HPPD, anyone?

[Shamanita]

I have it a little bit too, since a period of lsd- & mdma-(ab)use..
It's not just anti-drug propaganda. It does exist, although it's no real big deal, it doesn't drive you insane or something.

As said, especially when i'm tired/stressed/drunk/smoked weed i get that "visual snow". And also sometimes, objects are waving a tiny bit. But no big deal, you can have a normal life when you have HPPD
also, the day after i took lsd; water looks not the same like always. It's no big deal, but it does exist

 

[st.bot.32]

you're more aware of your senses and how they work after you've taken psychedelics. i think god can safely say that HPPD is propaganda, because it takes one of the benefits of psychedelics, the opportunity to learn about yourself and how your senses work, and turns all of that into a negative thing. it claims it is a medical condition, which it isn't. it's made up to psyche people out. hence it is anti-drug war propaganda.

normal people who have never taken psychedelics can experience the same pheonomenon. people who meditate and go into trance experience the same phenomenon, without ever having taken drugs.

 

[GOD]

For fucks sake thickos stop spreading drug war propoganda . I asked questions and if you answer them you must come to the conclusion that HPPD as a disorder doesnt exist . For it to exist it must have a cause . It isnt a disease so its either mental illness or brain damage or some other sort of physical damage caused by hallucinogens . Hallucinogens dont cause any of those things .

What you are saying is on the same level as the adverts with a guy with an egg in his hand who says "this is your brain before takeing hallucinogens" and then breaking it and throwing it is hot fat and saying "and this is your brain afterwards" .

Nobody is saying that the effects that you and the other drug war war criminals throw together and call a disorder dont exist and that you dont have them , but they are not caused by hallucinogens .

As i said do some neutral research and stop makeing paranoid self diagnosies .

 

[toogoodforyou]

For fucks sake thickos stop spreading drug war propoganda . I asked questions and if you answer them you must come to the conclusion that HPPD as a disorder doesnt exist . For it to exist it must have a cause . It isnt a disease so its either mental illness or brain damage or some other sort of physical damage caused by hallucinogens . Hallucinogens dont cause any of those things .

What you are saying is on the same level as the adverts with a guy with an egg in his hand who says "this is your brain before takeing hallucinogens" and then breaking it and throwing it is hot fat and saying "and this is your brain afterwards" .

Nobody is saying that the effects that you and the other drug war war criminals throw together and call a disorder dont exist and that you dont have them , but they are not caused by hallucinogens .

As i said do some neutral research and stop makeing paranoid self diagnosies .

I agree with God & St.bot.32

I myself have similar experiences after a heavy set of squatting.... lol.. something like a free light show. But many people experience this thing although they have never used any psychedelics

 

[maxfreakout]

max, it is drug war propaganda. DSM-IV is very simple and at the same time very 'helpful' to 'the great ills of society'. It is a political book with a lot of 'diseases' to make their own field of study look important.

it is a category error to say that "HPPD is propaganda", you are mixing up the name 'HPPD', with the condition in which people experience lasting visual effects after taking psychedelics.

The name 'HPPD' is inaccurate, for several reasons, but that has nothing to do with the condition that it refers to, which many people experience and which couldnt possibly be said not to exist

If you have the symptoms of HPPD without ever having used psychedelics, it can, I assure you, be classified as something else (psychosis, for example)

if visual effects are experienced without having taken drugs, then that is not HPPD, it is something different. It certainly wouldnt be called 'psychosis' ut it may well be called something else, but that has nothing to do with HPPD, which is only experienced as a resulty of taking drugs

so what would a substance that you took months before and long digested have anything to do with it?

the drug-trip causes HPPD to start, it is a continuous experience which starts right after the trip finishes, and which lasts for a long time.

 

[maxfreakout]

HPPD as a disorder doesnt exist

the name 'HPPD' is inaccurate for several reasons, one of which is that it isnt necessarily a disorder

But it definitely exists in the sense that it is a common experience that visual effects persist after a trip has finished.

For it to exist it must have a cause

The cause of HPPD is taking psychedelics

It isnt a disease so its either mental illness or brain damage or some other sort of physical damage caused by hallucinogens .

it is none of those things. HPPD is the condition where visual effects persist beyond the end of a trip

Nobody is saying that the effects that you and the other drug war war criminals throw together and call a disorder dont exist and that you dont have them , but they are not caused by hallucinogens .

If it is not caused by hallucinogens, then it isnt HPPD. The name 'HPPD' ONLY refers to the condition of lasting visual distortions when it is caused by taking psychedelics


Do some reading here:
http://www.hppdonline.com/forum/


there is a huge amount of fascinating information about HPPD there

 

[Forkbender]

Oh, come on.

You may have had symptoms of what they describe as HPPD, but how can you be sure it was caused by the psychedelics if they aren't in your system anymore? How can the effects last?

 

[maxfreakout]

You may have had symptoms of what they describe as HPPD, but how can you be sure it was caused by the psychedelics if they aren't in your system anymore? How can the effects last?

Nobody knows how HPPD works, but the visual distortion starts with the drug trip, and clears up after some period of drug abstinence

and this is a very common condition, which affects a fairly high proportion of psychonauts

 

[GOD]

This threads going the same way as the big bang thread = your talking absolute shit .

 

[Forkbender]

It is mental programming/self-hypnosis or could be a psychological/physiological disorder, but it is not caused by psychedelics.

I bruised my head the day after a trip, doesn't mean it was the acid.

 

[maxfreakout]

GOD can you please back up your claim that the wiki HPPD article says that HPPD doesnt exist, with an actual quote from the wiki article?

Either that, or acknowledge that the wiki article in fact DOESNT even suggest that HPPD doesnt exist


and furthermore i repeat that you will not find a single reputable source, anywhere, that says that HPPD is non-existent

 

[maxfreakout]

It is mental programming/self-hypnosis or could be a psychological/physiological disorder, but it is not caused by psychedelics.

I bruised my head the day after a trip, doesn't mean it was the acid.

the concept of 'cause' is a very slippery one, personally i dont think there is any such thing as a 'cause'. But having taken psychedelics is a necessary condition of having HPPD

 

[st.bot.32]

except you can have the same symptoms without ever having taken psychedelics

correlation is not necessarily causation

the wikipedia article repeatedly states the above as well...

It must be emphasized that individuals without HPPD will sometimes notice visual abnormalities. These include floaters (material floating in the eye fluid that appears as black/dark objects floating in front of the eyes and are particularly visible when looking at the bright sky or on a white wall). Likewise, bright lights in an otherwise dark environment may generate trails and halos. Most people don't notice these effects, because they are so used to them. A person fearful of having acquired HPPD may be much more conscious about any visual disturbance, including those that are normal

so yes, maybe "hppd" exists in the sense that it is all in the mind. in which case it is a psychological condition, not a physiological one

 

[Forkbender]

You will not find 1 reputable source giving proof for the link of these symptoms to the previous use of psychedelics.

Did you know that according to the official definition in DSM-IV of HPPD, you would have to be severely affected by said symptoms in social life and/or working life for it to be even considered HPPD? Also, the official definition provides that the symptoms cannot be attributable to any other disorder (dementia, schizophrenia, phobias, etc.).

 

[Forkbender]

the concept of 'cause' is a very slippery one, personally i dont think there is any such thing as a 'cause'. But having taken psychedelics is a necessary condition of having HPPD

Okay. But just because some psychiatrists say that it is so, doesn't necessarily mean that HPPD exists. It is their definition of a certain set of symptoms and they thought that having taken a psychedelic compound prior to those symptoms mattered enough to make it its own special disorder.

 

[maxfreakout]

Okay. But just because some psychiatrists say that it is so, doesn't necessarily mean that HPPD exists. It is their definition of a certain set of symptoms and they thought that having taken a psychedelic compound prior to those symptoms mattered enough to make it its own special disorder.

it has got nothing whatsoever to do with what psychiatrists say

the thing that proves that HPPD exists, is simply the fact that people experience it

it is only genuine HPPD if it is correlated with psychedelic use

 

[maxfreakout]

You will not find 1 reputable source giving proof for the link of these symptoms to the previous use of psychedelics.

Similarly, you will not find one source that proves the link between taking LSD, and experiencing the LSD trip. So do we conclude from that that it is purely a coincidence that people who take LSD will start tripping an hour later? Just because something is not proved, does not make it non-existent

Also, it is worth pointing out that the whole dose of LSD is completely metabolised long before the LSD trip is finished, so according to your own reasoning, LSD is not responsible for making people trip

Did you know that according to the official definition in DSM-IV of HPPD, you would have to be severely affected by said symptoms in social life and/or working life for it to be even considered HPPD? Also, the official definition provides that the symptoms cannot be attributable to any other disorder (dementia, schizophrenia, phobias, etc.).

i am not using the full DSM definition of HPPD, because the DSM definition goes well beyond the basic phenomenological essence of HPPD

i am defining HPPD simply as "visual effects which outlast the effects of the drug"

 

[GOD]

"the thing that proves that HPPD exists, is simply the fact that people experience it"

= you think you have it therefore you have it .

"it is only genuine HPPD if it is correlated with psychedelic use"

There are strict criteria for a diagnosis and it has to be diagnosed by a doctor after ruleing out other posible causes . You are not a doctor and other posible ( probable ) causes havent been ruled out by a doctor . = your a sharlatan talking shit .

 

[Forkbender]

i am not using the full DSM definition of HPPD, because the DSM definition goes well beyond the basic phenomenological essence of HPPD

i am defining HPPD simply as "visual effects which outlast the effects of the drug"

If you define things in your own way, why do you hijack a medical term to describe something that isn't? The term is clearly defined and we were arguing about whether it was really a disorder and now all of a sudden you define it in the way that you like it?

HPPD is defined as a disorder in DSM, it was called into being in by psychiatrists who noticed that some mentally confused people had taken psychedelics and connected the two in a causative relation. As such, I'm willing to submit that it doesn't exist.

 

[maxfreakout]

If you define things in your own way, why do you hijack a medical term to describe something that isn't? The term is clearly defined and we were arguing about whether it was really a disorder and now all of a sudden you define it in the way that you like it?

I was never talking about the detailed psychiatric diagnosis of HPPD, i made it very clear what i was talking about right from the start, which is the condition where people experience visual distortion which outlasts the end of a trip, that is the basic phenomenological essence of what HPPD is. I already said several times inn this thread that the name 'HPPD' is inaccurate for several reasons. But this thread isnt about the accuracy of the term 'HPPD' , rather it is about the actual condition that the label 'HPPD' refers to

HPPD is defined as a disorder in DSM, it was called into being in by psychiatrists who noticed that some mentally confused people had taken psychedelics and connected the two in a causative relation. As such, I'm willing to submit that it doesn't exist.

HPPD was not ' called into being in by psychiatrists', it has existed for as long as people have been using drugs (although obviously it hasnt always been called 'HPPD')

i suppose the only people who know that HPPD exists, are the people who have experienced it themselves, so in that sense it is pointless having this conversation with someone who hasnt experienced it. Nevertheless more than half the people who have voted in the poll have experienced it themselves