What is Ego-death ???

[buffachino]

What is reality but an arbitrarily invariable hallucination?

External stimuli are hallucinatory.
Simply by the fact that they are deemed external.

 

[Brugmansia]

Bot.32 made some very well verbal inputs which are the phrases which I couldn't find myself for the experiences I had.

I finally can see how you could see the ego as a movement, a willful act out of fear or hate or pain, but a movement nevertheless that can be stopped by turning it on itself.

But instinctively to me, it feels like the ego is neccesary to remind my duty within the evolution which is using my reproductive system to pass my genes. Feeding myself and health assurance.

It's not like the ego is the devil which we are born with and needs to be ereased out of our consciousness.

It's just a very controversial movement that we should learn to control and only let go to get our needs, not our greed.

 

[Horrigan]

Ego death is when ego stops fighting against himself.
It's complete ego acceptation, then logical sublimation (as a consequence).

EGO DEATH IS WHEN YOU STOP THINKING IN WORDS

Damn right !

 

[Forkbender]

Forkbender, man you really hate ago, right ?

Au contraire, my friend, au contraire. The ego is beautiful, but it turns into hell on earth if you identify with it.

 

[Forkbender]

But instinctively to me, it feels like the ego is neccesary to remind my duty within the evolution which is using my reproductive system to pass my genes. Feeding myself and health assurance.

It's not like the ego is the devil which we are born with and needs to be ereased out of our consciousness.

It's just a very controversial movement that we should learn to control and only let go to get our needs, not our greed.

I agree. Though feeding/sustaining yourself can be an act of loving kindness and doesn't necessarily involve ego. I guess it is just a discussion about definitions, but I think that ego starts when one wants more than he needs. On the other hand, ego can diminish your chances of survival just as easily. I see lots of people who have destructive ego-patterns & I see it in myself as well.

 

[Brugmansia]

Thought you were doubting about getting further with your university or going for a more laid back life with 'fun'.

Actually, my best trips with absolute climaxes were after a period with accomplishments which may be considered as 'egoistic'. But the psychedelic experiences taught me how great these accomplishments were and how important they are to the self, rather than the ego. From this middle point, I could expand this positive energy to others.

IMO a laid back life based on keeping your ego constantly small because you're a psychonaut doesn't interact positively with your experiences, on the contrary. They might put you in a more 'depressive' position because the truth is that this world nowadays is egoistic. Take it or leave it.

And if you are not making accomplishments, there'll be nothing left of your inner self, even during moments when the entire ego cover has dissoluted. You'll become vulnerable in every way. That's how I see it.

May I quote Uit je Bol written by Hans Plomp: The essence of psychonautism is being able to say: "Goddamn, the beauty of life is extraordinairy'.

As Plato and Socrates pointed out too that the goal of a human is to have joy and euphoria, and should be obtained with moderation.

 

[Forkbender]

Thought you were doubting about getting further with your university or going for a more laid back life with 'fun'.

That's not how I would put it. I'm thinking about going for a PhD, but I want to do some other stuff first (working/travelling). I definitely don't want a laid back life, I'd get bored in a week or two.

IMO a laid back life based on keeping your ego constantly small because you're a psychonaut doesn't interact positively with your experiences, on the contrary. They might put you in a more 'depressive' position because the truth is that this world nowadays is egoistic. Take it or leave it.

I agree. But I don't think that a small ego is necessarily better (or worse) than a big ego. Ego=ego. A small ego tends to Calimero-ize (they are big and I am small, oooh pity me, pity me!) easily, which is just another form of saying: I am better than the others/I deserve more.

 

[druglessdouglas]

im the least egotistical one here. thats what makes me special

 

[st.bot.32]

Lately I'm thinking this overall issue is not as clear-cut as I thought it was, and that ego-death, ego-loss or whatever we decide to label it is not necessarily such a dramatic event (as in, induced while peaking during a psychedelic experience).

The very act of taking a psychedelic often exaggerates different points of one's personality, even altering the personality. I recently felt this once not on psychedelics but after smoking some hash, it was as if I was becoming someone else, actually being pulled into the experience of being someone else, and felt this fear of letting go to see where the experience would take me. When I finally was able to analyze the fear, it evaporated immediately. I felt as if I had been taken out of my body to a completely different frame of reference.

 

[Forkbender]

Yes, fear is kind of essential. It keeps you inside the comfortable walls of your own ego. Getting over fears (=seeing them as your guardians instead of as your limitation) is a beautiful experience.

I did a firewalk last friday, walked over some hot coals, which was a transformative experience. I felt the fear coming up and building up in the preparation, almost unbearable, but somewhere I still knew I was going to be alright. So I trusted that voice and started seeing my fear as my friend. When I decided to walk there was an intense rush of fear through my body and then it subsided. After reaching the other side I felt calm, turned around, thanked the fire for the insight it gave me into myself and realised I was unburdened. It really helped me realize that I'm just a person and that there are way stronger forces around that can kill me or hurt me badly and be at peace with that. And I'm thankful still.

 

[????????]

:shock: are your feet alright?

 

[Forkbender]

Yes. At first they felt like your hands do when you clap them a bit too long, but this soon faded. I had some minor spots where I had a "kiss" from the fire, but these were gone the next day. Some people get nasty blisters from it, or some burns, but the experience is worth much more than a little discomfort the days after.

 

[Guest]

I did a firewalk last friday, walked over some hot coals, which was a transformative experience.

Awesome!
Where was it held?

 

[buffachino]

helped me realize that I'm just a person and that there are way stronger forces

Maybe the lesson that was presented through your fear is that you elevated fire above yourself.
Remember, fire cant burn you, if you didnt exist to be burned.

 

[Forkbender]

I did a firewalk last friday, walked over some hot coals, which was a transformative experience.

Awesome!
Where was it held?

It was at the 'Eigentijds Festival' near Vierhouten on the Veluwe. The organisation was from Kasteel de Schans, which is located near the border in Belgium and does all kinds of workshops.

 

[Forkbender]

helped me realize that I'm just a person and that there are way stronger forces

Maybe the lesson that was presented through your fear is that you elevated fire above yourself.
Remember, fire cant burn you, if you didnt exist to be burned.

Well, yes, but not so conceptual. It was more like a feeling.

 

[Brugmansia]

Thought you were doubting about getting further with your university or going for a more laid back life with 'fun'.

That's not how I would put it. I'm thinking about going for a PhD, but I want to do some other stuff first (working/travelling). I definitely don't want a laid back life, I'd get bored in a week or two.

I know, but let's say that you got an offer to work for Shell or Exxon at quite a high position with an epic salary. Representing the continent of Africa.

Would you pick that job by knowing that in the center of Africa entire communities are torned, slaughtered while all their oil is being robbed by the company you work for?

Well, yes, but not so conceptual. It was more like a feeling.

Transformative in which way? It's not like you've got to know more about the connection between the nerve cells under your feet and your brains though?

 

[buffachino]

Concepts are just elaborations of feelings.

 

[Klay]

Ego-loss/death is an event where your ego no longer puts a filter over your perception of the world. The ego is what creates the sense of self, the thing that creates the illusion that we are separate from the universe (while we can logically deduce that we aren't, our perception on a lower level of consciousness remains to see reality in this way).
Thus, when we experience ego-loss/death, we are perceiving the universe in a first person view, as opposed to the third person view our ego forced upon us.

Thats how I see it anyway.

 

[Forkbender]

I know, but let's say that you got an offer to work for Shell or Exxon at quite a high position with an epic salary. Representing the continent of Africa.

Would you pick that job by knowing that in the center of Africa entire communities are torned, slaughtered while all their oil is being robbed by the company you work for?

No.
Eventhough I'm probably more willing to give Africans a fair deal, I still think that less worse is bad as well.

Transformative in which way? It's not like you've got to know more about the connection between the nerve cells under your feet and your brains though?

Transformative in that I had some fear within determining a lot of my actions and now I know that fear is just fear and that you don't need to hold back if you trust what you do is okay. The fear is not such an issue anymore.