WHY you should not buy meat
- Auteur de la discussion Psychoid
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VerusDeus
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I am not a vegetarian, still I don't feel offended by people saying meat-eaters are murderers. Because it's the truth! and if i still want to eat meat i'll just have to live with that fact, but the vegetarians here are just reminding us that when we buy steak in a supermarket, it's a piece of murdered animal, not just a nice meal.
G
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Dantediv86 a dit:
Sorry bro, but this little sentence killed your whole statement :roll:
I think this is a subject that can perfectly be discussed on a psychonaut forum, why not?
General Psychonautics is a very broad term, I mean meditation can also be discussed, so why not veganism/vegetarianism?
Expanding the mind and stopping to eat meat (red at least) is a good combination.
Also not wanting to kill an animal because it has been slaughtered is also a positive thing (no matter what you say, every substance you get out of meat you can get from vegetables and fruit)
I do however agree that nobody should point fingers if somebody still choses to eat meat and I don't think antimeat-extremism is the solution.
:thumbsup:VerusDeus a dit:
:heart: & :idea:
It's funny, I think psychedelics had the exact opposite effect on me..
I grew up in a religion where we had to be very nitpicky about what we ate, and always had the guilt, fear of eating something wrong.. maybe part of coming out of that religion was getting as far away as possible from that perception.
Nowadays a large percentage of my friends are either vegan or vegetarian so I tend not to eat so much meat anyway (occasionally gone weeks!), which is fine, most people eat far more meat than they should (or entirely a meat diet, yech, people who do that seem to age twice as fast)! And of course you can buy only local meat and free range eggs, those kinds of things, etc. More expensive, but buy less, consume less is an improvement.
One reason the vegan emotional argument doesn't work with meat-eaters, is that to become a vegan one either curbs, or perhaps never really had carnivorous tendencies to begin with. When a vegan looks at a cow and goes "awww cuuute!" or "beautiful" a carnivore looks at the cow and goes.. "steak... yummmy!"
Shocking, I know, but true.
I grew up in a religion where we had to be very nitpicky about what we ate, and always had the guilt, fear of eating something wrong.. maybe part of coming out of that religion was getting as far away as possible from that perception.
Nowadays a large percentage of my friends are either vegan or vegetarian so I tend not to eat so much meat anyway (occasionally gone weeks!), which is fine, most people eat far more meat than they should (or entirely a meat diet, yech, people who do that seem to age twice as fast)! And of course you can buy only local meat and free range eggs, those kinds of things, etc. More expensive, but buy less, consume less is an improvement.
One reason the vegan emotional argument doesn't work with meat-eaters, is that to become a vegan one either curbs, or perhaps never really had carnivorous tendencies to begin with. When a vegan looks at a cow and goes "awww cuuute!" or "beautiful" a carnivore looks at the cow and goes.. "steak... yummmy!"
Shocking, I know, but true.
Dantediv86
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yes and i eat pork too!
i guess schizzophrenia runs in my family
i should be a polititian :twisted:
EDIT: not only i'm killing anymals...i'm killing STATEMENTS TOO!! MUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :twisted:
somebadeh stopp meh!!!
i guess schizzophrenia runs in my family
i should be a polititian :twisted:
EDIT: not only i'm killing anymals...i'm killing STATEMENTS TOO!! MUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :twisted:
somebadeh stopp meh!!!
exploring the unkown :roll:Mycophile a dit:
Thanks to psychoid i know a little bit more about this subject.
On vegan.com it would have passed me completly.
[funnymode]
:roll: what about the mouse?[/funnymode]and what parts in computers are made from animals?
Dantediv86
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my cat goes crazy for the mouse
seriously!! i have a pet cat that goes bananas for the mouse cause it's got flickering lights whenever i move it :lol:
seriously!! i have a pet cat that goes bananas for the mouse cause it's got flickering lights whenever i move it :lol:
Enjoy!
I know I would if I would still eat meat.
I only point fingers to people who bring it up. Usually I keep quiet about this when I am at friends or family but it's always coming up as a subject. I do my best not to lecture to people about it, realizing I haven't seen the meatless light for 37 years myself. But when you are vegan/vegetarian, one of the things that happens is that you have to defend yourself often against corpse eaters. They will often start a discussion which tends to get heated (hey don't fucking ask if you don't want to know).
