Books

[magickmumu]

The massage is crystal clear my dear Vapour Trail.
Your are all for the experience itself (like myself)
But are you telling me you don't read books or look up information on the internet.
Why this polarity? Is there no middle on this road?


Another good book for psychonauts to look at is GAIA by J.E Lovelock.
It is a theory about nature as living organism.

Something different but also interesting is : The mission of art by Alex Grey.
Alex Grey is not as good a writer as he is a painter, but it's a good book. It's about his personal view on art history.

 

[psm]

A man who has never read a book is a man who will never know anything. Don't let yourself be fooled with the "only personal experience will give you the truth" bullshit, because if it would be that way, we would all still be sitting in front of our cave and try to make fire.

Sorry, but that's the biggest BS I read today.

sorry, I cannot argue where no argument has been presented.

I don't agree that a man will never have knowledge if he doesn't read books. That's indeed BS

Books are just books, a source of information. I don't see why reading is good or bad.

Actually it was a quote from Verne (the bold part), but never mind.
In a time, when books were the only way of travel for most, this was decent statement.

Of course knowledge and wisdom can be acquired in other ways. But books are a very good one to do so. Especially if we come to the more complex things.

Imagine we would life a hundred years ago...
No one here could come up with the idea of quantum mechanics. Not without knowing general physics. To know more about physics, one would have to read newton, galileo and many others. and we would go back to the greeks and further.
Knowledge is meant to be past on. And books are the way to do so for more then 5000 years (does not matter, if its a papyrus scroll, a wall with inscriptions or a book pressed by gutenberg - I am refering to the written words).

Why the fuck do you think we are in this forum? same thing! Share and obtain knowledge with/from others.

There were many others before us and they did a lot of research. We are all eating their fruits of labor. We are where we are, because there were people before us, who made use of past knowledge and built something new from it.

This is called EVOLUTION! same thing that happens to cells, happens to information.

 

[psm]

Oh John C. Lilly just came to mind. excellent stuff

 

[VapourTrail]

The massage is crystal clear my dear Vapour Trail.
Your are all for the experience itself (like myself)
But are you telling me you don't read books or look up information on the internet.
Why this polarity? Is there no middle on this road?

Yes, if you are trying something new, you may need to look up dosage, preparation etc - but that will not gain you any insight.

I'm not sure you are crystal clear - what you said and what I said do not match. I specifically said you may NEED to look things up but after you have assured you won't die, the insight can only come from inside - not the book.

You will not gain insight because you know the dose required any more than you can travel to work by looking at a map.

The insight comes ONLY from looking within. To do this safely, again I say, that you may need external information. This information is not insight.

 

[magickmumu]

I never talked about insight. entertainment and information was what I was talking about. Books and psychonautica are two different things. I read a lot about psychedelics because it interest me. That's why I am on this forum. I am here to share experience and knowledge. To learn and find out stuff I didn't know.

Why are you on this forum vapour trail????
Do you read books???

John C Lilly :thumbsup:

 

[VapourTrail]

I never said anything about inside. Books and psychonautic are two different things. I have a lot of psychedelic literature, because I am interested in it. That's why I am on this forum.

Why are you on this forum Vapour Trail????
do you read books or not??????

I was also replying to:

Is there any book you feel is essential for any psychonaut to read?

If so, please share!!!
I'm looking for some interesting books to read.
I want to learn more, outside of psychedelic states.
My brain needs some rest.
And I respect my brain Cool
But I want to continue practicing my psychonauting.

A psychonaut (from the Greek ??????

 

[magickmumu]

I understand. But because you don't need books doesn't mean you can't read them.
And there are some good books on psychedelics.

 

[VapourTrail]

I'll reply again since you edited your post and editing mine to reflect this could be confusing and would lose some context.

I am here to share experience and knowledge. To learn and find out stuff I didn't know.

