically we can merely escape from inbalance if time, change and purpose become frozen. 0900-DIALGOD.

Those who think communism is balance are as blind as a bat.