schizophrenic

[ophiuchus]

Well it is proven that to a certain extend genetics play a part of it (people with relatives have a higher chance of getting psychotic) and factors like stress or drug use are proven to trigger a psychosis.

Thirdly, it has NOT been medically proven 'shizophrenia' is a genetic disease.

Well they haven't found the genes responsible for schizophrenia, but if it runs in the family you have a significantly higher chance which does strongly indicate a genetic component. If there are identical twins, and one has schizophrenia, the other has about 50% chance of also becoming schizophrenic so there are also other aspects that play a role. Childhood trauma's for example.

But the thing is, why does one person get a psychosis after using drugs, or having a certain trauma, and the other doesn't? That's why I think that there has to be some genetic vulnerability to fall in the state of psychosis.

you know, it's become popular belief now in many parts of the scientific community that emotions are triggers for many latent genes. so this goes a layer deeper in understanding how something like a hereditary psychosis may arise. "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" doesn't have to strictly tie to the more or less ambiguous world of ( the expression of) genes anymore, which, in my opinion simplifies the paradigm required to look at such an issue. it's well known that people generally take after their parents, and so similarities in patterns of speech and thought (and therefore emotion) easily transition into indicators of similarities in genes and their expression, where the respected similarities are seen. so this not only means physical traits, but can also mean "dis-eases" too.
:idea:

 

[zezt]

Regarding shamanism, what I meant is what I learned in the shamanic training I am doing now is that you go to the 'underworld' which is another name for the collective unconscious. I think in a psychosis you enter the same realm. And with the proper techniques you can choose to get in the underworld or collective unconscious willingly and knowing you enter it, which is the difference between shamanic journeying and a psychosis. Also I think the link to this world is mostly gone while you still keep one foot in this world while journeying shamanically. Though this is a more western branch, and everyone can get into that world, I meant with what I said that in any case, in a psychosis you fall into your own subconscious and the collective unconscious which is according to my teacher also the place you visit while you journey shamanically.

Yeah, I mean the neophyte shaman who it is claimed would often become ill, and have some kind of OBE and/or deep experience where he is vitied by spirits or ancestors who tear hir apart and reconstitute with extra power to heal. Once initiated like you say they can --apparently--willfully enter into ecstatic states. hving said that, many will use mind-altering plants
With so-called psychotic breaks, it is descibed by western psychotherapetic lingo as the energies from the ego are absorbed
by the 'unconscious' etc. usually people experincing these deep states do so in a culture which is totally cut OFF from these deep states. It doesn't even acknowledge them, and we are supposed to be deterministic robots who have no free will! So the nightmare is finding your self in this most vlunerable state at the mercy of this mindset, and this is what has gone on and unforti=unately goes on for many people, and their deep experiences are seen as biological disease which needs suppressing with toxic drugs which can cause harm to the bodymind!

Well they haven't found the genes responsible for schizophrenia, but if it runs in the family you have a significantly higher chance which does strongly indicate a genetic component. If there are identical twins, and one has schizophrenia, the other has about 50% chance of also becoming schizophrenic so there are also other aspects that play a role. Childhood trauma's for example.

But the thing is, why does one person get a psychosis after using drugs, or having a certain trauma, and the other doesn't? That's why I think that there has to be some genetic vulnerability to fall in the state of psychosis.

Is mathematics, and left brain dominance a 'disease'----that capacity also 'runs in families' doesn't it? Dont you have that proclivity shared in families? But is it a disease? Well it could be argues to be one if you were to see 'left brainism disorder' as a mode of being which cuts people off from their bodies, and deeper sensual participation with others and nature---but we wont go there hey? lol

This is a good example of labelling proclivities which 'run in families' and groups, diseases:

, The Dawkins Delusion | MediaCulture | AlterNet

“For example, consider this important argument in The God Delusion. Since belief in God is utterly irrational (one of Dawkins' core beliefs, by the way), there has to be some biological or psychological way of explaining why so many people -- in fact, by far the greater part of the world's population -- fall victim to such a delusion. One of the explanations that Dawkins offers is that believing in God is like being infected with a contagious virus, which spreads throughout entire populations. Yet the analogy -- belief in God is like a virus -- seems to then assume ontological substance. Belief in God is a virus of the mind. Yet biological viruses are not merely hypothesized; they can be identified, observed, and their structure and mode of operation determined. Yet this hypothetical "virus of the mind" is an essentially polemical construction, devised to discredit ideas that Dawkins does not like.
So are all ideas viruses of the mind? Dawkins draws an absolute distinction between rational, scientific and evidence-based ideas, and spurious, irrational notions -- such as religious beliefs. The latter, not the former, count as mental viruses. But who decides what is "rational" and "scientific"? Dawkins does not see this as a problem, believing that he can easily categorize such ideas, separating the sheep from the goats.”

Now, lol THIS next article, if one were to accept the gene theory of 'schizophrenia' , and of course the theory of evolution itself, would give you a different view also, Schizophrenia genes 'favoured by evolution' Ie., it is saying that maybe haveing a genetic difference which would allow some members of the community to be more creative would benefit others.
Remember that western psychotherapy has regarding the shamans as being schizophrenic, and not everyone was 'chosen'---so there we are. But I am not really seeing it as genetic, or biological, but that everyone is human and is capable of deep experience. We must rather not be fearful of this deeper capacity of ourselves and nature,

Now this book is very against the notion of genes being responsible for 'mental illness': The Gene Illusion: Genetic Research in Psychiatry and Psychology Under the Microscope



And like Allusion shows, with Neuroplasticity there is being learnt that genetic traits are not deterministic but moulded by one's lifestyle, experiences, beliefs, capacities, and as said these are often dicstated in families, so you can find yourself in a family which wants you to pursue an academic career like they do, and part of you HATE it and your heart lies else where but your afraid to express this, but you cant even accept this yourself, and this can be a cause of much psychological and physical distress.

