veganism, vegetarism, consiousness

[petfles]

http://www.volkskrant.nl/static/video/ombouw.html?clipID=3097&categoryID=300
-->Video of cows being mistreated in the netherlands :?

 

[petfles]

Parts of our brain can't realize humanity can be this evil (or ten times more) I remember reading this book from Jung/schopenhauer, he writes about realizing all the suffering in this world, even in his garden the suffering was overwhelming..
Only the 'aesthetic encounter with The Beautiful' can bring salvation...
My thinking 'problem' starts there. Whatever we do, eat or maybe even dream has consequences. Somewhere there will be suffering because of your actions.
Is salvation, doing right, not just another form of ignorance? We can have the illusion to do good, forgetting or transforming all we do wrong...

Trying to do better is the never ending story it seems..

 

[Forkbender]

There are many arguments against eating meat, but most meateaters will not be convinced by them. They usually think: "hey, I'm living my life now in a way that I know and that works for me, why should I change?" And that argument is perfectly solid, be it a bit egoistic.
How I did it: I started just by trying to not eat meat for some time and liked the result. This was 5 years ago and I have only eaten fish on about three or four occasions ever since. I feel healthier, lost some excess weight, am more clear in the head and feel more in touch with my food as I take special care to what I eat.
Stopping to eat meat is a perfect way (because it can be easily done) to proof to yourself that your attachment to the world and to old habits can be broken without damage. In this spirit I have also fasted on several occasions the last two years and this helped me to increase my awareness about how my body responds to what it puts inside itself. I used to live very unhealthy, but by becoming aware of all this, I started treating my body with the respect it deserves and started to recognize its needs. Now I'm in the best shape of my life.
I'm not claiming vegetarianism or veganism is the one solution to all the problems in the world (though it might rule out hunger in asia, africa and south-america, which is a huge step). It is just something to consider for yourself. It is not such a big step as most people think and in fact it is quite easy to maintain.

 

[forest]

WAT WE NATUURLIJK AL WISTEN...;

LONDEN - Kinderen met een hoog IQ hebben een grotere kans om later vegetariër te worden dan die met een lage intelligentie. Dat blijkt uit een vrijdag gepubliceerd Brits onderzoek onder ruim 8000 mannen en vrouwen van dertig jaar oud.

Van alle deelnemers werd op tienjarige leeftijd de intelligentie gemeten. Hoe hoger het IQ, hoe groter de kans dat ze er op latere leeftijd voor kozen geen vlees meer te eten. Bij een stijging van de IQ-score met vijftien punten, steeg de kans dat iemand vegetariër is met 38 procent.

De resultaten komen overeen met eerdere onderzoeken die uitwezen dat intelligente mensen vaker gezonder eten

 

[Brewmaster]

I agree with Forkbender, when I stop eating meat and make a conscious effort to eat only unprocessed foods; I feel a whole hell of a lot healthier. Unfortunately, I fucking love meat. Steak, fish, chicken, pork, whatever you got, I'll grill it and eat it. For me it's never been a moral issue, we're part of the food chain (thankfully at the top), we have pointed teeth for eating meat, it's the way we were designed. My wife, on the other hand has been veg for 4 or 5 years now, for her it started out as a health thing but now she thinks it's cruel to eat meat. Hypocrite.

As far as saving food for the rest of the world, that's just not the way it works. All those millions of cows that are grazing land in South America which used to be rainforest; they're all owned by giant companies like McDonalds, grocery store chains and other corporations that could give a fuck less who's starving in the world. If everyone in the U.S. refrained from eating meat for a whole week (imagine that) there still would be no food for poorer countries, there would just be a lot of spoiled, rotten meat.

"It's okay to eat fish because they haven't any feelings" ~Kurt Cobain

 

[forest]

it's not entirely true what you just said. in south amerika a lot of rainforests are cut down to cultivate soya for all the cows and animals in the western country's. and because my last post was in dutch you couldn't read it but it was about a research that said that with people who have a higher IQ there is a much bigger chance they will become vegetarian. and how do you feel about the animal suffering? i think your just lazy

 

[forest]

.....and ignorand

 

[Brewmaster]

Ignorant.....I'm ignoranT.


Dude, I'm not about animals suffering, I love all animals, and if it were up to me I'd be living on a farm where all the meat I ate comes from cows that fucking died of old age because I could never kill one myself. Unfortunately, that's just not feasibly possible and I, like most everyone else, has to buy it from the store. In my defense, I buy all my meat from the natural, healthfood store where all the chicken is grain fed and free range and all the meat is hormone and additive free, and is killed humanely. I'm not lazy, I could stop eating meat if I wanted, but guess what? I DONT!!!

And I think I have a fairly high IQ, thank you very much. Not because I eat my vegetables, but because I went to college for 6 years and continue to study. I'm also smart enough to know that I'm not going to change anyone's mind by insulting them.

 

[forest]

so why don't you want to stop eating meat?
i think people who stop themselves from making a logical, ethical change in they're lives, that can contribute to they're health, and can contribute to changing the amount of suffering in the world, are lazy. because most of the time the reason of not making the change is that the change will cost too much energy, because it's easy to be careless and ignorant, but it costs a lot of energy to care about things and PUT THAT IN PRACTICE.
the animals on the organic farms never get old, and are inprisoned, even though it's organic.
and woh smart is it to think that you'd wish you would live on a farm so you could not eat meat because you would never kill an animal, and now it's easy, you just buy it in the shop, and let other people do it for you, but actiually it's not something you stand for because in real life you couldn't do it.

you might be smart but weather you're wise i doubt it...

 

[forest]

college doesn't always make someone smart, it will make you cultivated and adapted


(and it can make you talk smoothly, because that's something you do, but so can little children)

 

[forest]

even with organic deary (milk), the lambs or whatever baby animals, are taken away after birth. would you like it if your girl got pregnand and some other life form takes her child away and squeezes milk out of her tits every day?
i think you would have a problem with that, dear animal-lover

 

[Brewmaster]

"i think people who stop themselves from making a logical, ethical change in they're lives, that can contribute to they're health, and can contribute to changing the amount of suffering in the world, are lazy. "

It's only a logical ethical decision if that's what you believe in, and I don't. Fuck cows, they're dumb and they taste good. Animals eat other animals homey, it's how the world works. It's the cycle of life. Cows don't live forever, they have to die eventually, why not eat them. They are grown and raised to be food, it's not like we're snatching hundreds of thousands of cows everyday out of the wild and taking them away from their families. We call ourselves human, but we are in fact animals of this planet. It is in our genes to be meat eaters, it's how we're programmed.

Like I said, for me there is no "moral" or "ethical" issue because I believe that animals were meant to be eaten. It is a HEALTH issue, which is why I eat a lot less meat than I used to. There are a lot more important animals that you should be worrying about than the ones I put on my dinner table.


I volunteer quite a bit of my time to the World Wildlife Fund which works to save endangered species. In early summer, I also live at the beach and volunteer with the National Marine Recue Association which fights to put stronger limits on fishing and whaling as well as working to protect endangered/ jeopardized ocean species. I am a lot more concerned with the well-being of animals that are about to be erased from the face of the earth than the ones we raise to feed ourselves. Worry about the fact that the polar bears are about to be listed as endangered or the fact that YOU will never see a Dodo bird. Think about what you can do to make a difference as opposed to trying to change people's opinion on what is okay to have for dinner.

FUCK!

 

[forest]

okay, so let's make farms of thousands of animals and torture and kill them, sure that's fine!
but when a specie in the wild is about to get endangered it's something to be worried about.

that's because the extinction of an animal specie makes a difference in the ecosistem, what eventiually will be bad for us humans.

so the conclusion is that you are a low-life, careless, ignorant, lazy, selfish, hipocritical, twisted FUCK!

 

[Brewmaster]

And you're obviously a very cranky Christian extremist, who will accept no one else's view but their own.