I don't need to talk about it and I don't have to defend it. I just feel my body and realize how healthy it is since last year. My weight has been going between 90 en 120 kilo for the past fifteen years, since I chanced my diet my weight is perfect which is great for sports like running which I found a real challenge to do before my diet change but having a blast with it now.
mysticwarrior
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Okay, of course there are animal parts in our computers, you find animals in lots of products. But right now i`m vegan for 8 years, and i`m an animal rights activist. 8 Years ago, a friend of mine took me with him to some demonstration, and that's when my live was turned up side down. I never thought that animals where so much abused, on school we learned something different. So i was angry of these lies, and turned to be vegan and fighting for the rest of my life for animals. Because they deserve respect, we don't need them to survive, so why still eating them, filling them with pain. Or putting on close, wich are made from minks and foxes. It's totally insane.
This is a radical view, but in fact it's true. It's all like a holocaust, minks and foxes living in cages, row after row. And the sheds where they stay in, really looks like the ones hitler used in 1940-45. Minks and foxes are also being gassed, so if we do everything to stop people who are willing to mass murder other people. Why don't stop people, who are killing so much animals. Billions of animals are just been killed for the TASTE and stupid luxury.
I`m getting pist off again.
So please people GO VEGAN! Rebuild your lives, and don't buy meat anymore.
Greets,
Mysticwarrior.
Klaatu
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I'm tired of the whole "murderers/hypocrites" argumentation. Things aren't that simple.
I have a diet consisting mostly of vegetables for health reasons. I do eat dairy products, eggs, and sometimes a bit of fish. Fish is good, and it's healthy, if you don't eat it all the time.
Eat what you please. I don't see a point in trying to force people into vegetarianism by showing them videos that show how animals are sometimes treated, neither in saying that because there are tiny particles of cow almost everywhere you are wasting your time being a vegan. No living person can do 100% good to this Earth, you always have to consume something and/or be a part of something that does consume something that might do a little harm to the environment or kill a couple of animals, unless you completely detach yourself from your society, and even then you might do some harm. A person not causing anything "bad" to the environment is a person not born.
Trying to do a little less harm isn't hypocritical, saying that the amount of harm you do is "good" and anyone choosing to live in a way that causes a little more harm is "bad" is.
It's completely OK to choose to eat meat. If you think that we as humans have to "evolve" away from eating meat as much as we have to "evolve" from believing in a God, having sex all the time or other such things that some people seem to think are "monkeyish", then OK. Not all people think like you. We have plenty of space for all ideas and people.
I have to agree with Mycophile, this discussion has nothing to do with "General Psychonautics", we have "Politics, Legal issues & The Media" with topics like "EXXON IS EVIL" etc.
I have a diet consisting mostly of vegetables for health reasons. I do eat dairy products, eggs, and sometimes a bit of fish. Fish is good, and it's healthy, if you don't eat it all the time.
Eat what you please. I don't see a point in trying to force people into vegetarianism by showing them videos that show how animals are sometimes treated, neither in saying that because there are tiny particles of cow almost everywhere you are wasting your time being a vegan. No living person can do 100% good to this Earth, you always have to consume something and/or be a part of something that does consume something that might do a little harm to the environment or kill a couple of animals, unless you completely detach yourself from your society, and even then you might do some harm. A person not causing anything "bad" to the environment is a person not born.
Trying to do a little less harm isn't hypocritical, saying that the amount of harm you do is "good" and anyone choosing to live in a way that causes a little more harm is "bad" is.
It's completely OK to choose to eat meat. If you think that we as humans have to "evolve" away from eating meat as much as we have to "evolve" from believing in a God, having sex all the time or other such things that some people seem to think are "monkeyish", then OK. Not all people think like you. We have plenty of space for all ideas and people.
I have to agree with Mycophile, this discussion has nothing to do with "General Psychonautics", we have "Politics, Legal issues & The Media" with topics like "EXXON IS EVIL" etc.
McDonalds is evil, too.
Awareness and the lack thereof is why it is a psychonaut issue.
your words were, and I quote; : its completely OK to choose to eat meat".
Yes, it is, if you ACTUALLY MADE THE FUCKING CHOICE BY THINKING FOR YOURSELF.
If you were conditioned into it, like 99.8% of the planet, then, it might not be all that OK.
Whether you have chains on your ankles, or in your mind, the net result is the same.....slavery.
It IS too a psychedelic, psychonautic issue.
Awareness and the lack thereof is why it is a psychonaut issue.
your words were, and I quote; : its completely OK to choose to eat meat".
Yes, it is, if you ACTUALLY MADE THE FUCKING CHOICE BY THINKING FOR YOURSELF.
If you were conditioned into it, like 99.8% of the planet, then, it might not be all that OK.
Whether you have chains on your ankles, or in your mind, the net result is the same.....slavery.
It IS too a psychedelic, psychonautic issue.
It's unhealthy, too. The ACS and the AHA have both been saying for a long time now that they believe that a meat-rich diet increases your chance of dying a slow, painful death.
If part of the process of becoming a psychonaut is expanding your awareness, then how, please tell me, HOW is becoming more healthy,
as well as becoming more aware of the insidious devices used by industries to coerce consumerism, how is this a non-psychonautic issue?
In a different context, it may have been appropriate, for instance, at the end of the last ice age, eating meat is probably what sustained the human race, until we could develop cultivation practices, etc....
For the American Indians, who actually lived in balance with the land, never taking more than what was absolutely necessary, it may have been 'right'...
But in context, none of us are in any kind of balance.
We BELIEVE the propaganda of the meat farmers...." Oh, they don't feel pain"
" Meat is gooood for you"
" Only communist hippie fanatics don't eat meat"
" Meat, its whats for dinner"
How can you call it irrelevant?
If part of the process of becoming a psychonaut is expanding your awareness, then how, please tell me, HOW is becoming more healthy,
as well as becoming more aware of the insidious devices used by industries to coerce consumerism, how is this a non-psychonautic issue?
In a different context, it may have been appropriate, for instance, at the end of the last ice age, eating meat is probably what sustained the human race, until we could develop cultivation practices, etc....
For the American Indians, who actually lived in balance with the land, never taking more than what was absolutely necessary, it may have been 'right'...
But in context, none of us are in any kind of balance.
We BELIEVE the propaganda of the meat farmers...." Oh, they don't feel pain"
" Meat is gooood for you"
" Only communist hippie fanatics don't eat meat"
" Meat, its whats for dinner"
How can you call it irrelevant?
Dantediv86
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therefore we shouldn't even be using these computers and the net? for every minute we spend on the net and typing on the computer we give money to the system wich uses the money to make food for us and utensils wich come from thousands of slaughtered animals...gee it's true that whatever we do damages something...even by placing our hand on the board we kill thousands of microorganisms and as we grow our plants we eradicate weeds that might hinder their growth
yup i guess we have to live with it and try to think like the little indians that (the caucasians slaughtered by the way) were in balance with nature...
ok guys from now on i'll stop staying connected to this forum 24/7 and using my computer unless necessary
see ya people
my eyes just opend a tad bit more
yup i guess we have to live with it and try to think like the little indians that (the caucasians slaughtered by the way) were in balance with nature...
ok guys from now on i'll stop staying connected to this forum 24/7 and using my computer unless necessary
see ya people
my eyes just opend a tad bit more
No, Dante....
One war at a time. To imply that one shouldn't function on the web via computer, like we do, simply because there is an animal product somewhere in the indirect manufacture, is ludicrous.
Republicans use this kind of reasoning all the tiime. FIRST, you must attack the bigger issues. If animal glue was used at some point in the manufacture of computers, then all that means is that once people become aware enough, then that can stop, too.
Glue in computers is a bit more subtle form of evil than a Big Mac with cheese. The linear track of exploitation is easier to identify with the meat examples....as such, it is an easier issue to use to get people interested in, and act on, BECAUSE there is a more direct emotional
connection.
This is using the politicians OWN tactics, riling people up emotionally to get them involved ( look at B. Obama for modern example).
Deflecting this thought with defeat-ism ( " you may as well quit using the computer because it's made with animal glue ") is another
politician-type tactic.
This is changing the fucking subject at its best.
Debate the subject on its merits, which means not being able to stray too far from the point......you can only kill the hydra one head at a time.
One war at a time. To imply that one shouldn't function on the web via computer, like we do, simply because there is an animal product somewhere in the indirect manufacture, is ludicrous.
Republicans use this kind of reasoning all the tiime. FIRST, you must attack the bigger issues. If animal glue was used at some point in the manufacture of computers, then all that means is that once people become aware enough, then that can stop, too.
Glue in computers is a bit more subtle form of evil than a Big Mac with cheese. The linear track of exploitation is easier to identify with the meat examples....as such, it is an easier issue to use to get people interested in, and act on, BECAUSE there is a more direct emotional
connection.
This is using the politicians OWN tactics, riling people up emotionally to get them involved ( look at B. Obama for modern example).
Deflecting this thought with defeat-ism ( " you may as well quit using the computer because it's made with animal glue ") is another
politician-type tactic.
This is changing the fucking subject at its best.
Debate the subject on its merits, which means not being able to stray too far from the point......you can only kill the hydra one head at a time.
