.

[Dantediv86]

About the aliens y'all were talking about:
has anyone seen the movie K-Pax? really nice ideas there.
about humans being different, i'd say we are the only mammal who's been able to break the bonds of the laws of nature imposed to all mammals, and primates in particular, we have become a hybrid between a monkey, a virus and a bacteria (behaviourlike), but at the same time we aren't evolved enough to realize what we are where we come from and where we are going...so to a certain extent we are still under the laws of nature (in the end DNA is a redundant molecule that is found all over life forms, and it always behaves the same way, code and replicate).
So until we actually understand why this happens, we are just monkeys with a bigger brain and time to spare to actually notice we think therefore we are.
we can't see ourselves as special at all!
we are a product of our environment ( and we have been creating our own environment lately, so we really are not going to go anywhere) and we are lucky to even be able to understand that.
but who knows, maybe the dolphins have it figured out already, but we are so stupid we can't understand them...

 

[robhR]

Those are mistakes our predecessors made, with the limited knowledge and experience they had. But human beings can and do learn from their mistakes, or the mistakes of their forefathers.

Nah, they got hit with a comet.

But it would be a similar situation... With the ozone depletion and... stuff.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

DNA a redundant molecule? :?

Wow, I just started watching a video someone sent me. No idea what it is about yet, but the first minute is SO on-topic, I just have to post it here: Kymatica :shock:

 

[Dantediv86]

redundant as there's plenty and not in the sense that is useless
(edit)
and that it's repeating itself, over and over and over, therefore we are all coded for
in our behaviors
so there is very little space for free will
(i can't believe i just said that, i myself is an advocate of freedom)
ok
i apologize i used the wrong wording

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Ah, ok. Abundant rather than redundant.

Nah, they got hit with a comet.

No, I meant our forefathers who went through and struggled to get out of the Dark Ages and through the rapid industrial revolution. They were not hit with a comet.

 

[robhR]

Oh. I was talking about the dinosaur fossil fuel... stuff...

Never mind.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

so there is very little space for free will
(i can't believe i just said that, i myself is an advocate of freedom)

Freedom and free will are not the same. You can be an advocate of freedom while acknowledging that free will is never independent of the free will of others or the purpose of the universe as a whole. We are all embedded within larger structures than ourselves. We are never fully independent. Absolute free will is a fantasy of the ego. Absolute embeddedness is a much more humble and sensible way of looking at the dichotemy of freedom and predetermination.

 

[IJesusChrist]

.. if you arranged 10^24 molecules in a specific way you could make a human - would this human be special too?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

.. if you arranged 10^24 molecules in a specific way you could make a human - would this human be special too?

Only life can arrange those molecules. Life can not be created, only passed on.

 

[GOD]

" Life can not be created, only passed on."

That is your personal theory and not a fact . It can not be true as that would mean that life has always existed .

"Already, synthetic biologists have created a polio virus and another smaller virus by stitching together individual genes purchased from biotechnology companies."

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

That is your personal theory and not a fact . It can not be true as that would mean that life has always existed .

For as long as we can trace it back, human life has been passed on from one generation to the next. That's not my theory, that's just the way it is. Human beings might become very expert at arranging molecules, but they'll never be able to create a mammal. A virus perhaps, but not bacteria, much less a human being. The burden of proof is on your side.

By the way, why do you think it's impossible that life has always existed?

 

[GOD]

So you are denying that humans evolved from apes and deny evolution ?

You made a statement so its you that has to prove it .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

So you are denying that humans evolved from apes and deny evolution ?

Not necessarily. I just said that you can't create a new life cycle. All new life springs forth from what's already living.

What I do deny is that there's evidence that humans evolved from apes. It's a theory, with an undeniable 'missing link' as the theorists call it themselves. We're not bound by that theory. Our research and future discoveries do not have to conform to it.

I do not deny evolution through mutation, natural selection etc. But that doesn't mean I also have to believe apes turned into homo sapiens. Perhaps it happened that way, but at this point in time neither of us can tell.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

" Life can not be created, only passed on."

That is your personal theory and not a fact . It can not be true as that would mean that life has always existed .

Why do you think it's impossible that life has always existed?

 

[GOD]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition ... onceptions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition ... sing_links

"Why do you think it's impossible that life has always existed?"

I didnt say that .

Dont play with the definitions of words again . There is no absolute proof of anything . Science has a level of "proof" that it acepts as proof .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I didnt say that .

OK, you said the following: "It can not be true as that would mean that life has always existed ."

You rule out the possibility of eternal life because it would imply "life has always existed". I have no issues with accepting the idea that life forms could be eternal, but you do. That's why I asked you why you consider it impossible that life has existed forever. I didn't play with words at all.

There is no absolute proof of anything . Science has a level of "proof" that it acepts as proof .

If "science" decides to accept certain theories as "proof" then that's their business. The church basically does the same thing. In my search for truth I will not be limited by any of such theories, and it's saddening to see how you have limited yourself.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"Already, synthetic biologists have created a polio virus and another smaller virus by stitching together individual genes purchased from biotechnology companies."

The ability to stitch together genes to make a virus says nothing about the possibility of "arranging 10^24 molecules in a specific way to make a human".

I checked the source of your statement (here) and noticed the biotechnology companies didn't make these genes themselves, but took them from species already in existence:

Keasling, who doubles as a chemical engineering professor at the University of California, Berkeley, hopes to create never-before-seen living molecules by fusing genes from the three species...

So the statement you cited in response to my statement that "Only life can arrange those molecules. Life can not be created, only passed on" should have read:

"Already, synthetic biologists have created a polio virus and another smaller virus by stitching together individual genes purchased from biotechnology companies, who took them from living organisms."

Like I said, you can't create life out of molecules. It can only be passed on. You can't create a new fractal, you can only witness the birth of new fractal divisions (children) and their modified or mutated subdivisions.

 

[IJesusChrist]

.. if you arranged 10^24 molecules in a specific way you could make a human - would this human be special too?

Only life can arrange those molecules. Life can not be created, only passed on.

So your saying its impossible.
... It is possible, if you give a monkey a type writer and an infinite amount of time to live - the monkey will write shakespeare.
If you give a planet carbon oxygen and nitrogen, and a few billion years, a cell will form - at quite a higher chance than the monkey with a type writer given the same amount of time.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

... It is possible, if you give a monkey a type writer and an infinite amount of time to live - the monkey will write shakespeare.

LOL

 

[????????]

... It is possible, if you give a monkey a type writer and an infinite amount of time to live - the monkey will write shakespeare.

infinite amount of time



infinite amount



infinite