Why are you on this forum vapour trail????
Do you read books???
:thumbsup:

I see this as both commendable and a worthy use of your time here on this planet.

I would hope that my advice has still helped you to learn something you didn't know through being able to have an opinion that is not your own - that is how I was hoping it would go.

I read books.

Specifically on this subject matter? Not so much. I've read quite a lot of books from Alan Watts that could be considered related but I do not think it has the same merit.

As for why I am here - I make plenty mistakes, other people have different views and hearing them helps me understand my own view. It also shows me where it could use refining.

Also the act of remembering and recollecting to tell a story to someone else also aids in remembering and understanding.

I believe talking about it now, with you, probably helps me more than a book would have. That doesn't stop me reading, but I cannot reply with anything I would call essential.

 

[psm]

I was replying to the original post - there is no ESSENTIAL books for a psychonaut to have. You may need useful information on your travels but there is no book you NEED to have.

Same thing applies to drugs and yet... most of this forum is about drugs

 

[Telico]

Of course knowledge and wisdom can be acquired in other ways. But books are a very good one to do so. Especially if we come to the more complex things.

It's not because things are complex that they're true. I've always been told to drink milk to be healthy. Recent research shown that milk could be unhealthy.

Imagine we would life a hundred years ago...
No one here could come up with the idea of quantum mechanics. Not without knowing general physics. To know more about physics, one would have to read newton, galileo and many others. and we would go back to the greeks and further.

And so ? I love quantum mechanics, but I do not believe it at all, and thus I could have simply ignored it, it wouldn't have ruined my life. I mean,"A journey into the quanta's world" is just like a novel for me, just like "20 000 leagues under the sea" or "of mice and men"

Of course, now surgeons need to read a plethora of books before being able to save lifes, that's really a good point.

But it could very be that we are wrong, that the essential point of the medecine books are wrong : why should we try desperately to keep a guy alive since the afterlife could really be a good "place" .

Moreover, shamans in the amazon don't need any medicine or books to heal their patients. They just pick some plants and heal their patients. I don't know how powerful is this kind of medicine, but I know that in some case it could be very efficient.

I think that the main point of what I said was that we don't know anything actually, any fucking thing. Even Einstein, the brilliant scientist, came to the conclusion that the more we think we know, the less we actually know !

Of course knowledge can help, but to what extent ? I think we're embedded in paradigms that disables most of us to think "lateraly" as Edward de Bono might say. Why should we avoid death for instance ?

In my opinion, and as forkbender rightly said :

You don't have to look for answers in reading, you can just enjoy reading things you like.

Peace.

 

[psm]

William Burroughs just poped into my head and demanded to be mentioned.
R. Buckminster Fuller jr. would be to moderate to ask for mentioning, but since he was one of the greatest minds of all, here he is...

essentially everything that is fucking your mind is a good read.

a psychonaut first and and foremost needs to understand himself, his psyche, how he functions and so on. so everything that gets you onto the track of a metaprogramer is a good read.

 

[VapourTrail]

I was replying to the original post - there is no ESSENTIAL books for a psychonaut to have. You may need useful information on your travels but there is no book you NEED to have.

Same thing applies to drugs and yet... most of this forum is about drugs

Quite well said.

I don't quite agree, but I love that you said it.

People talk about "the meaning of life" a lot. You get to pick your own, I like to understand as much as I can, including where the limits of my understanding reach.

That may not be the only thing in my life, just one of several things I want to do, but since I do not believe I will get another life, I really do need to do them to live out my life.

Sure, it is a self imposed restriction but anything other than food, shelter and warm is not needed in the strictest sense of the word.

 

[psm]

It's not because things are complex that they're true. I've always been told to drink milk to be healthy. Recent research shown that milk could be unhealthy.

You don't mind if I quote myself, do you?

While you read a book, go with it. Accept it as truth, no matter how much bullshit it is, but as soon as you have finished it, doubt every word you have read. And then learn to make up your own mind.

