Horrible problem(s)

[maxfreakout]

Huxley was totally spot on in most of what he said about these experiences, his words are just as relevant now as they were when he was alive

 

[BrainEater]

i want to be on mescaline all the time too :lol:

 

[IJesusChrist]

...
Alot of you think schizophrenia can somehow be "handled".

Shamanism = schizophrenia? I think some of you have come to this conclusion.

I'll tell you the people who see God, angels, and things coming to them, talking to them, and telling them what they should do... maybe they are shamans.

Is a shaman anything good though? Is a shaman not just a person that is able to accept his schizophrenia, and play along with it, rather than rejecting it, and trying to destroy it?

If I have ever had a glimpse of schizophrenia, I will tell you a person to delve into that type of delusion is beyond my capabilities of understanding.

I sat on the couch, I watched my friends turn into actors. I felt myself split in two. My smarter half had put me here, and was torturing me. He is God. I am just the stupid half, kept in a world that is composed of actors, all to look like me (humanly), on some vast cosmological stage built by him. He watches and does little else.

The thing is, with schizophrenia, there is no logical way out, ever. I rather hope they can find its origins and its eliminations in the future.

 

[BrainEater]

jesus you talk as if you know everything you say 4 sure.

i am sorry 4 not staying unambiguous... maybe u missunderstood...

but well-... jesus i also dont quite understand the connection between schizophrenics and shamans ??

so u say u are schizophrenic, because one split half inside you tortures you and is smarter than what you say are the other half which is "you" ??? tell us more about the god inside you i mean this could be interesting. or is it over?? if yes you could tell us how you made it... i mean eliminate the schizophrenia...

peace

 

[IJesusChrist]

This happened about 5 days ago. I smoked too much weed.

I've delt with it for 2 and years coming up now, and it always surprises me at first, and I feel it take over, but then my old backups all come in and I come back to stable ground.

I am not schizophrenic, I have never hallucinated, but I have a very strong sense that I would be, if I ever had. (i.e. I have everything but the hallucinations)

This isn't about me though.

What I mean is, I think shamans to claim to talk to god Sober are possibly schizophrenic. I feel like these two things are one in the same. Yet, now, with so much stigma, schizophrenia often comes with negative baggage, and is thus, MUCH harder to feel since in a psychotic state, your feelings become all of reality. Instead of your 5 sense steering your thoughts, your thoughts start to steer your senses.

I have begged the question in my mind whether jesus was a schizophrenic.

 

[Synith]

Yeah, but Shamans aren't sober.

 

[maxfreakout]

Mckenna characterised shamans as 'recovered schizophrenics', they have been to the schizophrenic wonderland and returned in one piece, and this experience gives them the understanding of the mental healing process that is necessary to be a shaman

 

[newleaf]

I feel that you can all get very opinuated, we are here to share and help.

We must see that there are many possibilities, this is why so many people fight, they see some possibles, but not all, very easy to get into arguments.

Also, this is someones life we are talking about, he is (and many others) having experiences witch we cannot fully explain, yet we can open up to possibility and see that schizophrenia is a term used to describe a limited perception of something that happens to people and possibly other animals.

There may be electronic Jews, there also may not be.

Many things can be said, but in all honesty I cannot explain what he is going through.

It brings up fears in me too, as I know that I can experience intense delusional states(not saying that his experience or mine were delusions,it felt that way for me) and have gotten through it, that was when I smoked a lot of Cannabis.

We have to open up to possibility and do good calming, grounding things when we come into contact with these experiences.

Time to stay with this world, the worlds that Shamans contact are not always what we need to be involved with.

I will say that we all, or most of us, want to know.

Any words that I use to catagorize experiences, shapes, forms, practices and more are mere ways of communicating and can be interpreted in many ways.

Please keep an open mind and an open heart through all.

Much Love

 

[cockknocker]

How is this thread still going?

 

[Mescaline]

I am not schizophrenic, I have never hallucinated, but I have a very strong sense that I would be, if I ever had. (i.e. I have everything but the hallucinations)

I'm sorry, but whoever told you having hallucinations is a necessary requirement for being diagnosed as a schizophrenic was wrong. It is one of the 5 symptoms mentioned in DSM-IV (Symptoms: Delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, grossly disorganized or catatonic behaviour, negative symptoms), but to be diagnosed as a schizophrenic you only have to have two out of five symptoms present a significant amount of time during a 1-month period.

In that case, if what you are saying is true ("I have everything but the hallucinations"), then yes you do have schizophrenia.. according to DSM-IV(!!)

Schizophrenia is a weird disease though, and might be the consequence of a major fault in the way our society works.. or rather thinks..

ah well, just my two cents, too many people believe all schizophrenics are ahveing visual hallucinations

 

[maxfreakout]

i dont think it's a 'disease' at all

 

[Forkbender]

If it stops people from being at ease, then it is a disease. I think that most people who are diagnosed as a schizophrenic, have problems dealing with the world and society and may therefore be regarded as having a disease. This doesn't mean that it is wrong or unnatural, but I think that saying it is not a disease is questionable at least. If a person has some symptoms like disorganized speech or catatonic behavior, I'd say that that person isn't healthy, not in harmony with his/her environment.

 

[mrvitorsky]

I am not schizophrenic, I have never hallucinated, but I have a very strong sense that I would be, if I ever had. (i.e. I have everything but the hallucinations)

I'm sorry, but whoever told you having hallucinations is a necessary requirement for being diagnosed as a schizophrenic was wrong. It is one of the 5 symptoms mentioned in DSM-IV (Symptoms: Delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, grossly disorganized or catatonic behaviour, negative symptoms), but to be diagnosed as a schizophrenic you only have to have two out of five symptoms present a significant amount of time during a 1-month period.

