Society

[mysticwarrior]

Solutions are there (large scale psychedelic therapy, large scale cultivation of hemp etc.), but they are illegal.

It would surely change our perspective 8) But i have good hopes for the future of drugs. I think it is something they can't stop or hide anymore, people are very well aware of the existince, and ones the lies that where spread seem to be wrong, then something might change. I guess it will be a long process and things can go get worse first, but in the end....

Till then, let us imagine/fantasize about large scale psychedelic therapy sessions

 

[IJesusChrist]

Once we become more spiritual and conscious - then what?

We just sit around, get high, and talk about dimensions we can only get to on substances?

 

[ochho]

Once we become more spiritual and conscious - then what?

We just sit around, get high, and talk about dimensions we can only get to on substances?

Where exactly did you get the implication that becoming more spiritual and conscious means "sitting around, getting high and talking about dimensions we can only get to on substances"?

A more conscious, spiritual society would maybe mean the end of this hyper-consumption materialistic, selfish culture of today. People being more aware of themselves, their actions and their consequences on everything and everyone around them..

Maybe ideals like http://www.thevenusproject.com/ would be feasible?
The end of wars? genocides? famines? destruction of the environment?

Or yes..maybe we should just sit around and get high, sounds easier right.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I hate to say it, but alot of advancement has been due to extreme over use, neglect for the eco-system, and plain ignorance of the bigger picture.

Of course, it also is (most likely) going to cause extinction.

It is going to happen that we become more aware. It is just the course evolution has constantly taken since we split off from chimps. It is also going to get faster and faster, our evolution I mean. Whether directly thrusted by us, or simply because nature follows an exponential change curve.

Or simply because we are nature, we are making the curve...

No we won't all sit around but what is going to change, what has to change is our wastefulness. And it will most likely be 2020, 2030 when everyone has become aware of his/her own impact.

It must be taught from birth, and isn't as effective if taught when the waster is 50 years old or so. They just aren't going to change that much. (I'm saying this with respect to my parents )

Currently the venus project is possible, for those who THINK it is possible. To be honest the bubble over houston texas is retarded. Those people will probably bake in there, and esfixiate. which is what I want to address next:

Carbon burning is shit that should have been done with in the 1950's, even the 1980's when we realized it's real impact. but we aren't going to stop. estimates still say our fleet of cars will be mostly carbon burning until 2020. This is HORRIBLE. This will indeed cause MASS extinction. What we really needed is for GE, and all those other fucks to go bankrupt and disappear. They were great at making the family carbon, eco-killing luxury but now ....

we need to become more "spiritual"

 

[st.bot.32]

"spiritual" also in the sense that drugs seem to lead people away from mindlessly consuming shallow pop culture crap and getting off their arses, doing their own creative stuff, thinking critically about how society functions, etc

you don't need drugs to do the above of course, it just seems that a higher percentage of people in the above categories have done them

 

[HazardousDavis]

-quote- Have you heard of James Lovelock? He is the author of The Vanishing Face of Gaia, a book about global warming and it's consequences.-quote-

I have heard of his name, and the Gaia hypothesis is something I do believe in/appreciate.

I'm not sure if I agree with nuclear energy as a solution etc. But I would like to check that book out.
Essentially, for the world to flourish as it once did, it would take 50 years of humankind to be nonexistent/extinct.
50 years of no humans means that all life on earth would flourish, which I suppose means Gaia/Earth returning to it's natural state.
Now, I'm not an advocate of everyone dropping off the face of the earth, but if 7/8 do go a miss, then I'm pretty sure the earth will 'repair' itself or at least start to.

The food crisis issue etc is definitely one that will be of major importance with regards to a die off, for sure.
_________________
-quote-Once we become more spiritual and conscious - then what?-quote-

Haha, my friend, once you become 'more spiritual' and 'more conscious', all that is left is to get more spiritual and more conscious, as pursuing these takes a lifetime to master, quite literally.

That's the beauty of them, their path to mastery seems something which is an art in itself, and something to be treasured and nurtured through out life.
_________________
-quote-Maybe ideals like http://www.thevenusproject.com/ would be feasible?-quote-

I used to be an advocate of the Venus Project. But then I discovered that it was essentially a model of a technocratic society.
Personally, I don't want a world/life where machines do things for me, and a cybernetic government keeps order.
Now, as an anarchist, that is a completely biased response to your point, I know, but as nice as it sounds, it all seems a bit too utopian/sci-fi/mass-potential fuck up i-robot apocalypse-might-happen, if you get my drift.

If you're interested in other possibilities to the Venus Project, I suggest checking out anti-civilization theories, which are the opposite side of the spectrum, but ones after giving much thought too, are ideas that I personally would like to see happen / try to adhere to.
A good place to start is John Zerzan, you can google him and listen to his radio show online for free, once a week.

-quote-you don't need drugs to do the above of course, it just seems that a higher percentage of people in the above categories have done them -quote-

That's very true and it is of my understanding that drugs are simply a form of catalyst to becoming more spiritual/understanding spirituality, (in the psychonautic sense).
Other ways of achieving these mind-states, from what I have gathered, is via dance, breathing, singing/music, and deep meditation.
_________________

Cheers,

HD

 

[Forkbender]

Consciousness is spreading. And at the rate we are going now, it is probably the only thing that will survive past 2050.

 

[ochho]

Regarding the Venus Project.. Yes, it maybe too much centered on Technology, but it is not the only point they bring forward.
In any case, even our current model of society will get there at some point, every day technology becomes more advanced, and machines do our work..the only difference is that it is slower because we are driven by profits, and not a betterment of our life standards.