I really want you to make a note of this book which is going to be released about April 2012 by Seth Farber (an online friend)
The Spiritual Gift of Madness: The Failure of Psychiatry and the Rise of the Mad Pride Movement.

 

[gammagoblin]

Okay, I guess you are right. One questions remain's though... If it isn't a disease and why the western society views it as dangerous because it is afraid of alternative states of consciousness, what could the possible benefit of having a psychosis be?

I would say, being "trapped" into your subconscious provides a look into the workings of your own mind, and might have the possibility to resolve unsolved conflicts. If guided properly.

But I'm curious what you have to say about this.

 

[zezt]

Okay, I guess you are right. One questions remain's though... If it isn't a disease and why the western society views it as dangerous because it is afraid of alternative states of consciousness, what could the possible benefit of having a psychosis be?

I would say, being "trapped" into your subconscious provides a look into the workings of your own mind, and might have the possibility to resolve unsolved conflicts. If guided properly.

But I'm curious what you have to say about this.

The exploration of the questions you are asking is why I very much recommend the book I did for you, by Seth Farbey. He is very experienced, and is passionate about how 'madness' is of great benefit to this insane world. Where we differ in a big way is this----He is into Sri Aurobindo, and to summarize , Aurobindo believed there would be this transformation of Earth whereby nature would cease from being 'savage'---as in animals eating other animals. Almost like saying, as in the bibical 'fall' motif that the reason that we are like we are has to do with nature being predatory. As much as I deeply am into all other stuff Seth reveals etc, I am at odds with him about this. The person I very much admire, Monica Sjoo, comes from a Goddess understanding of nature which says it-is-alright-as-it-is, and is sacred. What therefore has gone wrong, is not lions attacking animals for food, and eagles swooping down on potential food, etc, and basically life feeding off life---but mindsets which see themselves as apart from nature. And it is not ALL animals being eat. Many animals get away, and not all eat meat, and IF animals didn't eat others, and there wasn't death then things would become truly hellish with overcrowding etc--so THAT would be un-natural. So the question for me is to explore why we became cut off from nature-as-it-is. And a big thing for me is understanding how orthodox religions (which persecuted, and suppressed people of the Goddess etc), and philosophy, and secular thinking thought out and writ down stories/myths which perpetuate this feeling of being cut off, not only from the surrounding naturual world, other species, and other humans, but also from our own nature, and bodies. Some belief systms, like Satanism, use the predatory nature of some of nature to justify being like that themselves, and this I see as not natural.

so you ask:

One questions remain's though... If it isn't a disease and why the western society views it as dangerous because it is afraid of alternative states of consciousness, what could the possible benefit of having a psychosis be?

I would say, being "trapped" into your subconscious provides a look into the workings of your own mind, and might have the possibility to resolve unsolved conflicts. If guided properly.

To answer this we have to wonder what is 'accepted normality', and why is THAT not considered dangerous? Because from what I feel looking round--seeing the news, etc---this accepted reality seems pretty dangerous to me, and yet is accepted as being the 'real world'. If we just take the issue of 'homlessness'--other human beings having to live on the cold streets. For many that is 'normal' isn't it?
We accept that we HAVE to do what we do, and pay tax--the money of which goes to pay for the horric wars--illegal wars--where humans drop bombs on innocent men women, and children (I saw a really horrific video the other day about how our news will not show the realities of war--even though in the past they did--Vietnam etc, YET will show simulated violence which in those days was not allowed to be shown! I saw a little Libyan girl, still alive. The bottom of her face had been blown off and her tongue was hanging out and she was moaning in pain). All this is taken for fukin granted, and/or people just keep heads down and zoom about the roads getting on with their 'lives' in this 'real world'. MANY people are on some form of psychiatric 'medication. They obviously are not really happy with their lives right?

Can you see the abuse being done to yourself, and people, and children by this culture which sees us a robots with no free will? Can you fathom the violence of this? You are forced, through 'education', and the mass media industry, and their influences on your family and peers, to be 'normal', and to deny the vasteness of your being. So is it any wonder that many of us become caught up in the repressed imagery, visions, which unleash themselves overwhelming our fragile MASKS we have to put on --even to ourselves. Because these masks which we show to others so as to fit in we also will show to ourselves. Wel will deny ourselves to FEEL, even cry, and this is also violence to our selves.

So people going into 'psychosis' is really the expose of the charade we are calling normality. It is NOT normal, and is very ugly and is destroying the Web of Life. So it's really important to see through the gatekeepers who pathologize feeling and want to further suppress and injure feeling with their toxic 'cures'.

 

[BrainEater]

i can also recommend a book that seems to fit pretty well. and i can REALLY recommend it...... it's called
"the power of now" by eckhart tolle...
as far as i can tell it has helped me understand my own condition very well and the world in general, how it and we are all insane etc etc... it's pretty much the best spiritual guideline/handbook/manual that i know of.
it's alot about false identification with for example the mind and also about the mind in general, how it works and how your own mind may start to turn against you, like it's pretty much the case with schizophrenia, i guess... :wink:

peace