Sums up why I almost left the forum.

[cockknocker]

So what youre saying is you almost left the forum because some people believe in spiritual stuff?

If that is what youre saying, then thats pretty stupid.

 

[HeartCore]

Sorry to the spiritualists, which is most of you on the forum. But you gotta get both points of view right?

You cannot know everything period.

I value science but that does not take one yota away from the life-altering mystical experiences I've had.

Nobody without experience with shamanic use of psychoactives, is mentally equiped to make assumptions about shamanism and shove it together with paganism and what have you.

If something sounds to strange to be true, it probably is.

The simplest explanation, is often correct.


A lot of sense is made in 'Enteogens and the future of religion' in the chapter by Albert Hofmann 'Natural science and the Mystical World View'.

Here's a little personal anekdote:

Years ago I lived at a friends house and we went out drinking. On the way back we met a muslim guy and we engaged into conversation about religion. The next morning my friend could not find his keyring. 'Fucking guy', he says, 'stole my fucking keys'. A thought came to my mind: 'shamans can find back lost keys' and I closed my eyes and asked 'where are his keys'. The next moment I stand up, look my friend in the eye while walking up to the other side of the room, bent to reach under the closet to pick up his keys which where there out of sight.

He looked at me with complete disbelieve, 'how the fuck?' Out of nowhere I replied, 'well we where so drunk last night when we came home, you past out right away in that corner while I was still in conversation with our friend. I must have seen fall your keys out of your pocket and slip them under the closet, unconsiously.

He gave me a long lookg and said ' you are crazy'.

In any case, he had his keys back and an innocent guy didn't get beat up for something he didn't do. And that's what it is, a pragmatic view of life, not excluding science or rationality, but complementing it with something bigger which I bet 99% of visitors to this form know exists, and have experienced in some form or another.

If you say: it's all science, your just as much at a loss as someone who says it's all spirituality.

My 2 cents.

 

[magickmumu]

I like to stay on the middle of the road with this.
I value science, but I don't think it's explaining everything.


I keep my mind open.

 

[Space-is-the-Place]

Sorry to the spiritualists, which is most of you on the forum. But you gotta get both points of view right?

You cannot know everything period.
.......
If you say: it's all science, your just as much at a loss as someone who says it's all spirituality.

I totally agree with Heartcore and I guess this is what I was trying to say...

I don't believe that God exists, I know that God exists But I still don't get the point

... Same deal.

I almost left the forum, because I thought you were all congregating to circle-jerk each other as an agency

This says more about you dan it does about us

 

[Mr.Smith]

if you want to put this thread into context, re-read all of IJC's posts

 

[magickmumu]

Sorry but this forum isn't all about IJC.
It's about psychonautism.
I am not going to reread all his post.

 

[Sticki]

I would say, You almost left becuase you cant handle your trip. IJC, You worry me becuase you take psychedelics and its people like you, Who cannot handle thier trips, emotions and revelations that get the rest of us true psychonauts called "Crazy". I'd advise you to stay away from any form of Psychedelic and Dissosociative drug for a long time. Keep at college, Uni, Whatever and dont cross this path again for a long number of years, I dont think your ready just yet. Maybe you never will be?

I also think science will do nothing more then back up and give a better understanding of what religions have taught us for many thousands of years.

Really its getting very boring, The whole who believes in God question.
Does it matter, Who believes in God?

Why cant people believe what they believe and merely discuss what they feel?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I would say, You almost left becuase you cant handle your trip. IJC, You worry me becuase you take psychedelics and its people like you, Who cannot handle thier trips, emotions and revelations that get the rest of us true psychonauts called "Crazy". I'd advise you to stay away from any form of Psychedelic and Dissosociative drug for a long time. Keep at college, Uni, Whatever and dont cross this path again for a long number of years, I dont think your ready just yet. Maybe you never will be?

Thanks for this. I think this post is probably the closest to reality on here.

The problem is with me, I DON'T want to believe in spiritualism, because if it were proved right, there would be so much I would have to rethink and re-scale in my whole mind. It would be too hard.

Imagine, sticki, if you had a revelation where you realized there were no god(s), there are no souls, every person is a figment of your psyche basically, as well as yourself.

Do you think YOU could handle this?
I'm frightened to find my entire mind set, and view of reality wrong, but I suppose that would make me crazy.

 

[Nomada]

The problem is with me, I DON'T want to believe in spiritualism, because if it were proved right, there would be so much I would have to rethink and re-scale in my whole mind. It would be too hard.

I think you will have to re-think eternities nested in eternities nested in glittering butterflies just above the dew of every morning for the rest of the rest of Chachara's garden if you want to survive reason.

You're not the only one. Yes, there is a polyvalent abyss beneath your feet.

Breathe.

 

[Forkbender]

Oooh! The abyss!

 

[greenwizard]

You guys are weird.

I love this quote

 

[Illegalsmile]

Do you think YOU could handle this?
I'm frightened to find my entire mind set, and view of reality wrong, but I suppose that would make me crazy.

you should always be prepared for this
we dont know shit

 

[Affirmatory]

Finding out that something you believed was wrong is always a good thing.

The only thing I know is that I know nothing. - Socrates

What sort of psychedelics are you taking if you haven't found your entire mind set, and view of reality wrong yet?

 

[Sticki]

Thanks for this. I think this post is probably the closest to reality on here.

The problem is with me, I DON'T want to believe in spiritualism, because if it were proved right, there would be so much I would have to rethink and re-scale in my whole mind. It would be too hard.

Imagine, sticki, if you had a revelation where you realized there were no god(s), there are no souls, every person is a figment of your psyche basically, as well as yourself.

Do you think YOU could handle this?
I'm frightened to find my entire mind set, and view of reality wrong, but I suppose that would make me crazy.

Any time mate, I dont mean to be offensive tho and I can understand where you are comming from. Times not right for you mate

 

[tryptonaut]

???

This forum was one of the major influences (thanks a lot to GOD - and I mean the forum member, not the fairy tale entity!) amongst other influences (like Bill Maher) that finally convinced me that I had always been right in not believing in entities, god(s) and fairies, but rather my own mind and imagination.

I have turned from a "there might be entities" new-age-y kind of guya to a sworn atheist and critical mind while always being an avid member of this forum - and now someone calling himself "IJesusChrist" is telling me that we are all a bunch of weird new-age spiritualists? You must be seriously troubled, I think...

 

[overman]

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but IJC's hostility towards other members is kind of puzzling. What I like about this forum is that people share their views without imposing them on others (generally), and so I can't imagine what irritated you so much to paint everyone with one swift brush stroke. Then again I haven't been here for very long.

From the things you usually say I think we share many similar beliefs about science and the nature of reality. Except for one thing: I cannot even begin to claim that I have "figured it out". I thought I did once and I was so afraid to let go of that worldview, despite pretty convincing alternatives, that it made me insecure and confrontational. Now I realize that it was arrogant of me to think that I didn't need to challenge myself to continue seeking knowledge and enlightenment.

Anyway, I think plurality of beliefs is what allows us to gain perspective, and I think we can all benefit from an open mind.

 

[Illegalsmile]

and I think we can all benefit from an open mind.

agreed

 

[IJesusChrist]

Herro.
I'd like to take the original post back. Although I can't. I've taken a few days off the forum to gather some things... not really but anyways.

1. Sorry. I'm jealous if you have the mind to believe in more than what is before you, the physical world.
2. I am a normal person, until the subjects of what is reality and what is beyond reality come up, then I can't really explain where, or who I am, and I try to regain myself. I can never bring up a conversation about this stuff in person, only through the internet.
3. I honestly feel like there isn't much I dont understand in the grand scheme of things. This is retarded of me, but the more people figure out about the world, the smaller it seems to become for me. Even if the universe was an infinitely large factal, stemming and spiraling indefinitely to the limits of our imagination I don't think it would be big enough for me, because it can fit somewhat inside my head.
4. I like putting numbers infront of my points when I'm being serious.
5. I may be somewhat high on kratom have a good weekend guys.

 

[Meduzz]

Having insights (wrong or right ones) in life doesn't change the laws of nature and the fabric of life. It changes your idea of life and your approach to it.

From the point where (relative) certainty goes into speculation, it is YOU that chooses how to fill in that gap, mostly by an extrapolation of the "certainties" you accept.

And it's these very fundaments that can get shattered and drawn into doubt by psychedelics.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Having insights (wrong or right ones) in life doesn't change the laws of nature and the fabric of life. It changes your idea of life and your approach to it.

From the point where (relative) certainty goes into speculation, it is YOU that chooses how to fill in that gap, mostly by an extrapolation of the "certainties" you accept.

And it's these very fundaments that can get shattered and drawn into doubt by psychedelics.

I've realized this - it is my own imagination that puts its negativity to my views. I'm trying to change this, but easier said than done. The past 2 weeks that I have been back home I keep getting re-occuring flashbacks of my earliest depressions. Sick to the stomach, it almost feels like nauseau, but it's not. I'm finding excercise is the best cure... What this really says is this is more of a disorder than some "grand knowledge" that is making me depressed... The combination of what I have learned on the deepest nights accompanied by this gut gross feeling makes for the darkest nights.