veganism, vegetarism, consiousness

[forest]

you talk like an amerikan. ok, you're totally right about that this converstation isn't getting me anywhere. i don't buy leather anymore, i don't drink bear anymore (they also use fishbladder at some brands), and don't eat gelatine. but i'm not making myself look perfect, all the time i wasn't even talking about myself. but you're talking like a 10 year old schoolgirl that finds is cruel to eat horse meat, because she ....loves....horses. and at the same time every day eats meat of 10 other kind of animals. very hypocritical

all those cows wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the deary and meat, and by indifiduals becoming vegans, the number of animals could be reduced.

yeah i think i know you, i think i know you better than you do yourself.

 

[forest]

this conversation is getting me somewhere. i love confrontation, and all this confrontation and conflict is making me a happyer person. i chose you for the conflict because you act like a dumb american child, the nice thing is that you allways want to have the last word, wich ensures me that my happyness won't be shortlasting.

 

[Brewmaster]

What a stupid thing to say. If you really knew me, then you'd know I'm getting ready to eat yor cat.

The birds are flying
The birds are screaming
The birds are falling
The birds are shot
I know I hurt them
I know I killed them
But I was hungry
And they're what I've got

Fuck you vegans
And your green ways
Don't care about
Ozone deplete
I am not PC
I eat no veggies
When I am hungry,
I want some meat

Meat's so perfect
Meat's so meaty
Meat's so good to eat.
Slaughter some bacon.
Meat is murder,
The crime that you can eat.
SOLO!!

I like it bloody.
I like it well done.
I even like it
with any sauce
Be it all beef
Or be it poultry
Of all the food groups
Meat is the boss.

Meat's so perfect
Meat's so meaty
Meat's so good to eat.
Slaughter some bacon.
Meat is murder,
The crime that you can eat.

 

[Brewmaster]

Cold beer and a strange cigarette
Getting you high getting you wet
Falling in love falling out of debt
Straight gay black or white
Strutting in the dark hiding in the light
Doing it wrong doing it right just doing it

You got your life on the one hand
Mine in the other
I got the right we all got the right

One man's meat is the other man's lousy luck
One man's meat is someone's empty well
One man's meat is some guy's aching butt
One man's meat is another man's living hell

Short fat thick or thin
Take it in the gut take it on the chin
Living in glory living in sin
Hard day's work going down slow
Riding the road where the greengrass grows
Watching in die what d'you know
Watch it

You got your life on the one hand
Mine in the other
I got the right

One man's meat is the other man's lousy luck
One man's meat is someone's empty well
One man's meat is some guy's aching butt
One man's meat is another man's living hell

~Deep Purple

 

[Brewmaster]

One last thing and I'm out. Unless you're growing all your own vegetables, you're just as guilty of murder as I am.

http://web.archive.org/web/200411070845 ... vegan.html

 

[alice]

This subject always causes commotion.
Amazing.
It will change some day, either that or we're all going to hell... and i don't mean the christian hell, i mean we're all going to die in a very horrible way if mankind doesn't wise up... it's not the problem of the one or another meat eater, it's the problem of economy, ignorance, bad government.. discusting world leaders.
AND GUYS! NO MORE NAME CALLING, OR THIS THREAD MIGHT BE BANNED. RESPECT ONE ANOTHER PLEASE.

Love and respect to all animals on earth!

Alice

 

[alice]

... and a severe problem of animal abuse, of course!

 

[tryptonaut]

Can I, being a convinced part-time vegetarian, try to be diplomatic between the convinced vegetarian and the convinced meat eater?

For me it's never been a moral issue, we're part of the food chain (thankfully at the top), we have pointed teeth for eating meat, it's the way we were designed.

That is totally true when the animals we eat can live a good life and are being treated well until they die. I ate a lot of meat during the christmas holidays because I knew it was bought from organic farmers who care about how they treat their animals.
However most meat today is produced without consciousness, the animals are being treated like lifeless things. Cows and pigs are being transported through Europe on trucks for days without food or water - like 10% of them die during the transport but that is still cheaper than giving them food and water so why care? Pigs and cows have to stand on metal grids in metal cages with not enough space to even turn around. If you look into the eyes of these animals then all you see is panic and psychosis. Can you really eat their meat with a clear conscience?

 

[Guest]

Well, I worked in a farm a few months ago, kinda earned a permit to eat meat when I was told to decapitate some ducks... Earned it in blood, didn't felt especially good, but at least I was feeling less a hypocrite after this...

 

[alice]

yeah, i'm thinking i can eat an animal if i could kill it myself. so, no cows for me, no chicken, no rabit, love them all, they're all too cute. i would fish though...

alice

 

[Brugmansia]

I'm not a vegatarian because I believe we humans are organisms just as tigers and other animals. A tiger just takes a zebra and rips him to shreds and fills his stomach with it.

In fact, we do the same as organisms, but we're further in the evolution and developed a level of intelligence that allows us to get our meat ready in the supermarket for consumption with no hunting. But the crave for the taste is similar as with every organism.

I feel that the vitamine B12 and iron and other components is something that's neccesary to get the optimal processes in my body. Otherwise there's gonna be a decrease in some functions after a long period of time.

Though I don't eat pigmeat at all and never will.

I prefer good quality meat in moderation.

 

[alice]

yeah brugmansia i get your point.
i heard though that us humans are not really ment to eat and digest meat, because our intestines are long, we don't get rid of the whole thing, whereas tigers and lions have short intestines, and so they do. anyway, moderation is acceptable, i would say. i'm proud of the people who are vegan, and i accept the people who are moderate. still would be interesting if we could actually just eat what we killed, it would change a lot of things :wink:

alice

 

[Pazusu]

still would be interesting if we could actually just eat what we killed, it would change a lot of things :wink:

alice

I'd be eating only flies, ants and musquitos. :wink:

The reason why you find it accepteable to eat fish (I read that in one of your previous postings), is because a fish looks the least the same way as we look. A lot of animals look cuddly, so you instinctively find you should protect this animal. But as soon as it is a shark, a toad, a snail or bacteria, you wouldn't care. I don't find that a founded reason for not eating meat.

The most important reason for me to eat less meat is the scale we are keeping cattle in industrial halls and killing them by hundreds a day, like it is some kind of concentration camp. Butchers killing ten thousends of cows a year become numb, and lost every respect for an animal. They don't care if a cow breaks a leg in her panic, before she gets killed. Or the way chickens are being stuffed into plastic boxes, breaking wings and legs, because the production deadline of tenthouseds chickens has to be made. I don't want to eat meat that's produced this way. The government has to forbid farmers to produce meat this way.

Of one cow a normal person can eat 10 years. That's why I usually choose to eat beef (from a biological butcher).
So I don't agree killing an animal is disrespectfull to life, but the way one kills an animal is.

 

[Guest]

But as soon as it is a shark, a toad, a snail or bacteria, you wouldn't care.

Trust me, I WOULD care...

 

[alice]

yeah Pazusu, 100% with you about the industry bullshit.

alice

 

[sychopk]

I believe that each person has the right to live as he pleases and that includes eating. The thing I didn't understand was the argument at the begining of the thread about if people were all vegetarians there would be more food for other people in the world.

Right now there is more than enough food to go around politics, comercialism, etc. is why most of it doesn't get where it should. It is easy to blame poverty, hunger, etc. on something big and generic like politics and comercialism, I believe the true problem is peoples view on life. At least where I live the general notion is if you are at the bottom it's your fault because there are many "oportunities" for you to achieve your "dreams". I don't agree but I believe this is the cause for a lot of problems, people don't care.

Much respect towards vegetarians and thank you for giving me more meat to eat :wink: