Alienation

[Nomada]

"freak", "dangerous", "weirdo", "yuck"

I get these all the time from my friends, my family and everyone else. I'm content with myself but apparently no one else. I find it extremely difficult to sustain a reasonable conversation with anyone. At the exception of my closest friends, everyone that knows me a little bit is usually noticeably mocking my "weird ways".
I've gotten complaints that I make people afraid and paranoid, I've even been threatened with fists held high only because I was making them think really weird stuff-that's what they said. When I talk in public I hear laughs.

It's ok. I enjoy talking with the birds and the trees and walking alone through the woods and seeing mad things. But I wish, sometimes, that there could be more people doing this or, at least, that they wouldn't alienate me. I love other human beings' bodies and socializing, but apparently I make them uncomfortable.-

What is going on?
The intensity of the alienating process seems proportional to how far I've been taking what can be called my "psychonautism". (I don't like this word actually, I'm utilizing it to make a point-please excuse me)
What is going on?

 

[Affirmatory]

I can relate to this, I felt so alienated from society/most people that I thought they weren't even worth it, and pretty much shut myself off from most human interaction for 3-4 months. But I got over it.

I can't tell you what's going on, but if you think some of your alienation could be due to your 'psychonautism' and everything that goes along with it, at some level it's only natural.
Taking drugs/plants/chemicals sitting in darkness journeying into the mind and contemplating and feeling things the vast majority of people don't feel until death or maybe after... thinking about these things makes them alot more important to you than people who ignore them or people who think they are not really issues at all.
Most people have the mentality of 'bottle it up and it will go away' to anything negative, and 'anything that sounds strange and unknown should be shunned out of fear'. Also i think alot of people are content in their mentalities and thoughts and do not like it when you so much as express yourself in a way that is not mundane to them.

An ostrich is very angry when you pull it's head out of the sand.

I could go on forever trying to explain this in detail, i hope you know what I am trying to say. I'm saying being a psychonaut is very different and most people don't like that.

I have made alot of assumptions with this post, i don't know who you are, how you act, what you say. Don't take this the wrong way, but try this: blend in, act like them. I'm not saying conform, kill your individuality... What i mean is if you can tell someone is not going to enjoy your intellectual speculations, or grand ideas or whatever (again alot of assumptions), just don't waste your time on them with it. There are plenty of people in the world who would greatly appreciate someone with a character like yours to talk to. There are 6 billion people on this planet. You have to ration out your 'weirdness' to those who will enjoy it. Probably as you do by posting on this forum.


Alienation is a natural part of being concious in a world full of zombies.

Now, I like people, thats why I usually let people wake themselves up. If i want someone to like me I usually have to talk to them on their terms, eg. about their interests, or if it's about mine, only mundane/simple things they will understand. Only when someone has accepted me for things they call normal will i reveal to them the more interesting facets of my personality.

All this being said, my social life is quite dull and not rewarding intellectually, I have friends that I like and trust who I can't really enjoy a conversation with because they 'aren't on my level', but then, I just don't spend alot of time around them anymore. The point is that they're still friends.

More information would be good, what exactly are your 'weird ways' that people complain of? From where I sit either you are experiencing normal shunning from most people for being an individual, or maybe people do have a reason to be freaked out?

This is something I have been thinking about: I live in a country where pretty much everyone drinks alot of alcohol. I've almost totally stopped. If I go to a party of drunks, sober, I will be alienated, but who is doing the alienating? I have a choice to get drunk and sink to their level or have them alienate me. Both not desirable. You have to find a balance between (fitting in/conformity) and (individuality/being a weirdo).


And remember: weird in a weird world means normal

ps. sorry about the long post, words are hard to fit around this idea

 

[magickmumu]

What is it that you do to make other people uncomfortable.
:?:

 

[????????]

You have to ration out your 'weirdness' to those who will enjoy it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

If you want to be yourself you will be alienated. If you want to relate, and have many friend, pick a person from a t.v. show or a book and be him, society loves that.

The human race sucks :wink:

 

[restin]

It is difficult to have a healthy relationship with the environment if one really always wants to talk about the things one is concerned with and interested in. You have to adapt. No, you don't have to change, but you have to change the level and kind of conversation you share with your environment. If you see that someone doesn't like talking about drugs, why will you force him? If someone is not interested in philosophy, why talking about it? I personally have different friends and different conversations with them. Most of them don't do drugs, so I don't talk about it. If have enemies of weed, enemies of philosophy, enemies of arts and I do not force them to talk about it. It may be a sacrifice, but in human communication, there is rarely a case without rules. I am sorry that this affects you.

