Creating a sanctuary in Holland

[phalaris]

What commotion.

one true kind shaman -- many shamans
one true believe -- many believes
one currency -- many currencies
one brand of beer -- many brands of beer

sounds like an akward analogue ?

could be, but I feel like drinking a beer right now.

..ofcource not any beer, but a nice chilled Grolsch. The rest is wastewater from cleaning Grolsch's brewery tanks.

 

[Pinealjerker]

The idea is to have a sanctuary, a controlled space where people can have experiences with plant hallucinogens, mainly psilocybin and ayahuasca but there are more plans, in a safe environment.

I still have to go through this thread, and read all the updates etc., but I can tell you that this has been my idea as well. Actually for the past year especially, and I have written down some ideas here and there.

But first, I will read this thread. As far as my participation is concerned, at this moment in time I have my own healthstore/smartshop (Ambrosia, you can see it at woerdengezond.nl) which is taking up all my time, including the weekends (I relocated recently, so that is taking up a lot of time too). I also don't have money to spare (yet), but I do have a lot of ideas, and experience with (and book knowledge about) the benefits and pitfalls of living in a group.

Would it be possible to formulate an entheogen based religion, and retain the right to cultivate mushrooms for use within ritual settings, even if they decide to make mushrooms illegal in the Netherlands for recreative use (which is likely, because of the international/european/pharmacratic pressure)?

If so, some heads should get together and start writing some kind of bible. Which is what I wanted to do a few weeks ago, but then I decided to just write a letter to the Dutch Ministry of Health. I guess I will eventually write a Dutch book though, describing the common ground amongst the psychedelic community (for example, we don't do cocaine or opiates, would rather not smoke tobacco, don't like getting drunk etc., things which may surprise many straight folks).

I'm rambling now, and need to open the store.

Talk to you all later.

Ivar

 

[Pinealjerker]

- no affinity with any religious movement

Very important. To me that would include all the yogi's, swami's, maharaja's, baba's and mata's. Hindu symbols can be fun and meaningful, and some Vedic sciences kick ass (I am a Vedic astrologer myself), but I wouldn't want to be part of an organization where members worship any kind of Deity or human being.

The way we are going to set it up is either register as an associoation (stichting) or a church (if thats possible), its dependant on the outcome of our talks with lawywers.

I would be curious about that. A church would be safer, but I'm not sure that will be possible.

In any case, this is not meant to turn into an easy money train for me and my gf, thats not our goal although it would be nice at some point to be able to quit my job and work fulltime on this.

You must figure out a way to finance your project. Most spiritual groups and organizations have to deal with the financial pressure involved in owning a building etc. Some organizations get ruined by that pressure. We're not living in the Himalayas or Amazones here. We need money, lots of money.

The way we are going to set it up is either register as an associoation (stichting) or a church (if thats possible), its dependant on the outcome of our talks with lawywers.

I would be curious about that. A church would be safer, but I'm not sure that will be possible.

There wont be money involved so its volunteer work and secondly, we ask a minimum age of 21. Reason for that being that we are consciously going to break the law when we start the sessions and if we have minorities in the group, that can easily frustrate the process.

If you're going to have fulltime members, there must be strict screening: criminal record, medical record etc. And there will always be foreigners willing to join, which is fine, just be careful. You don't want the russian maffia infiltrating your group for example (which has happened again and again in spiritual groups that I know of), or some lazy types, who just wanna smoke dope all day and talk, but do nothing.

Edit: Base will be, and this is non negotiable, in Veenendaal

It's obvious why this sanctuary must be created in The Netherlands, but what's the rationale behind Veenendaal?
The following things (and others) must be taken into account:
- One must be able to get a cheap location. You want space and silence, so ideally you wouldn't get a building in a city, but rather some farm or something like that. Where can one get enough space for the least amount of money?
- There shouldn't be too many non-entheogenic Christians around, or they are going to disturb things for you.

