.

[Brugmansia]

We humans are so detached from where we were when it all started. We have a lot of controversy to look back on, which left us with only one option to save structure in order to assure our existance; manipulation of our original senses with the belief included that this is our sensory in it's purest form.

That, and analysing everything in the now and the future with the intelligence we possess, makes it inevitable that the belief of being further than other species attends.

It is goddamn harsh to look back on how we came here. And what the actual exchange has been. It is almost as committing mental suicide by even looking at it extensively if you put down your defenses. We have put many of our fellows in a burning oven to serve our insipid individual belief of what is nature and what not. For thousands of years while we were fully consciousness of what our acts were, we proceeded them endlessy altogether.

We may be indeed special if we look at the program we're running now, but if humanity includes it's CV from it's beginning till now within the judgement, and implements two objective and critical eyes, the worth special is misplaced.

If you educate yourself a bit on the hedgehog and it's sensory, you may notice why this mammal is hiding, and what kind of wealth it is protecting.

 

[Libertine]

Are we special? I don't know. But our behavior seems to be parasitic in nature. Our numbers are growing exponentially with no signs of slowing, we are voraciously consuming all the resources of the host (the Earth) and not giving anything of benefit in return. That is a scenario which is untenable for our survival and like a parasite if our behavior remains the same we will eventually kill off the host. If we are 'special' you would think we would collectively realize that we are part of a ecosystem...an ecosystem that is responsible for providing us with what we need to live and one that we are destroying. We are a contradiction...capable of incredible feats of genius and stupidity.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Is a human still a human when one gene is changed, 2? 3? 100? ...etc.

The proof would be in the pudding. If that being can do the type of complex feeling, thinking, loving, communicating, calculating, reasoning and peaking that we do, or more so, I would consider it to be human (or humanoid).

The separation of humans as a life form is purely arbitrary.

That doesn't mean we can't distinguish the current human form of life (homo sapiens) from other species.

Yes, but DNA cannot exist at temperatures found at the "crunch" part of that cycle

I didn't say DNA, molecules and atoms would have to go through that cycle as they are. Or that there's only one Big Bang cycle occuring.

Therefore no life was possible at the big bang.

Agreed. But no one is suggesting that at the Big Bang human beings or DNA strands were hurled out of the singularity.

When something is happening now, that was not happening at an earlier time, it can be said that it *started* at some point.

Sure, but you still can't create life now. You can't artifically assemble atoms to create a human body.

The nassim position contains a heady amount of massive leaps in logic - he makes assumptions and claims without justifying them

Point the leaps out please. I've already pointed out that your cherished evolution theories contain a missing link, requiring me to take a massive leap of faith. The Big Bang as a singular event theory also has serious flaws.

Just because it doesn't deny eternal existence doesn't mean it proves it.

Did I say it should? GOD was the one who had issues with eternal existence, because the traditional Big Bang theory rules that possibility out. I'm saying: yes, but what if the Big Bang is a continuous process?

Where does the paper prove eternal existence? if it doesn't then you've just wasted my time by getting me to read it

No I didn't, you've wasted your time yourself if you read the paper with a faultfinding attitude. Moreover, my response to your question about eternal existence was answered with this link, not the paper:
Nassim Haramein's Unified Field Theory[/quote]. On those pages are several videos in which eternal existence is discussed. I suggested you take your time, but instead you responded within an hour or so...

I posted the link to the paper to help you understand the singularity according to Haramein's concept, not to prove eternal existence. In fact I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just suggesting you consider another way of looking at existence.

The paper doesn't look properly peer reviewed to me.

And Iboga has not been proven to be effective in randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies yet, so why bother reading about it on the Internet or in the MAPS Newsletter, right? Wrong. Where something is published is irrelevant, unless Nassim himself purposefully avoided sending his papers to other journals. But that we don't know yet.

Just because the established intelligentsia decide not to publish certain controversial data or grant money for further research, doesn't mean it's any less valid.

Which isn't really in a position to tell whether he's talking rubbish or not.

No journal and organization is in the position to tell anyone what is rubbish or not. Only the reader is in that position.

There are flaws I see in it, and I'm not even a physicist. but I think I've wasted enough of my time on this stuff.

You've wasted your time with a half-arsed effort, that's all. You've not convinced me that Nassim is on the wrong track. I'm sharing this knowledge here for peer review, but all you guys give it is a casual glance.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

but you dont talk about things rationaly you keep preaching your esoteric fringe ideas and presenting them as fact .

When I'm too rational you accuse me of 'playing games with words', when I present a theory you claim I present it as fact. When I discuss geometry, you call it esoteric fringe ideas. Meanwhile all you have to offer the psychonaut community are wikipedia pages on the Big Bang theory, which most of us already studied sufficiently in high school.

To understand something one has to at least look , think and talk about it neutraly , objectively and criticaly

So why did you immediately equate Nassim Haramein with David Icke and Gnostic Media? Is that a neutral and objective attitude?

or one is just doing what your doing preaching your "world view " as fact to other people .

I'm offering aspects of my current world view for peer review here. That's not the same as preaching. Neither do I claim my world view is factual or definite. All I'm saying is that based on what I know, it makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Caduceus being a slimey clever dick

:?

 

[Dantediv86]

EDIT: OOPS ! i'm late SORRY CM!!!
if you can call nassim a scientist you really gotta have guts that guy can't even spend a bit more time calculating the changes supposed to be made when calculating from newtonian physics to einsteinian physics he's so eager to publish!!
he's no different from those "Experts" who found out smoking "Marhehuanna" "CAUSES"(???????) to become gay :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
seriously people
doublecheck your sources before saying something, otherwise present it as something flashy that you Like as an idea and that you are willing to explore for future reference or philosophical subject for debate.

 

[Dantediv86]

However it's interesting that he came up with a concept that I myself have been noticing in nature.
tho i don't like his idea of the spin and torque, call me too oldschool
but so far einstein and hawking are the ones i like to listen to when it comes to gravity and timespace continuum.
i like his drawings tho they are pretty and flashy
and yes the idea of being governed by spirals is a cool one! tell the aborigenies!

 

[st.bot.32]

Its a common mistake for people not really familiar with the scientific method to misunderstand the scientific use of the word "theory."

A theory in science is not a conjecture or a guess. It is a working model with predictive power that is designed to explain empirical data. Hence Einstein's theories of relativity are "theories" but the atom bomb works quite well, also we can have satellites in orbit that work because we understand principles regarding the speed of light, etc. Likewise with any other scientific theory. It is not just some imaginative guess.

Nassir is presenting a fanciful conjecture, using the word "theory" in the colloquial sense... It's not a scientific theory, anymore than rap music is country. It does have a lot of sexy graphics though.

If his model stands up to peer review, and proves to be useful, then maybe someday it will become accepted as theory.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Einstein basic rules have clearly been phased out by now, you only need to look what happened at the CERN.

Anyways, it's playing out right now, we'll have our answer soon enough ; we can't say we haven't asked for it huh...

If you asked me I'd blow that damned machine up, fucking billions of dollars can feed the planet for years, but no, they prefer to know if maybe we have a chance of maybe becoming god with science, how ridiculous ! It's an insult to humanity, a big ONE ring for the finger of our divinity.

:finga:

 

[restin]

It's an insult to humanity, a big ONE ring for the finger of our divinity.

heh heh heh that's a good metaphor to think about :lol:

 

[st.bot.32]

Einstein basic rules have clearly been phased out by now, you only need to look what happened at the CERN.

Where? Einstein's theories have been continuously proven correct especially when dealing with particles moving at near-light speeds. In the same way Newton's law of gravity doesn't account for relativity, his theories however, do not deal with quantum mechanics, which is why we have different working theories regarding interactions and behaviors of subatomic particles..

If you asked me I'd blow that damned machine up, fucking billions of dollars can feed the planet for years, but no, they prefer to know if maybe we have a chance of maybe becoming god with science, how ridiculous ! It's an insult to humanity, a big ONE ring for the finger of our divinity

Who wants to become a god with science? Where?