Good day, sir.

 

[forest]

i'm not cranky, and not christian, i wouldn't call myself an extremist, but some people would, i'm just very passionate about some things and am merciless to foolish children who have a lack of love for the truth

 

[Brewmaster]

The TRUTH, you sniveling twat, is that you're passionate about a meaningless point. Hundreds of countries rely on the industry to fuel their economy and so it's not going to stop, and as I said earlier, you're not going to change anyones views by being a conceited, whiny, name-calling little brat.

Why don't you try reading back to yourself, the statement you opened this thread with.

Then shut the fuck up.

 

[forest]

i know very well what i said in my first post, but i'm not trying to make you vegetarian or vegan, or convince you that you should. all i'm trying is to make you realize what you say doesn't make sense. make you realize what you do, not what you should do. if people say; sure, i'm selfish and i don't care about animals. than they speak truth.

but someone who says; I LOVE ALL ANIMALS, and let's them be killed for him every day, and then comes with; ''look what i do for animals, this and that!'', what are all only things that benefit the human survival.
do you actiually know what love is, did you mother give it to you?

actiually i think the way you talk is very much like a christian, someone who gives donations so he won't end up in hell, making him look generous. a hypocritical christian bastard

 

[petfles]

Guys calm down.
It is like i said before, every action causes suffering.
It hurts me to think about animals dying for meat without ever seeing daylight. Having felt love and friendship :x
My opinion is that everybody thinks that way, deep down, because we are programmed to guide this planet, not to eat meat ! I have to agree with forest it is a weak statement to say we do as we do because it is our nature.. :? That is like saying, "i can't help myself."
But nobody's perfect, eating meat is just one imperfection.

 

[Brewmaster]

Do you wear leather? on your shoes, your shoe laces, your watch, your jacket?

I suppose you sweep the ground in front of you before you walk on it so that you don't step on any bugs. I'm sure you wear a doctor's mask all day to keep any microscopic organisms from entering your lungs. And I bet you don't drink beer either because as you know, yeast is an animal. An animal that dies to give us alcohol. But that's not you.

Do you ever eat jello, pudding or anything with gelatin in it because as you know, gelatin comes from animals.


Don't pretend like you know me son, I do a lot more than give donations. I've done a lot more than I'm sure you've ever done to save an animal, aside from getting on the internet and bitching like a 12 year old school girl. I've spent entire summers cleaning spilled oil off of birds, untangling animals from discarded fishing nets, patrolling beaches to keep tourists from fucking with turtle nests and disturbing their eggs. I had a gun held to my face the time we stopped a fishing boat that was illegally hunting marlins.

Protecting endangered species isn't about protecting humans you fucking idiot, how big of an affect do you think the polar bears have on you and me? Answer: not much. It's about having respect for animals that have been here thousands, if not millions of years before us, and trying to keep the planet as much the same as possible. I love animals but I dont care about the individual feelings of every little cow. Call me an ass hole, I just don't. There's much bigger things to worry about. MUCH BIGGER THINGS!! If you have a problem eating meat=DONT. But don't come across all holier-than-thou, I'm so fucking perfect and expect to sway anbody's opinion.

In all this time, all you've managed to do is piss me off when you could be doing something worthwhile to further your cause. Quit bitching to me and start a petition to your government to make the killing procedure of cattle, more humane. See about starting a farmer's market, write letters, do something. But sitting here and typing your silly little messages to me is obviously getting you nowhere.

 

[Brewmaster]

Eating meat is only an imperfection if you believe it is, and again, I don't. I view myself like any other animal, we're all part of an environment, an ecosystem, a food chain, etc. And right now the one we fit into is working quite nicely.

What would happen if tomorrow, everyone stopped eating beef. Would you take care of all those cows. NO, and neither would their former owners. They would be left to starve, die and go to waste. Wouldn't that be lovely.

Personally, I would go veggie right this second if it meant that all the beef in this country would be sent to a starving African country, but it's not so I have no reason to.