Creating a sanctuary in Holland

[amoak]

I agree with you Amoak and I guess I was more or less hoping for a plantteacher her in Holland. Looks like I have to save up for a trip to the amazon after all....

And a person who really believes and know shamanism never will look for a shamanic course because shamanism is much obvious for those who are shamans and most of them dicover it when they are still young

I dont agree completely. Personally, I have been looking for a course in shamanism when I was 21. Mind you, back then there was no internet, no affinity groups (at least not where I lived) and applying for such a course was at that time a method to come to terms with the experiences I had with mushrooms.

And I do believe a course lead by a psychedelic shaman can be helpful for anyone who wants/needs to go that way. If only for learning to brew a better brew of to grow some confidence. At least, thats it for me. I have no fear in taking 120 grams mushrooms by myself but I fr
ak out when I have to sit. Even when I'm sober

So i think you are much far from be a Shaman , a person who need to take 120g to have a full trip is because you are VERY far from your doors.
Most of the Shamans need very small doses to have trance states and to comunicate , they can have trance states with doses that for normal people is nothing , so i think you are reaaaaaaaaaaally far from shamanism
Another point those who take much triptamines become very sensitive , so if you need such high dose is because you are not so experienced , at least for me , but as i told you , I took it every week and NEVER need such dose to have visions ,

about the trip to amazon you can join me in my trip in september.

 

[amoak]

And I do believe a course lead by a psychedelic shaman can be helpful for anyone who wants/needs to go that way. If only for learning to brew a better brew of to grow some confidence. At least, thats it for me. I have no fear in taking 120 grams mushrooms by myself but I freak out when I have to sit. Even when I'm sober

And a Shaman is not a person who knows do a good brew , but is a person who is master in travel and in out-of-body experiences is someone who can travel and separate body from soul very easly , even without any kind of drug , and you need to be pure and believe is not just want to be a shaman and ok let's go , no is not this
If you cant relax and sit down with shrooms is because you don't feel confortable with shrooms so i think you have a big problem , because i can relax better with shrooms or any other entheogenic than opium , only iboga is the plant that make's me freak out and just for some moments mainly in the begining .
But i really hope that one day you will able to see what is a shamanic trip because is nothing in comparation with ordinary trips and they only let you enter if they know you can survive to it and understand it , if not you will become crazy , at least is what they say in Amazon bassin

Cheers

 

[HeartCore]

So i think you are much far from be a Shaman , a person who need to take 120g to have a full trip is because you are VERY far from your doors.
Most of the Shamans need very small doses to have trance states and to comunicate , they can have trance states with doses that for normal people is nothing , so i think you are reaaaaaaaaaaally far from shamanism
Another point those who take much triptamines become very sensitive , so if you need such high dose is because you are not so experienced , at least for me , but as i told you , I took it every week and NEVER need such dose to have visions ,

I dont agree with this since you miss a point here. i dont take plants to get into a trance, I can get into a trance quite easily without plants. With visions, very different visions from psilocybin or other hallucinogens I tried.

i dont consider myself a shaman because I think the term shaman takes away from the actual job. I take peoples pain away by laying my hands on them, without plants, this is 'just' healing. i dont need plants for that.

I never said I need 120 grams, I said I take 120 grams. 75 grams works most of the time but sometimes when potency is not all that, it wont take me where I want to go so I take 100-120 grams since thats a sure hit, it costs me next to nothing. But when I do that, I take them to experience the full tryptamine/psilocybin trip, I'm not trying to fuel a shamanic journey, at least, thats not my intent. I'm just very interested by these states.

So I dont know if I am a shaman, I really dont care since that title doesnt say anything anyway. I am a healer though

I dont buy it that you can get the full psilocybin experience from just a small dose. I do believe though, that by taking a small dose of psiliocybin, it becomes easier to access all sorts of trance. But thats a different thing than a full psilocybin trance.

