Same sex mariages

[Forkbender]

If it is true that you aren't born gay, but become gay because of the environment in which you grow up, the same could be said for heterosexuality.

 

[Nomada]

Do we have a choice?

 

[Forkbender]

Not in the sense that we have a choice to go left or right at a fork in the road. There are many different forms of sexuality and I think a large part is determined before you are conscious enough to make such a decision.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'm not saying you can't be born gay. In fact birth itself might be part of the 'environment' that makes certain people so inclined. Biologically you're born as a complementary reflection of the opposite gender. When embracing, you and the opposite sex fit. But somehow the mind within the body of a gay person prefers people of the same sex, and feels no or very little sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. I don't think you'll find many examples of that in nature. It seems to be a uniquely human or urban phenomenon.

 

[Forkbender]

I just googled it and found that there are about 400 species that show homosexual behaviour now and then. I don't think they are exclusively gay, but still.

 

[Nomada]

Past decisions are only important because "they have predetermined" one's capacity to operate in the present.

I think it's not like an egg that breaks when touching the floor that you can't pickup because there's a mess. We are not talking materiality here. They are only important in that you think they are, they are solid in that you firmly believe they are. Every time one blinks, one slightly contracts a muscle, one makes the decision. One only started and then got used to it long ago so one can't see it anymore.

IMO the fork is there, at every moment, at every exhalation, one chooses, and then things occur. And not just sexuality, but the whole spectrum of light.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I just googled it and found that there are about 400 species that show homosexual behaviour now and then. I don't think they are exclusively gay, but still.

Yes, that's my point. I think bisexual behavior is universal, you'll find it throughout nature. But exclusive homosexuality, there seem to be no examples of it.

 

[restin]

I'm not saying you can't be born gay. In fact birth itself might be part of the 'environment' that makes certain people so inclined. Biologically you're born as a complementary reflection of the opposite gender. When embracing, you and the opposite sex fit. But somehow the mind within the body of a gay person prefers people of the same sex, and feels no or very little sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. I don't think you'll find many examples of that in nature. It seems to be a uniquely human or urban phenomenon.

That's simply not true. German Wiki shows even 1500 species that show homosexual behaviour.

Funny, if even animals are said to do unnatural behaviour - what is nature then? Aesthetics? (I know CM you didn't say that, that's not a reply to you=

 

[Nomada]

I don't know one single homosexual that's exclusively homosexual. Most of my friends, including myself, that caress with the same sex are bi, just plainly undefined. They are only called homosexuals by people, most usually heterosexuals, that see them at it.

If socializing with you they'll ask: "Are you gay?" I always answer I have no idea what they are talking about. Or yes, I'm happy.

"Oh yes, I am X [or Y, or W], and can't leave this room"

 

[Forkbender]

IMO the fork is there, at every moment, at every exhalation, one chooses, and then things occur. And not just sexuality, but the whole spectrum of light.

Yes, but most people don't realize this.

 

[????????]

weren't there a pair of male penguins in some zoo that had lived like a couple for years or something? i don't remember where the zoo was.

 

[spice]

This whole 'it's not natural' argument is just a way of avoiding debating the subject on its own merits.

Computers, LSD, Bicycles, and clothes aren't natural either, if you are rigorously applying definitions.

If it occurs in this world, then that's natural enough for me.

I have the feeling that when most people say 'its not natural', they are actually saying;

"It makes me uncomfortable, and doesn't sit with my values very well."

 

[magickmumu]

Did you guys know that there have been studies which compared the brains of gay and straight people.
I don't have all the information, but I am sure it isn't hard to find out more about those studies on the net.

 

[st.bot.32]

I have the feeling that when most people say 'its not natural', they are actually saying;

"It makes me uncomfortable, and doesn't sit with my values very well."

+1

It's a bit of a bunk argument anyway as it means different things to different people. To a christian, humans are separate from animals and "natural" means something different than it does to someone who thinks nature is earth's biosphere, or someone who thinks nature represents everything that is. They could argue all day without convincing each other.

The real issue is one of understanding that other people can have tastes that differ vastly from our own, and learning a bit of tolerance (not feeling threatened because someone else lives in a particular way we wouldn't).

 

[cockknocker]

If everyone was homosexual though, then we wouldn't reproduce because people in the same sex obviously can't. Humans are sexual reproducers, and so we need to have hetero sex to continue the human race.

I wasn't saying its not natural like they need to be burnt at the stake, I just don't think thats how humans evolved to be.


It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable at all, I'm not homophobic in any way, my aunty is gay and shes cool, and i know a few other gay people, I just dont agree with it really.

 

[Faust]

"I wasn't saying its not natural like they need to be burnt at the stake, I just don't think thats how humans evolved to be. "

It obviously is. Homosexuals exist, dont they?

God I hate people who say 'I just don't agree with it'. It's as normal or natural as anything else. Why would it bother you...

 

[Mycophile]

weren't there a pair of male penguins in some zoo that had lived like a couple for years or something? i don't remember where the zoo was.

They even became fathers by now!
http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090603-19689.html

edit:
"the gay birds decided to take on the trials of fatherhood and they were "absolutely" accepted by the rest of the penguins."

LOL. Penguins are further then human society. I'm gonna think about that one tonight...

 

[magickmumu]

Because they do not reproduce.
What a nonsense argument.
Those who did not reproduce are not around anymore.
There bloodline died out a when they stopped reproducing.
Humans did not stop reproducing so there is no need for gays to get children.
Still some gay couples have children.

 

[st.bot.32]

If everyone was homosexual though, then we wouldn't reproduce because people in the same sex obviously can't.

I've heard this argument before, it's kind of irrelevant as everyone is not going to switch gender preference and stop reproducing just because we tolerate homosexuals. Assuming that is the inevitable outcome is really a perfect example of the slippery slope fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Besides, we have historical examples of cultures where homosexual activity was not only openly practiced but promoted, and they were not for want of offspring. The ancient Greeks, for example.

 

[magickmumu]

You don't agree but you sure like to knock some cock.
Strange all this i don't agree nonsense comming form someone calling himself cockknocker :lol: