Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

Le forum des amateurs de drogues et des explorateurs de l'esprit

Why are psychedelics so two sided?

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion Kai
  • Date de début Date de début

Kai

Glandeuse Pinéale
Inscrit
4/6/09
Messages
112
From what I've experienced and read psychedelics are very... "two sided". You can go insane OR you can realize universal truths and become more enlightened? Why?

It seems that more of the recreational user are the ones that fall to insanity and the intellectual ones that fall to enlightenment.
 
Different people different set and setting. Different outcome of the trip.
 
Abuse can lead to very bad things.. as with the abuse of every other substance know to Man anyway..

Respect, awareness, and moderation will lead to great things.. as it would with any other aspect of your life.

That's just my view on it :)
 
Psychedelics are just chemical substances, it's man (determined by DNA or its environment) that reacts to them in a two-sided way to them. still it's a good question to try to understand why this happens.
 
You can go insane OR you can realize universal truths and become more enlightened? Why?
Read 'LSD Psychotherapy' by Stan Grof, and you'll understand. No one has answered your question better than him. I could try to answer the question in my own words, but it's such a vast subject matter, I would have to write pages to merely cover the basics, and I don't really have time for that. I would love to, but duty calls...
 
i think its because psychedelics are very powerful
and things with power need to be respected
fire, guns, superpowers, knowledge
they can do alot of help or alot of hurt
 
Our mind has a dualistic setting? And if one uses psychedelics he get`s aware of the things he normally won`t notice.... I don't know, just a guess.
 
Somehow it makes you unstable. Thoughts that would normally mildly influence you can now really upset you or make you feel wonderful. That's probably why it could be a good therapeutic asset. It gets to the dark little thoughts and feelings inside you and zooms in. (or the bright little thoughts).
 
The following passages come from LSD Psychotherapy, by Stan Grof. The four Basic Perinatal Matrices refer to our experiences in the womb, namely (1) blissful floating in the mothers womb, (2) the first contractions and related chemical changes, (3) being pushed through the birth canal, which is painful and feels like dying, and (4) actual birth itself.

"The changes caused by activation of different levels of COEX [Compressed Experience] systems are usually not very dramatic and stay within the range of various neurotic and psychosomatic manifestations, unless the activated layer is from very early childhood and/or its emotional charge is excessive. When an important COEX system is activated and remains unresolved, the subject experiences in the post-session period an intensification of the clinical symptoms related to this system and perceives the environment with specific distortions reflecting its content. In addition, he or she may manifest a tendency to exteriorize the general theme of the system, or certain specific characteristics of one of its layers, in the treatment situation and in various aspects of everyday life."

"If the subject is under a strong influence from one of these matrices at the time that the pharmacological action of the drug is wearing off, he or she can experience its influence in a mitigated form for days, weeks or even months. If a deep level of a negative matrix is activated, the individual difficulties following the session can reach psychotic proportions. The consequences are quite distinct and characteristic for each of the perinatal matrices."

"When the termination period of an LSD session is governed by BPM [Basic Perinatal Matrix] II and the subject stabilizes under its influence, the post-session interval is characterized by deep depression. Under these circumstances, individuals are vexed by various highly unpleasant feelings, thoughts, and physical sensations. They have access only to unpleasant memories and cannot see any positive elements in their entire life history. Guilt, inferiority, and shame seem to dominate their thinking about the past. Their present life appears unbearable and fraught with problems that have no solution; they do not have any perspective on anything, and the future looks equally hopeless. Life is devoid of any meaning, and there is an absolute inability to enjoy anything. The world is perceived as threatening, ominous, oppressive and without colors. Suicidal ideation is not uncommon in this situation; it typically has the form of a wish to fall asleep or be unconscious, forget everything, and never wake up again."

"Stabilization of an LSD session under the dominance of BPM III results in feelings of intense aggressive tension, frequently associated with strong but vague apprehension and anticipation of a catastrophe."

"Subjects whose LSD session terminates under the influence of BPM IV present a very different picture. The most remarkable aspect of this state is a dramatic alleviation or even disappearance of previous psychopathological symptoms, and a decrease of emotional problems of all kinds. Individuals feel that they have left the past behind and are now capable of starting an entirely new chapter in their lives. Exhilerating feelings of freedom from anxiety, depression and guilt are associated with deep physical relaxation and a sense of perfect functioning of all physiological processes. Life appears simple and exciting, and the individual has the feeling of unusual sensory richness and intense joy."

"As far as BPM I is concerned, the individual can stabilize under the influence of its positive or negative aspects. In the former case, the postsession interval resembles the one described for BPM IV. However, all the feelings involved are much deeper and are experienced in a religious or mystical framework. Subjects see new dimensions in the world and in the universe, have strong feelings of being an integral part of creation, and tend to regard ordinary things and activities in everyday life - such as eating, walks in nature, playing with children, or sexual intercourse - as manifestations of the divine. The experience of cosmic unity has an unusual therapeutic potential and can have lasting beneficial consequences for the individual."

"If the subject remains after an LSD session under the influence of the negative aspects of BPM I or negative transpersonal matrices, he or she experiences various forms and degrees of emotional and physical distress associated with conceptual confusion. These difficulties are typically interpreted in a metaphysical framework - in spiritual, occult, mystical, or religious terms. These unpleasant conditions are attributed to the adverse forces of destiny, "bad karma", malefic astrological or cosmobiological influences, or various evil spiritual entities. In extreme cases this condition can reach psychotic proportions. After the individual works through and integrates the experience, he or she assumes a more tentative and metaphorical approach to such extreme interpretations."

"The recurrences of LSD-like states days, weeks, or even months after the actual administration of the drug has stirred much publicity and deserves special attention in this context. Careful study of the psychodynamics of the LSD reaction over many years has convinced me that episodes, popularly known as "flashbacks," have a very similar basis to the prolonged reactions and psychotic breaks immediately following the sessions. The difference is that in this case the defense mechanisms are strong enough to cover up the activated and unresolved material in the termination period. The experience appears to be completed, but this is true only on the surface; the result is a very precarious dynamic balance between the unconscious forces and the psychological resistance against them. As time passes, any number of circumstances can disturb this problematic equilibrium, and the individual starts consciously experiencing the unfinished gestalt. Since it is a continuation of a process that started during the LSD experience, the uninformed subject will usually see it as an insidious, belated attack of the drug, rather than as a manifestation of his or her unconscious."



To read more passages from the book, specifically dealing with the role of the sitter(s) in facilitating the optimal conditions for the termination period (usually 5 to 6 hours after ingestion), see pages 1 and 6 of this thread.

If you haven't already, please vote in the What was your birth like? poll.
 
The difference between genious and madness is only measured by success.

Insanity is only the inability go cope morally with genious...
 
Subjectively speaking, enlightment = what one's subjective mind erects as a definite belief after a blank objective choice, made disconnected from any non-autonomous influence.

If one's subjective mind doesn't implementate a definite personal belief over time, the doubt about what to believe can become unbearable and that's the point when mind-expansion is more of a torture than a path to a choice for salvation.

Though in the beginning, there's a chance that the high overpowers any capacity to think, which is also a process to pay attention to if one starts.
 
I believe it is all in intent.
 
Hi Kai -

Kai a dit:
From what I've experienced and read psychedelics are very... "two sided". You can go insane OR you can realize universal truths and become more enlightened?

I think it likely (as with most people) that the info that's led you to ask such a query emerges from a non-experiential domain, i.e., people lacking qualifications of internal journeying, or a lack of subjective vision on their behalf. There's nothing wrong with that, but people without contextual ability should at least quantify this fact. (it'd be a bit like me saying I know about the top of Everest when I've only read about it, or seen some dood's broken arm as a result of a climbing accident, if y' get mi drift).

Psychedelics aren't simply 2-sided - their multifaceted. And the notion of 'insanity' is itself very destructive, hugely limiting and (quite frankly) is itself 'insane.' Sanity is based on a judegment of social mores and activities; hence the reason why all psychiatric books pre-1980 tell University students how, historically, we've realised that shamans are insane, schizo, or round-the-bend in one way or another - based on a Western cultural tradition that isolates and divides human psychology and actions into rigid systems of propoganda that ridicules and dismisses transpersonal phenomena.

Insanity is a journey, not a state of identity, nor a pathological form. It is a journey - full stop. At times a potent, terrifying and confusion arena for the consciousness wandering its domains - but a journey nonetheless.

Some people here might accuse me of being of "this school" or "that school" for saying this, but check out Thomas Szasz's Manufacture of Madness or his Myth of Mental Illness, along with Roger Walsh's fine tome, The Spirit of Shamanism (I think it's been reprinted under another 'shamanism' title) which lucidly isolates this notion of psychedelic and cultural insanity. There's plenty more reading material like this, but I find they're good starters on this issue.

All the best - Paulus Megalithicus
 
Well Caduceus you should be getting paid for this. I finished your post and said "Wow I gotta buy that". That's better advertising than most companies can do!

That said Kai, some seriously deep questions you've had lately. Are you a psychology student?
 
Hi again Kai -

...Just a thought, as I see some others are reading Stanislav Grof's stuff. Get hold of a copy of Grof's Spiritual Emergency? Tis a damn good collection of papers on psychic-crisis states, with Stan as the Ed.
 
Hmm even though Grof seems to have some insight, he thinks bad karma is an adverse force of destiny, while it's juste a genetic memory affecting epigenetics and quantum integrity...

Well I admit they did not have the advanced science to back it up then, but I find this remark quite primitive and judgemental of the eastern philosophies, it even denotes a certain arrogance.

To me psychedelics are 5 sided, all 7 drug archetypes are... go figure :)
 
Just increase your dose, asking any language code really only is a magnetic force of an insert more than a natural reboot.
 
Hi Ahuaeynjxs -

Ahuaeynjxs a dit:
Hmm even though Grof seems to have some insight, he thinks bad karma is an adverse force of destiny, while it's juste a genetic memory affecting epigenetics and quantum integrity...

Might be an idea to do 300 mushrooms and move onto that - or rather, its antithesis! :)

Ahuaeynjxs a dit:
Well I admit they did not have the advanced science to back it up then, but I find this remark quite primitive and judgemental of the eastern philosophies, it even denotes a certain arrogance.

Which "eastern philosophies" are you thinking of here?

Cheers - Paul
 
Well... as I said in the other thread, to me they are hammers, so a hammer has 4 sides, and the handle which is us (tetrahedron). The 4 sides denote consciousness of the cube which is ³ but is 6 sided into 4 triangular apexes... the logical suite, but not to a human, rather to a non-ensouled golem which can well look human to most. But since it was not conscious as it happened, we were forced to evolve with the (ET forces) which is a deep methaphor for what is alien to us, the cube.

so : (4+6)³ = 1000 = 1 + infinity¹ = 6x6x6 = 216 = 9 + 4 = 13 ... you can see it in many ways this is simply to illustrate some examples.

Thats where the trapezoid came to signify illuminati globalism, since the holy trinity of 3 is symbolised by the triangle. By splitting it in two (trapezoid + triangle of the upper initiates) we reveal that at the source, illuminati and church are the same force in civilisation.

the possibilities seem endless... another symbolism for this antagonising diagonal of the third dimention is .999 *periodical*

In truth, the sucessor to the tetrahedron should be the octahedron which is two gizeh pyramids with bases together, which is also the brightest shape for a diamond mathematically speaking. But we changed the shape of the universe seemingly, because it now all holds together with a cube impostor, the diagonal is used to repent the cube into the dodeca ; which comes to complexify our whole science. This obvious miracle makes it that we now barely know 10% of sciences we tought we had explored before, and we can expect to be amazed by how our biology will react to this mental cataclysm.

The similitude of perfection in these numbers creates a fascination in the human mind which usually translates into matricial relations to the "world", which means the consciousness is not perfect ever, thus it has many holes we would term unconsciousness, in which demons (unconscious magnetic vortices) unfold depending on their nature and integration (by the user) into electrical frequencies. You can see that by pitting an electronic rythm against a human mind (perfect electric shape against round magnetism imperfection), this diagonal is erected almost instantly and serves as an idol pillar... and in mass where none of the humans developed the ability to "re-pent" the cube into the dodeca in order to "nest" the paroxism into a self-fulfilling tragedy and bliss.

This is how we have been ruled up to now, divide to conquer. By hiding simple geometrical and mathematical keys into two opposing factions (read church and illuminati) the rulers of the world have effectively created subconscious repulsion for any of the concepts behind those conscious forces.

:lol: @ myself
 
Retour
Haut