This is what evolution is about. You learn, you evolve. Imagine, there were no previous ideas about how milk affects us. We would think its healthy, until we make enough tests to understand its not...
It just took us about 5000 years to come to that conclusion. Imagine, we would not have a single scarp of information on milk from these last 5000 years...

Moreover, shamans in the amazon don't need any medicine or books to heal their patients. They just pick some plants and heal their patients. I don't know how powerful is this kind of medicine, but I know that in some case it could be very efficient.

And those shamans take their knowledge from where exactly? From their teachers!
The only difference here is, that the shaman cannot teach many young ones. a book, a school, a university could.

I think that the main point of what I said was that we don't know anything actually, any fucking thing. Even Einstein, the brilliant scientist, came to the conclusion that the more we think we know, the less we actually know !

True.
As a species we are in the earliest of years. We are infants figfhting over troy-trucks and sandcastles...

 

[Telico]

Moreover, shamans in the amazon don't need any medicine or books to heal their patients. They just pick some plants and heal their patients. I don't know how powerful is this kind of medicine, but I know that in some case it could be very efficient.

And those shamans take their knowledge from where exactly? From their teachers!
The only difference here is, that the shaman cannot teach many young ones. a book, a school, a university could.

Actually I've heard that shamans go by themselves during 2 years or more into the forests to live alone and learn by themselves what plants can offer. Nevermind. This is anecdotical and particular.


And concerning the milk, it could very be that in two years scientists will tell us that milk is healthy, or makes you smarter. 5 years later, scientists will tell us that in fact milk is partly responsible for cancers, or whatever. How can one make his mind in such conditions ? Making my mind is synonym of hold something for true and ignore something else, isn't it ? We cannot make our mind in an ever transforming reality.

However I agree with you because knowledge can be very helpful in some cases, for example when you want to sleep in the jungle, you have to learn how to deal with snakes.

As a species we are in the earliest of years. We are infants figfhting over troy-trucks and sandcastles...

Yes, but I don't think that one day we'll grow up and know the truth, because there is no absolute truth, in my opinion.


Peace.

 

[psm]

Yes, but I don't think that one day we'll grow up and know the truth, because there is no absolute truth, in my opinion.

None of us will ever know, since we will be dead. except those that believe in reincarnation of course

 

[GOD]

"The only difference here is, that the shaman cannot teach many young ones. a book, a school, a university could. "

Thats your opinion . You cant learn to fly an airoplane from a book , and people dont go to university and learn everything from books , they have an experienced teacher .

Books can be fun and informative but to many people believe their interpretation of what they read and not what was ment . Foe example some confused christians with their bible .

The light , your answer/s are within you , not in a book . Or show me the book of answers .

 

[psm]

You cant learn to fly an airoplane from a book

at least, my chances of survival will be much higher, then yours by learning how to fly on trial and error.

and then again, i did not try yet to learn to fly an airplane from book. i would love to try though...

and i don't think that pilots don't have a lot to read when they are learning either...

 

[GOD]

Stupid answer . First you make statements and then when someone says something sensible you cop out .

 

[psm]

Stupid answer . First you make statements and then when someone says something sensible you cop out .

whatever man. since you seem to believe this is a competition on dick/brain size, lets just say you win and leave me alone, huh? i frankly don't care much about what you say.

while i have seen, that you have some knowledge, it just doesn't justified your overly self-righteous asshole attitude. But since every forum obviously has a troll under its bridge, I'll pay my toll...

Is there an ignore button somewhere?

 

[BrainEater]

Evolution is the best!!!!!!!!!!! from apes to humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! from retarded to intelligent human being!!!!!!!!!!!! nice history is this!!!!!! the history of evolution..... or is the evolution of history.... ???

anyways.... the best success story ever: humanity.

don't guess whether this post is sarcastic!!!!!!!!!

:weedman:


peace.