my colonized cakes.
- Auteur de la discussion Ultima
- Date de début
Goran.Hrsak
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 30/3/06
- Messages
- 2 454
I have also such problem. OK I were in such problems.
What is main cause?
1. Lower temp in incubation time.
2. To much water or less
3. Very little spores inoculated
4. Spores are 25% fertile. U have low germinating spores.
5. Shake little your jar from time to time. First week three times per day
6. Grain in jar isn't loose. So there is no way for spores to reach inside of jar.
7. Grain isn't preboiled and soaked in water (but this isn't seriously condition like others mentioned above)
8. Other factors like fast heat coming in pressure cooker, fast cooling, heat spore inoculation. (also lower conditions)
U WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING???
I WILL TELL U.
SWEET SMELL FOR ME, OR AS U SAD, LIKE SOME KIND OF CHEESE IS ACTUALLY GRAIN FERMENTATION!!!!!!!! FERMENTATION MY FRIEND!!! I TEST IT AFTER 20th FAILURE AND FOUND ALCOHOL!!! GRAIN STARTS TO FERMENTING AND BOIL. THIS IS WHY U SEE WHITE MYCELIUM BUT AFTER SOME TIME (from 3weeks to 8 weeks) WHITE COLOR FADE AND ONLY LITTLE BLISS IS LEFT IN JAR.
THIS IS CAUSE WHY U HAVEN'T SEEN NO ABNORMALITIES, MOLDS, COLOR CHANGE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF WEIRD CAKE LOOK.
GOT IT, MY FRIEND?
What is main cause?
1. Lower temp in incubation time.
2. To much water or less
3. Very little spores inoculated
4. Spores are 25% fertile. U have low germinating spores.
5. Shake little your jar from time to time. First week three times per day
6. Grain in jar isn't loose. So there is no way for spores to reach inside of jar.
7. Grain isn't preboiled and soaked in water (but this isn't seriously condition like others mentioned above)
8. Other factors like fast heat coming in pressure cooker, fast cooling, heat spore inoculation. (also lower conditions)
U WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING???
I WILL TELL U.
SWEET SMELL FOR ME, OR AS U SAD, LIKE SOME KIND OF CHEESE IS ACTUALLY GRAIN FERMENTATION!!!!!!!! FERMENTATION MY FRIEND!!! I TEST IT AFTER 20th FAILURE AND FOUND ALCOHOL!!! GRAIN STARTS TO FERMENTING AND BOIL. THIS IS WHY U SEE WHITE MYCELIUM BUT AFTER SOME TIME (from 3weeks to 8 weeks) WHITE COLOR FADE AND ONLY LITTLE BLISS IS LEFT IN JAR.
THIS IS CAUSE WHY U HAVEN'T SEEN NO ABNORMALITIES, MOLDS, COLOR CHANGE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF WEIRD CAKE LOOK.
GOT IT, MY FRIEND?
Goran.Hrsak
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 30/3/06
- Messages
- 2 454
Cake and growing mycelium HAVE TO - MUST smell like shrooms!! :!:
Jar or cake in or out of jar will smell like fresh (freshly picked up) shrooms. Also like Forest, trees, Woods-forested soil, decomposing organic waste filled with various molds and shrooms, forest natural shroom or like fine grocery edible fungi&shrooms.
Odor lke cheese or sweet caramela, after that like old socks with unbearable smell shows 2 things. One is fermentation which is stimulated with invisible mold just like one from beer or bread. Spore which helps bread to rise and become "mature" for baking.
Your cake is going to be white some times, even to long time which can very easily fool shroom grower. "OK, this jar needs more time." But after day's and week's white color disintegrate into black mass and uglier smell. THROW IT AWAY!!!
WHAT U CAN DO WITH JARS IN YOUNG STADIUM OF FERMENTATION?
Place them in wood chips and grass, cover that with dry leafs under tree which is surrounded with minimum 4-8 other trees. Or just do that in your garden(if U live in house) or park(here U need to find proper tree-water supply is that tree) and cover that mix with dry cow shit mixed with "black enriched" soil. Also some weed or any kind of grass is good for more natural growing environment. Also grass protect soil from illness and undermoisting with very low mineral depletion.
Jar or cake in or out of jar will smell like fresh (freshly picked up) shrooms. Also like Forest, trees, Woods-forested soil, decomposing organic waste filled with various molds and shrooms, forest natural shroom or like fine grocery edible fungi&shrooms.
Odor lke cheese or sweet caramela, after that like old socks with unbearable smell shows 2 things. One is fermentation which is stimulated with invisible mold just like one from beer or bread. Spore which helps bread to rise and become "mature" for baking.