Shamen in the Amazon are very conservative with dosage and this is the main reason that for anyone having a more than average body weight, will have a hard time getting a good dose in.

Getting back to this, I have some more ideas which I want to share about this whole project but I;m at work now

 

[amoak]

i dont consider myself a shaman because I think the term shaman takes away from the actual job. I take peoples pain away by laying my hands on them, without plants, this is 'just' healing. i dont need plants for that.

So I dont know if I am a shaman, I really dont care since that title doesnt say anything anyway. I am a healer though

S

That's my point if you don't know if you are a Shaman so you are not a Shaman , is sure, is obvious

i saw friends who have bad trips with 1,5 g dried shrooms , so i see you have no experience at all and is very strange with your age till think like that is hard to believe in your age, no offense , or maybe you just need to know just that exist people extremely sensitive , i know a lot of psychonauts and goa lovers and i ve seen a lot of people with extremly powerfull trips with very low doses even less than 1 gram , so is very stupid say that only with high doses, in some cases yes but not allways , we are not all the same , there are people who died with morphine doses15 times less than a normal dose , think about it

And i really know what is shooms trips with low and high doses , i had a lot of shrooms trips in my life nd i know very well what is a full experience and I had also several bad trips with shrooms and even death experiences and they aren't easy and can be dangereus give to people such high doses in the forum.

For me your not a healer and not even a shaman because you make peopel feel better i can make my girlfriend feel better just with a smile and i can't say i'm a healer, but you maybe can and make feel people better with others ways even meditation, of course you don't need any plant , but if you want heal a psychose or a schizofrenic person, huhhhhhhh that's what i call a job

 

[phalaris]

That's my point if you don't know if you are a Shaman so you are not a Shaman , is sure, is obvious

I don't agree. To me, the title of shaman is one that is appointed by others. That person may even think he/she is no shaman at all, but people surrounding him/her will tell you otherwise.

Think of artists too, just thinking or saying to be an artist isn't enough. luckily there are still types of "jobs" around that do not rely on diplomas.

And in the end; does it matter ? Also, I can image the existence of an city-equivalent of an "classic"-shaman. Nobody dictates that a shaman has to have dark skin and live in the deep amazone.

 

[amoak]

That's my point if you don't know if you are a Shaman so you are not a Shaman , is sure, is obvious

I don't agree. To me, the title of shaman is one that is appointed by others. That person may even think he/she is no shaman at all, but people surrounding him/her will tell you otherwise.

Think of artists too, just thinking or saying to be an artist isn't enough. luckily there are still types of "jobs" around that do not rely on diplomas.

And in the end; does it matter ? Also, I can image the existence of an city-equivalent of an "classic"-shaman. Nobody dictates that a shaman has to have dark skin and live in the deep amazone.

No , no sense , Shaman is a person who can see in the dark , is a person who can have out-of-body experiences , mainly is a person who receive visions and can talk and learn with plants , just this ,
Is not a Shaman because other say is a Shaman or because is a healer , a healer is NOT a shaman , not in amazons , healers ARE CHICKEN SHAMANS most of themthat's the most stupid version , shaman is someone who is master in travel in other dimensions , just this , and i know well shamans and i speak the same language(portuguese and spanish) so i don't need traducers

 

[amoak]

And just another point , people say Papa is saint and is good , and i dream with the they when i will kill him , is not just because people say that i will believe that this sucker makes peace ,

 

[forest]

there are loads of different kinds of shamans. it are old souls, some older than others, and some more powerfull than others. that you're not shure weather you are a shaman doesn't mean you aren't one. you are born a shaman, if you're not born one you can't become one. you can't say, a shaman has to be able to do ......, because else he or she isn't a shaman. then you are a fool.
in the jungle old souls are recogniced by the shamans and are educated since they are young. here in this society a load remain undeveloped.

 

[forest]

what i do think is that a good developed shaman doesn't need plants

 

[amoak]

for me there is only a kind of shaman , visionary shamans who use plants and learn with them , they use medicine, not with religions and they don't use dead animals and fake stories as most of south america fake shamans or shamans for turistes.

 

[Entheonaut]

i saw friends who have bad trips with 1,5 g dried shrooms , so i see you have no experience at all and is very strange with your age till think like that is hard to believe in your age no offense

Offcourse you can go bad from smaller doses... My mother would go bad from half a mushroom..... You say Heartcore has NO EXPERIENCE at all, because he only experiences the full tryptamine/psilo experiance at a higher dose? You should know that someone without experience wouldn't be able to handle 120g mushies, he'll jump out the frikkin' window.

there are people who died with morphine doses 15 times less than a normal dose , think about it

Morphine isn't psilo, someone with experience wouldn't dare to compare the two ... You'd have to eat more than half your body weight to die from mushrooms. So what's the deal?

For me your not a healer and not even a shaman

He never said he's a shaman. And if he takes away someone else's pain, that IS healing...

 

[amoak]

w.

there are people who died with morphine doses 15 times less than a normal dose , think about it

Morphine isn't psilo, someone with experience wouldn't dare to compare the two ... You'd have to eat more than half your body weight to die from mushrooms. So what's the deal?

For me your not a healer and not even a shaman

He never said he's a shaman. And if he takes away someone else's pain, that IS healing...

When i compare with morphine is just to show that exist sensitive persons to psychoactive substances, nothing more

And i didn't say that HeartCore said that is a Shaman , But he said he want to pay 2000 euros for a course of shamanis and i just reply to say that i think is not good idea and also to give such big doses ,nothing more

 

[forest]

ok i dindnt;

 

[amoak]

You maybe don't read the topic but this discussion is because HeartCore said he want pay 2000 euros for a shamanic course ,in my opinion is the better way to lost money, but is just my opinion, he's free

 

[forest]

it wasn't about the discussion it was about what you said about healers and shamans, what they are to you

 

[amoak]

Offcourse you can go bad from smaller doses... My mother would go bad from half a mushroom..... You say Heartcore has NO EXPERIENCE at all, because he only experiences the full tryptamine/psilo experiance at a higher dose? You should know that someone without experience wouldn't be able to handle 120g mushies, he'll jump out the frikkin' window.

Yes, but only kids like to talk about heroic doses , and he knows that most of the people in this forum are young so is not good idea give such doses , only a kid will say it, i don't want affirm that he's a kid and not even that he don't have experience l believe in his experience , but sometimes he write as if he was i really get confus

 

[forest]

you talk like a child yourself amoak. psychedelics this and that. shamans who need chickens are just as undeveloped as ones who Need psychedelics

 

[amoak]

That's because maybe i am , i never said the opposite as others have done it here, and i talk about psychedelics because we are in a psychedelic drugs forum so i prefer talk about drugs and do not talk about my life here i prefer with my friends, about the chicken shamans is only a well knowed expression in Spanish countrys this doesn't means that they use chicken but means they are fake,lol (ok,i'm out, i don't come again to this topic,)

 

[spice]

amoak- you say that 'for you' there is only one kind of shaman, 'visionary shamans who use plants'

may I suggest that you not limit yourself by imposing your definition of shamanism on the rest of reality....isn't this the very opposite of what 'visionary' means??

Also, you said that 'only kids' talk about heroic doses?

I'm sorry that your experience has been so bad, in whatever form.

But, you're probably incorrect on the 'if you don't know, you're not a shaman'

these are probably, the very best shamans...

?

( something to do with the ego )

see claudio naranjo for an example of a shamanic approach to semi-synthetic drugs ( MDA )

 

[HeartCore]

Amoak go fuck yourself. I'm out of here bye all.

Edit: I dont call myself a shaman since there are so many fucktards that think they have a clue what they are talking about, that I consider the term shaman infected with bad language and ignorance.