In that case, if what you are saying is true ("I have everything but the hallucinations"), then yes you do have schizophrenia.. according to DSM-IV(!!)

Schizophrenia is a weird disease though, and might be the consequence of a major fault in the way our society works.. or rather thinks..

ah well, just my two cents, too many people believe all schizophrenics are ahveing visual hallucinations

Wikipedia isn't a diagnosing tool. Yes you can have two out of 5 and be consider a schizophrenic. But generally a psychiatrist try's to determine the intensity and the interference of such symptoms. Cause if you think about it, with the 2 out of 5 rule any devote christian with add is a schizo.

24 hours a day for a couple month at a time I have hardcore delusions(extreme paranoia, trueman show feeling, people that are following me and studying me(cause i am a prophet or messiah)) that subside to dormant delusions latter. I always have disorganized speech and thoughts, and am extremely disorganized in general. Constant emotional ups and downs(another part of the diagnosis you missed). Every now and again Ill see people who aren't there, or Ill see some one and think its some one else for an extended period of time(the followers/spys generally). Slight text movement every now and again, mostly only on digital light. But I wouldn't consider myself schizophrenic cause my father was a true schizophrenic and I saw what it did and what I got aint doing that(insane yelling, bring up your paranoia to the people around you in accusations, drugging your self so you sleep for days cause its safer that way, threatening to kill family members if they dont stop working for her).

I can control myself, I can stay in enough contact with the perceived reality that I don't convince my self I need to kill someone or myself to test it out, but the argument has arised between myself many a time. But then again it could be that some schizos are dramatic and I handle it slightly better cause im use to trauma anyway(pervert step father, drugged out mom, never lived anywhere for more than 1 year at atime).

These problems started before my use of psychedelics(other than herb and dramamine) I was 15 when It started, I filled notebook after notebook in 2 months with insane rambling writing, I was on the darkest of the spirit side though, I was surely on the path of antichrist, eugenics plans, mass murder rants, assassination destinys etc... I eventually came up though after the first 10, 2 month bouts though and I was able to start to view the thoughts and delusions that just appear in a more subjective light, I mean I still have quite depressing thoughts(if youve seen my free flow writing) but trust me it was allot worse. Im 20 now not on anykind of medication, havent gone to a shrink since I was 18, when i got expelled for a bomb threat(just a sick joke) and they found some of my notebooks so thus shrink (i was able to lie my way out of that one by telling him my thoughts were from emotional anxiety about being bisexual).

Now I just look at my thoughts as an asset, I use the reoccuring characters in my head as references in my writing, I use the delusions to try and look deeper and see the truth that every one can understand behind it and try to spread it.

 

[Mescaline]

Wikipedia isn't a diagnosing tool. Yes you can have two out of 5 and be consider a schizophrenic. But generally a psychiatrist try's to determine the intensity and the interference of such symptoms. Cause if you think about it, with the 2 out of 5 rule any devote christian with add is a schizo.

Well I never used wikipedia or any other internet site.
But sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't trying to point out whether people with or without visual hallucinations should be diagnosed as having schizophrenia or not.. It was just that from Jesus' post it seemed as though he thought visual hallucinations were a necessary requirement.. and it most certainly is not.

And ofcourse someone can't be diagnosed as a schizophrenic if it is not interfering with his or her life.. but I thought that goes without saying.

Besides this, I personally don't know what to think of schizophrenia, I've never met someone that has been diagnosed as a schizophrenic, so I wouldn't know from personal experience, and what psychology teaches on the subject doesn't make that much sense either. It doesn't explain anything on the part of what is going on within the person considering his or her thoughts.

 

[Tunnelvision]

If it stops people from being at ease, then it is a disease. I think that most people who are diagnosed as a schizophrenic, have problems dealing with the world and society and may therefore be regarded as having a disease. This doesn't mean that it is wrong or unnatural, but I think that saying it is not a disease is questionable at least. If a person has some symptoms like disorganized speech or catatonic behavior, I'd say that that person isn't healthy, not in harmony with his/her environment.

i always love your crystal clear posts!

 

[BrainEater]

i would say schizophrenia is more a condition than a disease similar to depression... theres no virus theres no infection etc so i'd say its probably no real disease ...

that doesnt mean you could get rid of the condition easier than you could with a disease or so obviously.
but maybe you can ... the question is how ... i agree what has been said that a big reason for this stuff seems to be the sick society and lack of empathy etc... so maybe if one were to find his true identity and let go of a false one dictated by society, media or somethin like that you could possibly get out of there ? thats what i think is possivble at least ...


i agree though with the post of forkbender but well its maybe just a matter of definition what is disease and what not !

 

[Forkbender]

There are indeed differences between diseases we think were caused by bacteria/viri and diseases without such a cause. The latter can be divided into physical and mental diseases. But even the bacterial/viral diseases have physical and mental components, you won't get sick as easily if you eat healthy and don't stress.

In my view most of Western Medicine is entirely symptomatic in its approach, not trying to take away the real cause of the disease, but only the way it manifests in the body.

 

[BrainEater]

yeah thats it mate. its mental but they cannot understand it for them its just the brain etc.

 

[Forkbender]

It may even be both. Mind manifests, you know. If you stress, you get physical symptoms, especially at your weak points. It is a form of self-denial that is at the base of all disease, even of not being at ease. That's why you have got to stop programming yourself with bullshit and start looking for the truth within. Truts yourself and trust others to the point that they trust themselves. Don't be fooled around with buth just experience TRUTH.

BTW, I had a weed relapse if that wasn't clear from these words.

 

[BrainEater]

wise words forkbender.. did the weed trigger this understanding or helped you to elaborate the idea or whatever ? :weedman: or why should that be clear from those words!