Responsibility

[GOD]

Caduceus said something a few days ago that has been on my mind for about 6 months . We seem to have atracted a lot of people with mental dissorders and iresponsible people abusing substances lately . I also noticed that the more repressive a country is , for example France , the bigger drug problems they have and the more the population sinks into real classic iresponsible drug abuse like glue sniffing and fixing heroin .

I think things like that cant be baned because it would mean that we are running away from our responsibilitys and that those people who abuse drugs are not acessable to positive advice . I think ..... in theory ..... everything should be allowed to be talked about but that we all have a duty to try to help and educate drug victims , to give them positive advice and try to get them to think about what they are doing to themselves and the whole drug scene . Before someone farts , gets of balance and falls in a canal in Amsterdam and farting becomes illegal..........

What do you all think ?

 

[Telico]

I don't think that it's a problem of state repression. Indeed, here in France Salvia Divinorum, Yopo Seeds, and LSA seeds are perfectly legal, but at the same time there are many kids who find it "fun" to sniff paint removers or other extremely toxic substances. For what reason ? I don't know. Maybe it's because people are more informed about glue or paint removers as drugs substitute than about salvia divinorum or DMT. As a french psychonaut said recently "people are affraid of hallucinogens". Maybe people just want to get high or to feel good, whatever happens next. Maybe they're affraid or not at all interested in having a psychedelic experience, maybe it's too mystic and not enough funny for them. I think that this kind of behavior depends on other factors than repression. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a sociologist neither a political scientist. Maybe things wouldn't be the same if French people were told the truth about psychedelics.


Peace and Love.

 

[st.bot.32]

Yeah, good ideas.

Much like in societies where alcohol is legal but a social taboo especially for kids as soon as they turn legal age or get access to alcohol they have no idea how to use it responsibly and end up chugging whiskey like pop on their first sitting and end up on the floor with alcohol poisoning.

Social taboos and "just say no" ignore the high percentage of kids (up to 50% in many countries) who will try some kind of substance no matter what, and, not knowing its effects, hurt themselves in the process. Much like how conservative "sex education" doesn't teach kids squat all about safe sex. Some feel that presenting objective factual information is condoning the activity, showing they themselves aren't really interested in facts or being objective. Not everyone, but a good percentage of people can see through such an attitude.

Being open, objective and trying to be non-judgmental is important. Otherwise you just turn people away.

 

[Forkbender]

Maybe people just want to get high or to feel good

Yes.

Escapism and psychedelics don't mix.

 

[buffachino]

All we can really do is refer those who are having difficulties to some good information and provide functional advice from our own experiences; other than that they will have to learn the hard way, on their own.

Of course these people are those who are exploited by 'anti-drug' propagandists to make their point, but it’s a love hate relationship on both sides it seems, and the media will protect their fodder, for better or for worse.

And if you just want to 'get high', go base-jumping, or sky-diving.

 

[magickmumu]

I have been to a four day rave in France. You would never find Heroin on a dutch rave, but in France people use H and everything.

 

[HeartCore]

My personal thought about it is that all discussions about addictive substances should be banned from the psychonaut forum. Call me extreme but to my mind, we have a responsibility to make a clear distinction between entheogens/psychedelics and other stuff.

We all are more or less victim of the definition 'drugs' in our cultures, yet we don't speak up when we see discussions about coke, amphetamine, heroin and other crap mixed with these great plants and substances.

This forum is called psychonaut.com but in the current state, is just a sorry excuse for a name. With the current bullshit going on, you can also call it 'hopeless dopeheads of the world.com'.

If you want resonsibilty from your users, first take responsibility yourself and take care of discussions about using/creating/extracting obvious destructive and addictive drugs.

HC

PS Telling someone in a repressive country to seek professional help could be a very bad idea and get them much further in shit.

 

[Telico]

My personal thought about it is that all discussions about addictive substances should be banned from the psychonaut forum.

I perfectly agree. Recently we've tried to ban topics about heroin/cocain/meth/paint removers in the french "synthetic psychedelics" section, and we had a lot of complaints, even though, we still try to ban topics about addictive drugs, because the mere definition of a psychonaut is against addictive drugs. Many french people have criticized this measure, but things seem to be ok now.

 

[Meduzz]

^Agree, and it's not censorship. You don't talk about dogs on a cat forum for instance...

 

[Forkbender]

I guess we could put some information about psychonautism in the forum rules and how addictive substances like coke/meth/heroin are hard to fit in this picture because of their effects, referring to some external sources about how these can be used responsibly (if this is possible at all). In this way we can prevent topics about these substances without being irresponsible in sending people who want to use these drugs out on their own.

I don't think that addiction per se should be the end of the discussion, as it is something that even psychonauts are faced with. Lot's of us have problems controlling their cannabis-use for example, even if they want to. Furthermore, addictive drugs can be psychonautic (i.e. ketamine). The key is responsible use.

 

[Telico]

I guess we could put some information about psychonautism in the forum rules and how addictive substances like coke/meth/heroin are hard to fit in this picture because of their effects

That's what we've tried to do, but people (the French at least) don't want to pay attention to them, because as they say "It's the same kind of information that is handed out by high school prevention organizations, so we don't give a fuck about it".

It sounds like people DO want to get high with addictive/toxic substances :? ...

 

[HeartCore]

The key is responsible use.

Another key is: blood, as in the blood that is spilled in the production and trafficking of cocaine and heroin for example. Aside from the negative influences those two have in my own culture, there are literally wars being waged in order to maintain their availability in our culture.

So it's not really possible I think, to talk about responsible use in the light of those two substances. Even if you only use it once per month, people may, and probably will have, died in order for you to be able to experience it. On the other hand, this goes for a lot of things but not so extreme as with these two globally criminalize d substances.

 

[GOD]

This is not ment as an attack on anyone personaly but its hard so if you are disshonest dont read any further please .

OMG !!!! WOW !!! Nazi tactics . You have to like what i like and you have to do what i say or you are bad . Sounds like the fanatical christians who banned mushrooms in Holland to me . Running away from problems doesnt help anyone , and who of us hasnt done any of those negative drugs ? From alcohol to cigaretts to datura to glue to blah , blah ,blah . If i close my eyes it will go away !!!!! Another case of the nose being to close to the arse . Borderless egoism . Are those people sub human , are you the master race ? What about homosexuals , black people , gypsys , fat people , alkis , tobaco wankers and meat eaters ? Are you going to ban the esoteric people ? Look at the damage some of the esoteric world has done to humanity . Religeon is esoteric , should we ban it , should we call the people who we are frightened of because we are small minded and petty witches or astrologists and burn them ??? Show me the three threads here that have nothing negative in them .

You talk about negative drugs , who from you hasnt abused cannabis , mushrooms , LSD , DMT and hasnt had any problems with them . Look at the definition of psychonaut and explain why those drugs you want to pretend dont exist dont fit somewhere in the psychonaut picture . Then tell me about the very many people here with mental problems who use psychedelics . Are you going to ban people with mental problems ? Where do you draw the line ? Which dictator decides who is mentaly ill ? The fact is that lots of you who take psychedelics have mental problems from depression to borderline to who the fuck knows what ? If all the people here who had mental problems were thrown away by this forum wich three people here would be allowed to remain ??? Fork , me , and ???

Psychedelics when used properly for growth teach compassion , NOT SNOBISM , ESCAPISM AND ELITISM . THat was the cause of the ban on LSD and Psilocybin and all the trouble Leary had and the reason why we have so many problems internationaly , why drugs are illegal .

" "It's the same kind of information that is handed out by high school prevention organizations, so we don't give a fuck about it". "

Do you realise what you just said ??? The implications ? Obviously not . You put yourself on the same level as the government fashist anti drug propoganda . Ignore it , pretend it doesnt exist and then kiss your reflection in the mirror of your planet killing , poluting , murdering cars.

"Another key is: blood, as in the blood that is spilled in the production and trafficking of cocaine and heroin for example."

And the money that comes from selling cannabis that goes to fund terrorism ? The massive polution that dutch grass growers cause for the last 40 years ? THE CHEMICALS THAT YOU PERSONALY USE TO EXTRACT YOUR FAVORIT DRUGS !!!!! Do you recycle , or just poison the earth with them ??? The only reason that there is blood atached to some drugs is the illegality , American opression and because there is no responsible drug help . Do you do anything about it or just sit and condem other people and blame your problems on them ??? Remember the mushroom ban ? Who is responsible for it , and please dont lie and blame christians, or some poor French girl . It was iresponsible , profit orientiert Dutch people who sold her those mushrooms and then turned their backs ,counted the shekels and masterbated their egos .

I took three Ritalin last week , should i be ashamed of myself and walk around in sack cloth and ring a bell while shouting "unclean" like lepers in the middle ages ?

Bans have never achieved anything so you all should stop being so dishonest , bigoted , elitist , hipocrytical and iresponsible . When you put your hands over your eyes are you invisible ? Take a trip and meditate on your fear and ignorance . Remember fear and ignorance were the back bone of fashism , the reason the jews got gassed , should we gas drug abusers ? If we dont try to educate people about positive drug use they will continue to abuse drugs AND IT WILL SPREAD . If it spreads it will be noticed by governments and they will clamp down = ON ALL DRUG USERS .

To clarify what my opinion is - i have nothing against the forum rules being changed . This post was only talking about the situation as it is now . If its decided to change the forum and its not about psychonautics any more maybe the name should be changed to reflect what the forum is about - positive drug use . And if its about positive drug use i will say something every time i see posts about negative psychedelic drug abuse , escapism and posts from mentaly ill people = most posts .

Love GOD

 

[buffachino]

Amen to that god.
No more need be said.

 

[Forkbender]

Thank you, GOD.

I agree that we should promote responsible use. But I also think that we should draw a line somewhere. If people ask for ways to synthesize meth I don't think this is the right place, as this drug has a high potential for abuse, if not in the person who is making it, then at least in the people he is selling it to. We should always point out the dangers of drugs, try to convince people to not do something they are gonna regret later. Banning topics being opened on this subject might prevent us from spreading these warnings, which will eventually harm everyone (which is precisely what you are saying I guess).

Ooh, and thanks for letting me in on the 'sane-club'. :wink:

 

[GOD]

"You don't talk about dogs on a cat forum"

Guess who just shot himself in the foot ??? You mean cat owners cant talk about cats biggest problem ????? Same here , should we just ignore the drug scenes problems ? OUR PROBLEMS ? Join the divide and rule game ?

Fork , i agree we should draw a line somewhere..... by natural control , by public opinion , by democratic means . = if someone starts to write shit point it out , offer alternatives , explain the concequencys and the psychelogical reasons why people abuse substances . For example glue sniffing - we should just tell people that what they are experiencing is not being high and nothing positive . ITS PURE BRAIN DAMAGE . Then ask them why they want to abuse themselves , get them to talk about their problems and try to help . I do have problems with telling people how to do dumb things , like make bombs and amphetamine but the information is freely available all over the net and i`m not telling them to do it . I want to give information coupled with good advice and warnings . Then theres the extacy and psychedelic drug synthesis problem - some of the methods go through amphetamines . What is the difference between an amphetamine psychosis and an exstacy psychosis ? And how many people smoke cannabis and it brings latent mental problems to the surface ?

"Ooh, and thanks for letting me in on the 'sane-club'."

I didnt let you , you earned it , and anyway all members of the psychonuts anal orchester have free membership........


Hey Buff , we want you not only in the "sane club" but also in the psychonuts anal orchester , even if you cant fart in tune or harmony ???

.......... maybe we should form an elite and look down on people ???????????????????????????????

 

[Telico]

For example glue sniffing - we should just tell people that what they are experiencing is not being high and nothing positive . ITS PURE BRAIN DAMAGE . Then ask them why they want to abuse themselves , get them to talk about their problems and try to help.

I must say that you're right. The best thing to do is not to criticize "negative" drugs use but to try to understand why people are abusing drugs, and then try to help them. Disregard them is the best way to make them feel more alone and more desperate than before. I admit that I was kind of blind. Thank you GOD for your enlightenment.

Peace and Love.

PS : I apologize if some phrases/words are inapproriate or gramatically incorrect, I'm a french native speaker..

 

[GOD]

"I apologize if some phrases/words are inapproriate or gramatically incorrect, I'm a french native speaker.."

You have no reason to apologise your English is as good as mine and you can spell better than me and i used to be English .

 

[magickmumu]

GOD you say you took Ritalin last week.
Why ? Do you have ADHD

 

[Forkbender]

Fork , i agree we should draw a line somewhere..... by natural control , by public opinion , by democratic means . = if someone starts to write shit point it out , offer alternatives , explain the concequencys and the psychelogical reasons why people abuse substances . For example glue sniffing - we should just tell people that what they are experiencing is not being high and nothing positive . ITS PURE BRAIN DAMAGE . Then ask them why they want to abuse themselves , get them to talk about their problems and try to help . I do have problems with telling people how to do dumb things , like make bombs and amphetamine but the information is freely available all over the net and i`m not telling them to do it . I want to give information coupled with good advice and warnings . Then theres the extacy and psychedelic drug synthesis problem - some of the methods go through amphetamines . What is the difference between an amphetamine psychosis and an exstacy psychosis ? And how many people smoke cannabis and it brings latent mental problems to the surface ?

We're on the same page, here.