 

[Forkbender]

IJesusChrist, Please get over the idea that one cannot be himself and be accepted in society at the same time. Being yourself doesn't imply isolation/alienation.

Nomada, could you try to answer magickmumu's question? I'd be interested to know and it will be easier to see what is going on.

 

[Nomada]

thanks everyone for your responses. I've been thinking about this for a while and you guys confirmed much of what I've considered before.

I will not answer right away because I'm leaving right now to the mountain to trip so I'll be out for 36 hours or so. I'll talk when back, whish me luckk.

 

[restin]

Have fun, enjoy yourself.

 

[Pariah]

It's funny, I was having this conversation over MSN with a friend of mine just this morning. My conclusion comes down to one word:

Etiquette

Society seems to have a set of unwritten behavoral rules we are meant to follow to be accepted.

My own experiences tend to be linked with my interests - it seems to be bad etiquette to want to learn things, to go on long hikes involving sleeping rough, to want to cycle everywhere instead of taxi / bus / learning to drive - I get a lot of sidelong glances at that kind of stuff.

It works the other way round though - I find it strange that people like to sit infront of a television all day watching soaps and adverts, or spend any extra cash they earn on alcohol, I find it strange that people have little interest in each other unless they are gaining from the relationship... the list goes on - so we probably have our own hang ups as well (I do anyway).

Certain groups I come across are more accepting of "weird" people - the heavy metal community to me seems slightly anti-etiquette and most people put into a "throw away group" are usually more forgiving of "excentricity"... immigrants/foriegners, mentally ill, physically handicapped - the very people I find can really appreciate friendship are the ones who are shunned - the Pariahs if you will...

I recently wen't on a long walk: I came across about 6 people in my travels (in 3 days) - most of them police / security guards / park rangers telling me I shouldn't be where I was / checking me for drugs. The two people I met who showed an interest in me as a person were an old lady who must of had a stroke at one point, and who was collecting for charity beside a shopping centre (she was told to move from the entrance because she was in the way), and a mexican guy (who couldn't speak english, but still wanted to know about who I was (my spanish isn't good, but we managed ok under the circumstances).

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Interesting isn't it ? Considering your blind oposition to me ?

No coincidences ?

 

[Pariah]

I don't care whether your thought of as "strange" or not - anyone can talk BS - your not somehow immune to my disagreeing with you just because your world view is different to most people.

Who said anything about *blind* opposition - I have my reasons for thinking that your babling nonsense - you seem to link quantum tunneling, donuts and DNA, but refuse to answer my questions about how they're linked. I've seen the use of scientific sounding words completely out of context, pages and pages of nonsensical ramblings about indigo children and "the holographic nature of black holes" and Freud linked to ego death (?!) whats that all about?

I'd much prefer you talk constructively about the topic at hand. For instance talk about in what way you think your being victimised for your oddities (I assume thats how you feel). Don't make what sounds like a personal attack of my words in yet another thread.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

I don't feel victimized at all... this is whats so important about holographic perceptions, they are out of that paradigm.

As for DNA, quantum tunelling and hydrogen, if you don't see the link you don't want to see the link, you don't need my aproval.

The way you give me orders all around indicate to me how much you deserve your own predicament, you have decided to share it, now face the consequences.

I gave you an order... hmm hmm :lol:

 

[Spidi]

I agree with restin. I think everyone with a bit of a deeper nature has ever felt angry with the world because it is so shallow, because all the people on this world never seem to stop and think, reflect about life...

I was always happy that I was different. But when you have some real bad experience, overthinking can make everything worse. I saw shallow people having the same problems I had, but they didn't seem to care. They went to work, came home, ate, watched tv or went to a bar and then went to sleep, and they were perfectly happy with that. Why can't I do that, I thought. So now I try to be a little more shallow (the negative term) or spontaneous, social, outgoing (the positive terms), which doesn't mean you can sit and think, and trip.

As for you, alienation is bad. Saying "the human race sucks", won't deliver you anything, you might as well commit suicide then or go live in the jungle. It's a simple fact that you have to live together with other people and they can help you more than you can help yourself to achieve the things you want to achieve. So I'd suggest working on your appearance towards others, working on you social skills, adapting, which does NOT mean not being yourself.

I have alot of friends that hate drugs, so I leave them alone about that. There are enough other things that I can appreciate in them. And you know, maybe other people think the same as you when they're alone, they just have learned to mask it =)

Take care,

Spidi.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"But it's really yourself that is the final orbiter, and if you keep yourself as the final orbiter, you will be less susceptible to infection by cultural illusion. Now the problem with this is that it makes you feel bad to not be infected by cultural illusion, because it's called alienation. The reason we feel alienated is because the society is infantile, trivial and stupid. So the cost of sanity in this society is a certain level of alienation. I grapple with this because I am a parent, and I think anybody who has children comes to this realisation: What will it be - Alienated cynical intellectual or slackjod halfwit consumer of the horseshit being handed down from on high. There is not much choice, and we all want our children to be "well adjusted" - unfortunately there is nothing to be well adjusted to. So that's a real problem..." ~ Terence McKenna

"There is another problem with power: aloneness. ... There is no one above to whom to pass the buck; no one to blame; no one to tell you how to do it. There may not even be anyone on the same level to share the agony or the responsibility. Others may advise, but the decision is yours alone. You alone are responsible. ... [The] person who has evolved to the highest level of awareness, of spiritual power, will likely have no one in his or her circle of acquaintances with whom to share such depth of understanding. ... This kind of aloneness is "shared" by all who travel the farthest on the journey of spiritual growth. It is such a burden that it simply could not be borne were it not for the fact that as we outdistance our fellow humans our relationship to God inevitably becomes correspondingly closer. In the communion of growing consciousness, of knowing with God, there is enough joy to sustain us." ~ M. Scott Peck - The Road Less Travelled, p.288-289

 

[HeartCore]

you seem to link quantum tunneling, donuts and DNA

Don't forget dismissing anyones sanity who even dares to doubt the taste of the particular donut of the day...


Ontopic: Alienation is not needed, listen to Fork. If people feel threatened by the things you say, maybe you have to reconsider the rate and enthusiasm with which you bring your ideas to these people. I can relate to being in the situation where you feel completely awake yet the world around you seems hopelessly behind in relation to your new found view of everything. Isn't it ironic that most of us travelers to these new frontiers meet the inexplicable profound revelations that awaken us, renew our interest in life and then, we fall for the trap of trying to communicate exactly 'that which goes beyond words' to the people who haven't been there themselves, hopelessly tripping over descriptions we cannot put into words if our life depended on it.

If you want to talk with birds and trees, it's your right to do so. If you talk with birds and trees without caring for the usual stuff like taking care of yourself, people will lock you up. It's as simple as that. I think the greatest challenge of us western psychonautic pioneers is to find our place back in the culture which we outgrew and from which we remove ourselves farther away with every deep journey we make. It's a challenge but it can be done. Make a living doing something you love. If you can't make money with something you love, learn something so you can instead of keeping doing the things you hate and depress you.

If someone calls you dangerous, do they mean dangerous to you or to them? There is a difference. If they feel you are a danger to them, there must be a reason for that which you haven't shared yet. If they feel you are dangerous to yourself, just refer to sky diving, snowboarding, mountain biking etc.... There's danger everywhere. If they call you a freak, be proud to be different. There are times to shut the fuck up, and times to speak out. If you cannot get your point across in three tries with people, maybe it's a hint to wait a few months and ask yourself what the problem with your argument is.

And never forget, the world is also filled with dumbasses and assholes but neither is a reason for you to feel bad about.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What is going on?
The intensity of the alienating process seems proportional to how far I've been taking what can be called my "psychonautism".

When Neo took the red pill, he was instantly alienated from the Matrix. This was extremely disconcerting to him at first, but once he learned and then accepted the truth he no longer felt alienated, but empowered. If you want to get rid of that feeling of alienation, see how far the rabbit hole really goes. From where you are now, there's no turning back. Go furthur.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

:lol:

 

[HeartCore]

What is going on?
The intensity of the alienating process seems proportional to how far I've been taking what can be called my "psychonautism".

When Neo took the red pill, he was instantly alienated from the Matrix. This was extremely disconcerting to him at first, but once he learned and then accepted the truth he no longer felt alienated, but empowered. If you want to get rid of that feeling of alienation, see how far the rabbit hole really goes. From where you are now, there's no turning back. Go furthur.

Tibetan saying (as I was told): "Its best to never start on the path of awakening but once you do, you better finish it."

 

[restin]

bullshit. What Nomada feels is not anything "awakening" at all. Why do you encourage him to continue separating from his friends and environment? If he (resp you) is/are feeling unwell by this alienation it is a clear symptom to change something in the own behaviour. Not changing oneself or doing what one likes, but changing communication with the environment. Going to far into oneself, separating from the world is the first step to schizophrenia and unhappiness. Being a monk, travelling alone is something different than a student who has his environment and needs to communicate. This has nothing to do with Neo or any other myth.