Ivar

 

[silv]

If you're right Ivar, Veenendaal MIGHT just be the worst place to choose due to the high concentration of dogmatic retard christians there

 

[Pinealjerker]

If there are too many christians in the gemeenteraad (local government), you're gonna have a hard time getting permits etc.

Perhaps we should contact some more broadminded political party like Groenlinks, and ask them in which cities they got the most power, and contact some Christian parties and ask where they have the least amount of power. Just an idea. What do you think?

By the way, did you know Christ used cannabis too? Read:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

 

[silv]

If there are too many christians in the gemeenteraad (local government), you're gonna have a hard time getting permits etc.

Perhaps we should contact some more broadminded political party like Groenlinks, and ask them in which cities they got the most power, and contact some Christian parties and ask where they have the least amount of power. Just an idea. What do you think?

By the way, did you know Christ used cannabis too? Read:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

Well in veenendaal just about all parties save groenlinks sp sgp are in the city council but the people in veenendaal are quite christian.
Nijmegen on the contrary is usually the biggest groenlinks city, might be worth a shot there if it doesn't work out in veenendaal.

 

[Pinealjerker]

Nijmegen sounds good. Can be easily reached by train. Straight connection from Utrecht, even Amsterdam I think?

I don't think Germany would like it though. :wink:

Personally I like the idea of Veenendaal. I somehow really like the vibe of the Utrechtse Heuvelrug, even though christians have pretty much occupied the area. I'm from the area of Driebergen/Zeist/Utrecht.

Oh, will pimp another page here, for anyone interested: http://www.myspace.com/caduceusmercurius
There's a bit about me there. About my interests and stuff.
En in het Nederlands, een pagina vol informatie en links over psychedelica:
http://www.woerdengezond.nl/herbs.htm

[/url]

 

[Dantediv86]

You guys...and girls....it seems a dream come true I can't believe my eyes
I'm all in commotion at the moment sorry i won't contribute bright ideas to the brainstorm as i don't have bright ideas at the moment...but...but a place like this would be my paradise...i've never been in Holland and never intend to go there "just for the drugs" as most of my friends do, but this i'd REALYY LOVE to see REALIZED ...now i didn't read through that well i skimread (i read the first page and then skimmed) but the whole idea is GREAT

I liked the"If so, some heads should get together and start writing some kind of bible. Which is what I wanted to do a few weeks ago, but then I decided to just write a letter to the Dutch Ministry of Health. I guess I will eventually write a Dutch book though, describing the common ground amongst the psychedelic community (for example, we don't do cocaine or opiates, would rather not smoke tobacco, don't like getting drunk etc., things which may surprise many straight folks)."

I didn't like that it only has to be Dutch(the book)... get it to be translated worldwide!!

 

[HeartCore]

This post is overdue but anyway.
I wrote this topic ‘long’ ago with pure intentions and really wanted to make this work. However, my last ‘trip’ turned out to be the profound lifechanging event I have been waiting all my life for. Things have changed drastically for me in a good way.
I can make a long story and all, just check my ‘departing into hyperspace thread in the mushroom section which says it all.

Sorry for everyone to involve you in it and get you brainstorming, if you want, take over this idea and make it work, that would be very cool.
I have other priorities, www.life.com , thats what I will dedicate my life too

Love & Peace all
Henk

 

[Pinealjerker]

I didn't like that it only has to be Dutch(the book)... get it to be translated worldwide!!

There's so much to read in English already, especially on the Internet. That's why I would first like to publish something in Dutch. I've been a translator for 5 years, and my conclusion is that all translations suck (especially books on spirituality). Hence, a Dutch translation of an English book will not do, and an English book written by me will not do either, because English is not and never will be my first language. I was born in the Netherlands, and thus I think that's where I have to do my work.

 

[Dantediv86]

NO NO it's not what i meant i mean worldwide in Norwegian Italian FRench Indonesian Swahili etc etc and of course Dutch being your first language
But then....considering what you said, it's fine by me you have my blessing
:lol:
or maybe GOD wants to do it :lol: :lol: :lol:

:drool: I'm so eager and curious to read what you will write i think i'll get my Dutch friend to translate it for me :lol: