Natural resources and mother Earth

[Brugmansia]

Let's be honest, we take from the earth's blood to generate the fuel for our developments which we have founded through our intelligence.

She's our space ship with her unique orbit around the sun, and so it seems, a rare one with living creatures on it. And a capsule, atmosphere, to deliver them oxygen.

What's your view on how we treat her today? And, what's the role of intelligence when it comes to maintaining a simple life?

 

[Mr.Smith]

greenfly on a rose IMO

 

[Sticki]

Industrialisation was the fall of man.

It took away the direct connection to the land by putting an end to individual farming. We began looking to mass producing company's that are run by greedy men with little to no regard for earths natural resources.

 

[Brugmansia]

But, when the debate occurs, opponents feel that the only option is to oppress intelligence, they cannot understand how intelligence can be kept quiet or at a moderated level since it disturbs their evolvement. Ergo, they'll persist with the opinion they are ahead and others should abide by their path and contribute to it, too.

How to overcome this in attempts to spread awareness without talking about entheogens?

 

[GOD]

Pol pot thought the same . Industrialisation isnt evil its the way some people use new advances . Evolution is change . We cant hide in our history or a false romantic view of it . Get a shovel and dig a whole field or three and then complain about tractors . If you asked many people who were forced to work on farms in drudgery they would have said industrialisation freed them . It alowed people to earn more money and to do more of the things they wanted . It payed for their education and stoped many people from starving . In the end its the abuse of power thats the problem .

 

[Sticki]

Mans intellegence is what seperates us from the animals.

The animals would still be in the multitudes without mans so called intellegence, greed and intervention.

For all man see's he wants and longs to possess. Unhappy to merely coincide, we have to dominate.

 

[restin]

I mainly agree with GOD

 

[st.bot.32]

Unless you believe that the universe was created by an intelligent supernatural being and humans are hence supernatural and outside and separate from "nature" in which case it is possible for us to do supernatural things...

...Human beings are as much a part of the processes of this universe as anything else, and industrialization, technology has resulted from human evolution, much of it born out of necessity. I don't understand the logic in claiming the process exists outside of nature when everything that exists is a part of nature and natural processes. It's much better that we as humans learn how to direct this process constructively.

And yeah I agree with GOD as well. As soon as you had to feed and clothe millions of people, mass production becomes a necessity.

Blaming industrialization is like in the episode of the simpsons, where springfield gets hit by a meteor, so they burn the observatory so "this will never happen again". Speaking of which, the earth is well overdue for it's next mass extinction/meteor collision that happens on average what, once every 60 million years?

 

[Sticki]

Pol pot thought the same . Industrialisation isnt evil its the way some people use new advances . Evolution is change . We cant hide in our history or a false romantic view of it . Get a shovel and dig a whole field or three and then complain about tractors . If you asked many people who were forced to work on farms in drudgery they would have said industrialisation freed them . It alowed people to earn more money and to do more of the things they wanted . It payed for their education and stoped many people from starving . In the end its the abuse of power thats the problem .

I agree 100% industrial machinery such as tractors and ploughs have helped alot, but as you also say it gave people more money and time to do what they "Wanted" rather then what they "Needed". Making us some what dependant on big operations, Once town based, Then county, Then country and finally International distribution leaving us open to all kinds of devaluation and vulnerability.

 

[Sticki]

If anything, Industrialisaton and technological advances have driven us further away from nature and in are strive we have lost touch with our real purpose. We are on a path of self destruction and our wrecklessness and carelessness is disgusting and a main cause of this.

Why do we need industrialisation to clothe people? To feed people? To heal people?

All these things were once skills the average human being possessed, skills passed down from generation to generation and now we are merely conditiond weak minded wreckless individuals becuase some one else has done the hard work for us.

 

[GOD]

"Why do we need industrialisation to clothe people? To feed people? To heal people? "

I dont want to go back to wearing rags . I like ambulances , hospitals , modern medicine , fire engines . Dying at 35 was shit , so was infant death , polio and ? Think about the flu pandemic at the start of the last century and how it wiped out about 20 million people . That isnt posible any more . Look at whats happening in mexico and the US and think what it would be like without modern medicine and comunications . Again look at how Pol pot tried to change his country and put it nearly back into the stone age .

 

[st.bot.32]

"Why do we need industrialisation to clothe people? To feed people? To heal people? "

I dont want to go back to wearing rags . I like ambulances , hospitals , modern medicine , fire engines . Dying at 35 was shit

Yeah, it's called basic division of labor. Now you can devote your life to being a excellent doctor, or specialize in studying and preserving marine life, or learning about the universe, or being a skilled carpenter, etc. It's very hard work--but your energy is focused in one direction instead of spread out all over the place. As a friend of mine in his 60's who had cataracts taken out and could see again said, "thank god there's people who do more with their lives than dig with shovels"

Of course you can be a jack of all trades and a master of none. You can also go live in the bush, hunt/gather ,and make your own splints when you break a leg, and use home remedies like bloodletting to cure a cold, and pull your own teeth as they all start falling out at age 40. There's people who do just that.

Here's a point of view on our purpose regarding the earth. Our purpose is to evolve so that we can protect the earth from the next asteroid-induced mass extinction. There's a positive goal to work towards.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I find we have become way too prevalent, our numbers are much too much.

I have long debated whether the human race is beautiful, or ugly... and it seems like neither existed without us, there was no animal intelligent enough to witness beauty... or disgust.

I don't really know how to comprehend our own existance, it is far too vast to encompass that knowledge.

I would say that I will never, ever, complain about what time I live in. However I would always have loved to explore history directly.

My favorite civilizations were the native americans, the chinese and japanese in long ago, and the middle and dark ages.

The present, brings to mind the term artificial and synthetic, greed, manipulation, and rapid change. It is becoming a very odd planet indeed, and when I look to the future it seems short.

I CANNOT see our existence as a race for more than a millennia more. I just don't know where we would go - our consciousness would far surpass anything, and we would most likely...

I don't know. I'm going to go to sleep now.

 

[GOD]

"there was no animal intelligent enough to witness beauty... or disgust. "

I dont agree with that .

About peoples pink glasses romantic view of the past . In the most of the past people diednt wash , wash or change their clothes , wiped their arses with their hands / water / leaves , didnt clean their teeth and lots of people had magots liveing in their hair and in their clothes .

The azteks used to practice mass murder . The punishments for most crimes in many societys was slavery or hands / head off . The pigs didnt say please they tortured people and there was no legal aid and people couldnt afford solicitors . Often the local war lord had the right to fuck your girlfriend on your weding night and taxes / protection money was collected by people with weapons . It often wasnt a percentage of earnings but a fixed amount meaning that VERY many people spent their entire lives in debt . Because of lead pipes , oilburning lamps , candles , cooking in pots made of the wrong metals , breathing in air poluted with smoke from coal fires and no / very poor sanitry ( Peopole shit in buckets and threw it out of the window ) directly because of shakeinmg hands with someone who had shit on their fingers or because the water suply was contaminated people died people died YOUNG . Robbery was an every day thing so owning something ment being in the position to protect it = only the rich owned things and slavery was normal .

Yes , yes the good old days were realy wonderfull , the peace , the quiet , sitting round the campfire singing songs and looking at the stars........at least for those who have watched to many hollywood films.......

 

[Mr.Smith]

.

 

[GOD]

Well said .

BUT we all know the US has fucked the world for decades with its foregn policy , greed and lending itself our money . The answer to that is the fuckers will have to work more and spend less so that they can pay their debts . That means at least a 50 % drop in their living standards . When i think about them having to give up humvies , 4 wheel drive living rooms on wheels , actualy haveing to do some work , not haveing three hektar fridges switched to minus 200° C and rideing bycycles i dont feel very confident . WE are heading for big trouble . It seems more likely that the problem gets solved by a nice flu virus , a comet , yosemite going bang , the san andreas fault finaly doing the big one , the marsians invadeing or a nuclear war . Or maybe on the 21st / 12 / 2012 all the maniacs see the light and start being civilised.............

 

[Mr.Smith]

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[Mr.Smith]

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[restin]

talking about flu' virus, there is a nice H5 N1 strain migrating out of mexico as we speak.

Ironic that I just saw 12 monkeys yesterday

True.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok, so we make our new energy source, we come up with some insane power source from solar energy so all energyis free after the initial set up of the panels, and we have enough for our growing demand...

Then what?
We keep advancing, we make new technologies to increasingly become more and more lazy,
Then what?
We travel to new planets? We take over mars?
Then what?
Chances are we will not be able to leave our solar system.
This means all life will die out when our sun dies out.
Then what?

Sorry this is extremely pessimistic, but really where the hell is evolution suppose to go? Why did consciousness become a spontaneous process?