And how is throwing billions of dollars (which is a fraciton of a percentage of what is spent on say military, etc) at the starving going to feed them, when the money and resources are ALREADY THERE, but it is human greed and corruption, despotic regimes and greedy corporations that are keeping people hungry?

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

You listened to too much TV...

Sorry dude it's not like this... you can use money to pay the corrupt regimes AND enhance their populations at the same time... A few millions to the despot he's going to say : teach them how to grow their own food all you want !

This is NOT money talk-show anyways.

Yes quantum physics, torsion field physics make the whole einstein paradigm look like the theory of gravity. Uhh yes there is something, and uhh yes electro-magnetism links ; uh somehow it does, we don't know how but here's how to calculate the result. BOOM ! Oops well that was a side effect of not knowing what were dealing with I guess...

Uhh if there is quantum theory then perhaps a single explosion does much more damage to the earth than we can possibly imagine. Uhh, oh shit now the french are blowing them up in the paradisiac islands, killing whole coral reefs underwater... POSSIBLY CAUSING MARINE MUTATIONS ?! What there are millions and millions of humboldt invading the west us coast ? They're eating all the fish...

Hmm that must be because of the warm currents... yea. We like those things.

I mean it's not hard to see the pattern here... the CERN purpose is meant to find the origin of matter, and be able to HARNESS that power of course, thats their excuse for just being TOO curious. Remember what killed the cat ?

 

[GOD]

"Remember what killed the cat ?"

Remember what kept / keeps us in the dark ages ?

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

The dark ages are long gone brother... it's an illusion perpetrated by your own matrix, and it will spin like a broken disk until we wake up out of it be acknowledging it for what it is.

What kept those people in the dark ages is gullibility, inability to think for themselves.

And I can feeel : cold as a razorblade, tight as a tourniquet, dry as a funeral drum.

 

[GOD]

"What kept those people in the dark ages is gullibility, inability to think for themselves. "

It was the catholic church forbiding free thinking and scientific explanations in exchange for esoteric doctrin .

 

[st.bot.32]

free thinking

two words frequently used as a pejorative in the organized religions i've been exposed to.

 

[Brugmansia]

It's an insult to humanity, a big ONE ring for the finger of our divinity.

:finga:

Checkmate.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

Oh yes we did it... and they lost at their own game ! But it's not over however. Now we'll have to be constructive about it and never be tempted to dip in mysticism again.

You know I think you're right God... but St-bot well shows you why I keep a wizard's stance.

Because the church soon realised if they had no physical opponent, their way of living would crumble when people realised thats stupid fantasy about god saving you or a savior coming.

So the same group you hate, financed also the free-masons, the free thinkers who developed much of the acidity you attack most stream of consciousness with. And science (not all science, as I said before I don't think in extremes) is the source of that acid.

People run to it, give their dreams in exchange for some acid, run back to the bank, spit it on the safe, run out with some money and think : Oh I did this myself, I am a freethinker.

But I submit to you that as long as you think about money, you cannot become that side you so well perceive and which I admire in you. I let you speak (I'm not putting myself in a position of power, you did and publicly) because I know fullwell that if I throw hemp fiber in your acid it will solidify in plastic so hard your best axe will do nothing about it.

Just look at whats at the US house of congress or wherever they choose which laws pass... two huge, GIGANTIC Fasces. An axe, in a bundle of wood, and oh yes, thats the roman laurier crown twisted and wrapped around it.

So the church, and the freemasons are two sides of the same coin !

 

[GOD]

"pejorative"

I thought that that was something one takes when one cant shit ?

 

[st.bot.32]

i think that would be ex-lax

Who says humans aren't special. We've refined the art of shitting

 

[Brugmansia]

Remember what kept / keeps us in the dark ages ?

Checkmate.

*Rolls the sleeve of his wrist up* Now. Game on. Blotters, mushies. Anyone?