The main point that I like about it is the abolition of the monetary system which is based on self-interest, and the adoption of this "resource-based economy" where you are no longer seeking what is best for you, because there is no incentive to do so.. On the other hand, there is incentive to improve the life of you, and your surrounding.. becoming a more collective effort.

Clean energy, safer means of transportations, less waste, a good management of the Earth's resources better education and culture(thus more concsiousness and awareness).. all those are good points.

And about the technocratic viewpoint...Yes, maybe scientists being in control (no politicians..etc) is not the best idea.. but I think that this issue could be resolved by a solution that lies in-between democracy and technocracy? As in, the people are still represented by politicians of some kind, but those politicians have experts and qualified scientists working at their sides..or a similar model maybe.

 

[restin]

Consciousness is spreading. And at the rate we are going now, it is probably the only thing that will survive past 2050.

I am not sure if this really is the current trend actually.

 

[Forkbender]

Me neither, but we have to envision a future, otherwise it will never change.

 

[restin]

We don't need visions, we need actions. There were so many people with visions in the last century, it's not even funny any more. But either no one listens to them or they are just considered as "classics" (and are not listened to either).

 

[Forkbender]

We need both. If we don't know where we are going, we will hit the wall.

 

[restin]

we'll hit the wall many times anyhow.

Mhm. We had to many visions. Robbespierre had visions. Hitler had visions. I'd rather we'd free ourselves from visions - or rather we'd free ourselves from the outer and the inner boundaries. Only then will we be able to live in peace.

Visions are only capturing us. With dedicating ourselves to visions we are getting rid of our freedom to decide, to chose, to change.

Our time is signed with an extremely strong liberation from outer boundaries. On the contrary, our inner chains are extremely strong. It is now the goal of our and the next generations to get rid of these inner chains.

 

[Forkbender]

You'll only get visions if you get rid off the inner chains. And many people have got to open their eyes and wake the fuck up. It isn't strange 'we' hit so many walls, because we'll only survive if we keep our eyes open.

Of course I didn't mean collective visions, I meant the inner light, that shows us personally what we desire.

 

[Bastiaan]

Well, these kinds of topics popping up I feel is a great positive indicator!

There are many things that need to happen in order for society to change.
Many of us pretty much already know what and in what order.
First problem is how to make them listen.
Second is dealing with those who (think they) benefit from the current state of instinctive chaos, working against the/a solution.
Just let me say one thing.
When we get close (we are getting closer), they will feel it as well and all hell will break loose.
Things will get much worse before they will get better.
We are feeling it now and more people are feeling it, ironically it makes them aware too that something needs to happen making it inevitable.
I love it when I can mathematically/rationally explain what I feel, my faith.
It gives me the best feeling.
Right now, as this topic indicates imo, we need to share, share, share perspectives.
We need not judge or take standpoints.
Just share perspectives and attain a more complete picture together.
Just brainstorming

 

[Forkbender]

We need to lead by example.

There is no us and them, that type of thinking/illusion has gotten us here in the first place.

It is all of us.

 

[Bastiaan]

Yes, that's what I mean by (think they).

They're working against their own enrichment
Not funny of course

 

[restin]

You'll only get visions if you get rid off the inner chains. And many people have got to open their eyes and wake the fuck up. It isn't strange 'we' hit so many walls, because we'll only survive if we keep our eyes open.

Of course I didn't mean collective visions, I meant the inner light, that shows us personally what we desire.

Fine. Then we agree that the only thing we can do is getting rid of the inner chains.

 

[Forkbender]

Yes.

It is a combination of vision and action, visionary action, if you will. I'm using my attention for that and nothing else.

 

[HazardousDavis]

Regarding the Venus Project.. Yes, it maybe too much centered on Technology, but it is not the only point they bring forward.
In any case, even our current model of society will get there at some point, every day technology becomes more advanced, and machines do our work..the only difference is that it is slower because we are driven by profits, and not a betterment of our life standards.

The main point that I like about it is the abolition of the monetary system which is based on self-interest, and the adoption of this "resource-based economy" where you are no longer seeking what is best for you, because there is no incentive to do so.. On the other hand, there is incentive to improve the life of you, and your surrounding.. becoming a more collective effort.

Clean energy, safer means of transportations, less waste, a good management of the Earth's resources better education and culture(thus more concsiousness and awareness).. all those are good points.

And about the technocratic viewpoint...Yes, maybe scientists being in control (no politicians..etc) is not the best idea.. but I think that this issue could be resolved by a solution that lies in-between democracy and technocracy? As in, the people are still represented by politicians of some kind, but those politicians have experts and qualified scientists working at their sides..or a similar model maybe.

You come up with good points for sure. Really, check the anti-civ theory stuff, I think you'll find a lot of those 'good' points that you list above inherent in the anti-civ stuff.
Personally, machines or politicians in control, well, I wouldn't want either. I don't believe politicians can or ever will solve problems/ make things better for us. But then again, as an anarchist, and as before, that is biased.

But you're right, for a better society, money has to go definitely. A resource based economy in my opinion works best on a local scale, I.E. people provide food for themselves, eg I grow my food, you grow yours. On a nationwide scale, our economy is resource based, and everybody has enough, because each grows their own. And as you will find if you look up on it, this is just one example of a primary point existent in anti-civ theory, which, funnily enough, is what all of us (humans) have come from if you go back far enough.

Nice one,

HD