Brugmansia
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What about tigers who rip zebra's to shreds to satisfy their appetite? Humans are organisms just like tigers. We both have our own unique method before we consume.
I'm not supporting banning meat-animal consumption, but these acts should be forbidden! Their life value should be taken with respect and the transfer from life to death should be harmless and done in a split second with no suffering. No genetical manipulation or boosting their fat storage.
Meat should costs a lot more for consumers as well the bio/industry to provide their shorten lifes a pleasant time. We humans do have the intelligence for that, unlike Tigers.
I only red meat myself due to the vitamine B12, iron and various other high quality minerals, vitamines and proteins. Meat consumption might be not healthy according scientists, but pig meat is worse than red meat. And fish containing lots of Omega-3 chains, is a strong vessels and heart protector. I will never eat pig meat myself.
Wrong, psychonauts tend to have a strong empathy for organisms and can identify quite closely with any physical or mental sensation of them. And these pshysical impulses are barbadic. If you still stand with your statement and deny that there's no connection it's about time you increase your dosages or deplete narrow-minding substances. Although you could state you do not agree with other people's point of view.
Your last sentence is a totally unnecessary attempt to rub salt in other members their wounds.
I'm not supporting banning meat-animal consumption, but these acts should be forbidden! Their life value should be taken with respect and the transfer from life to death should be harmless and done in a split second with no suffering. No genetical manipulation or boosting their fat storage.
Meat should costs a lot more for consumers as well the bio/industry to provide their shorten lifes a pleasant time. We humans do have the intelligence for that, unlike Tigers.
I only red meat myself due to the vitamine B12, iron and various other high quality minerals, vitamines and proteins. Meat consumption might be not healthy according scientists, but pig meat is worse than red meat. And fish containing lots of Omega-3 chains, is a strong vessels and heart protector. I will never eat pig meat myself.
Mycophile a dit:
Wrong, psychonauts tend to have a strong empathy for organisms and can identify quite closely with any physical or mental sensation of them. And these pshysical impulses are barbadic. If you still stand with your statement and deny that there's no connection it's about time you increase your dosages or deplete narrow-minding substances. Although you could state you do not agree with other people's point of view.
Your last sentence is a totally unnecessary attempt to rub salt in other members their wounds.
Dantediv86
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the problem is that every time you take a head off the hydra two new ones spring out...how about crushing it?
oh shit i replied...i'll have to fustigate myself, if only it didn't involve so much pain...
you guys we talked and talked and talked about this issue and the more i read the more i see people grasping to their viewpoints
this is a discussion that is going nowhere...the only new thing i've learned today is that indeed it is a general psychonautics issue to talk about these things
and that i'm going crazy
and acting too childish out of boredom, i'm feeling an egoswell like i've never felt before and i've been reading too many uncomfortable books one after the other
and using the computer is polluting and i'm feeling guilty not for the glue but for the amount of excess, uselessly emitted CO2 that i'm causing by staying on...i'm not reasoning like a repubblican ("on that day God wept" gee Hicks still cracks me up) i'm realizing so many things at the same time, i'm sober and it hurts...my body is imploring me to stop doing this to myself, stop thinking so much and go back to the warmth of the bed and obliviousness of deep sleep, as if this is going to stop the horrors in the world.
i'm not against eating meat and i don't want to preach, as i am against preaching.
and pretending eat-meaters to understand our point of view is like asking a Catholic to undestand the legalization of abortion...
i realized today that what makes us human is disobedience, we are the only creature on this marvellous planet that doesn't follow the rules of nature we break every single one of them
and those are the rules that god made when he/she/they created the motherfucking universe...
the first thing we did
was disobey
the allegory of Adam and Eve holds this truth
we disobeyed God, nature, Allah, call him whatever you like he won't answer
I tried yesterday and many times before, the only thing i got was his answering machine that told me he was absent and put me on hold (that is what i got everytime i tried to get a contact, everytime i got into deeper states of meditation or assumed entheogens)
and we keep disobeying these really simple rules that allow life on earth to be in balance.
but i'm happy about one thing
one thing
and that is that nature can hold so much (god created it ad hoc) and when the balance is tipped over a catastrophe just brings nature back one step towards its original equilibrium, and we suffer oh the death of thousands of innocents...the divine flood that cleaned the earth of all beings eccept Noah and the animals is another interesting allegory
humanity is its worst enemy
someday we will be extinguished like the dinosaurs way before us and a new equilibrium will be installed
life is a pendulum
"what comes up must come down" and eventually what went down will come up again.
it's true what one of the signatures around here say
"you can't change reality 'cause reality is change"
the only thing we can do is make our reality better for us and the ones around us
and if someone doesn't want to see the good intent we bring he has the freedom to refuse it and we can move on with and/or without them
oh shit i replied...i'll have to fustigate myself, if only it didn't involve so much pain...
you guys we talked and talked and talked about this issue and the more i read the more i see people grasping to their viewpoints
this is a discussion that is going nowhere...the only new thing i've learned today is that indeed it is a general psychonautics issue to talk about these things
and that i'm going crazy
and acting too childish out of boredom, i'm feeling an egoswell like i've never felt before and i've been reading too many uncomfortable books one after the other
and using the computer is polluting and i'm feeling guilty not for the glue but for the amount of excess, uselessly emitted CO2 that i'm causing by staying on...i'm not reasoning like a repubblican ("on that day God wept" gee Hicks still cracks me up) i'm realizing so many things at the same time, i'm sober and it hurts...my body is imploring me to stop doing this to myself, stop thinking so much and go back to the warmth of the bed and obliviousness of deep sleep, as if this is going to stop the horrors in the world.
i'm not against eating meat and i don't want to preach, as i am against preaching.
and pretending eat-meaters to understand our point of view is like asking a Catholic to undestand the legalization of abortion...
i realized today that what makes us human is disobedience, we are the only creature on this marvellous planet that doesn't follow the rules of nature we break every single one of them
and those are the rules that god made when he/she/they created the motherfucking universe...
the first thing we did
was disobey
the allegory of Adam and Eve holds this truth
we disobeyed God, nature, Allah, call him whatever you like he won't answer
I tried yesterday and many times before, the only thing i got was his answering machine that told me he was absent and put me on hold (that is what i got everytime i tried to get a contact, everytime i got into deeper states of meditation or assumed entheogens)
and we keep disobeying these really simple rules that allow life on earth to be in balance.
but i'm happy about one thing
one thing
and that is that nature can hold so much (god created it ad hoc) and when the balance is tipped over a catastrophe just brings nature back one step towards its original equilibrium, and we suffer oh the death of thousands of innocents...the divine flood that cleaned the earth of all beings eccept Noah and the animals is another interesting allegory
humanity is its worst enemy
someday we will be extinguished like the dinosaurs way before us and a new equilibrium will be installed
life is a pendulum
"what comes up must come down" and eventually what went down will come up again.
it's true what one of the signatures around here say
"you can't change reality 'cause reality is change"
the only thing we can do is make our reality better for us and the ones around us
and if someone doesn't want to see the good intent we bring he has the freedom to refuse it and we can move on with and/or without them
VerusDeus
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You make a lot of sense brugmansia(especially the comment about increasing dosages 
) But I don't think the tiger-ripping-zebras-to-shreds is relevant to this discussion, because a tiger slaughters zebras, only when he is hungry. While we keep cows in unnatural circumstances and slaughter them to provide us unnecesariry food. And the tiger does the slaughtering himself, we let butchers do all the dirty work(which they might even enjoy :shock: ).
The tiger doesn't disturb nature's balance, yet we do...
Peace
) But I don't think the tiger-ripping-zebras-to-shreds is relevant to this discussion, because a tiger slaughters zebras, only when he is hungry. While we keep cows in unnatural circumstances and slaughter them to provide us unnecesariry food. And the tiger does the slaughtering himself, we let butchers do all the dirty work(which they might even enjoy :shock: ). The tiger doesn't disturb nature's balance, yet we do...
Peace
Brugmansia
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VerusDeus a dit:
That's why I prefer the old farms as we used to had back in days instead of mass factories. Just a pleasant life for them with space and normal posture, sufficient water & food. A sudden transfer from life to death with no suffering. And castration should be limited and practised under complete anaesthic.
We need to accept a high price for meat in the name of animals. Myself I'm not behind a complete ban.
VerusDeus a dit:
And you shouldn't be suprised when they even get a boner of that. :\
VerusDeus a dit:
That's a statement I have never heard yet, but you earn credit for it. :thumbsup:
Forkbender
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The human body is not made to digest meat. Look at the teeth for example. Have you guys ever tried to process raw meat? We can eat it only because it is cooked. The digestion in the stomach takes a lot of time compared to vegetables as well (several (3+) hours instead of half an hour to an hour and a half), which uses up a lot of energy in the process, leaving you with less energy for proper brain-functioning. I noticed it when I became a vegetarian: my mind became clearer and I could sense my body's real needs instead of my projected wants. I'm not saying that everybody should at once become a vegetarian or vegan, but I do say that I have found many benefits.