Your cake is going to be white some times, even to long time which can very easily fool shroom grower. "OK, this jar needs more time." But after day's and week's white color disintegrate into black mass and uglier smell. THROW IT AWAY!!!
WHAT U CAN DO WITH JARS IN YOUNG STADIUM OF FERMENTATION?
Place them in wood chips and grass, cover that with dry leafs under tree which is surrounded with minimum 4-8 other trees. Or just do that in your garden(if U live in house) or park(here U need to find proper tree-water supply is that tree) and cover that mix with dry cow shit mixed with "black enriched" soil. Also some weed or any kind of grass is good for more natural growing environment. Also grass protect soil from illness and undermoisting with very low mineral depletion.
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
Meduzz a dit:
I've let jars colonize on a shelf in the open and they got plenty of light. They colonized fine.
As GOD said , light doesn't kill mycelium. If light did kill mycelium then how would you introduce light to induce pinning without killing your cakes?
Think before you speak.
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
GOD a dit:
Psilocybe cyanescens isn't easier to grow than cubensis. It is extremely hard to grow cyanescens indoors. They require a low temp to fruit, around 50 degrees. Growing them indoors requires a refrigerated fruiting chamber with plenty of fresh air exchange. They are usually grown in outdoor beds which fruit during the fall. You have to have a climate that supports their growth such as the pacific northwest, germany or even upper New York state.
Panaeolus cyanescens is easily grown indoors and requires the same conditions as Psilocybe cubensis. They however need dung/manure to grow. Horse manure works best but "zoo-doo" ( they sell composted herbivore manure at some zoos) and cow manure will also work. They also have to be misted regularly to induce pinning but once they pin misting should stop.
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
GOD a dit:
Cold shocking cubensis IS pointless. This is a technique that is used on species which NEED a cold shock to fruit. Many edible species need a cold shock or they won't pin. How this technique started getting used for cubensis is beyond me.
Dunking a cake cannot be compared to waterboarding a human being. Waterboarding is a torture. Mushroom mycelium ENJOYS being soaked or dunked from time to time. Mushrooms aren't people. I've seen MANY Psilocybe cyanescen patches flooded during heavy rains. Days later after the water had dried up, the ground was still wet just not flooded anymore, the patches had some of the biggest flushes I have ever seen. Mushrooms need water to grow. Dunking them is NOT drowning them. In fact a good way to store a mushroom culture for LONG periods of time is to place a piece of mycelium in clean sterile distilled water. You can keep a mushroom culture for around 2 years in the fridge this way and it will still be 100% alive and ready to grow.
However only cakes which are dry should be dunked. This is usually after the first 2 flushes or so. The best way to dunk cakes is put them in a pot of room temp water and put it under a faucet. Let the faucet run slightly, barely on. You want the pot to overflow VERY SLOWLY while dunking for about 6-12 hrs. The constant slow overflow helps prevent bacteria from growing in stagnant water. Adding peroxide to the water is usually a bad idea as the mycelium has to produce peroxidase to break down the peroxide which just depletes its nutrients and makes it work harder than it has to.
The long time growers at the shroomery/mycotopia are not "mis-guided". They have developed their techniques after YEARS of growing MULTIPLE species not just Psilocybe cubensis. I can't believe that someone who said "Psilocybe cyanescen are EASY to grow" is calling the long time growers at other forums "mis-guided". Go to the shroomery and read the posts of a member named RogerRabbit then tell me he is "mis-guided". Its hard to be mis-guided after 20+ years of ACTUAL mushroom growing experience with dozens of species!
The shroomery may have tons of people talking about their problems but this mushroom forum also has people constantly asking "whats this?" , "do i put the verm/brf in the jars AFTER I boil them?", "My jars turned pink/purple, is that normal?" etc. All the sites have TONS of newbies just learning to grow that are asking questions. Thats why the sites are there, for people to learn.
I've seen amazing things at the shroomery. New species being grown for the first time. Over 20 new species have been found, pictures posted, spores distributed to others, and cultures grown and fruited by shroomery members. I've seen no such thing here.
Please don't put down and trash talk a very good site with very good information simply because you lack the know-how of mushroom cultivation and somehow feel threatened by them.
To everyone else:
If you are serious about mushroom cultivation buy or borrow a copy of a book by Paul Stamets called "Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms". It has all the basics of mushroom cultivation plus it even details MANY species and ways to grow them including Psilocybes and many edible species. Everything from cubensis, to wood lovers such as Psilocybe cyanescen and Psilocybe azurescen (arguably the strongest Psilocybe) as well as edibles such as oysters and shiitake and medicinals such as Ganoderma species (Reishi).
Also visit all the mushroom forums you can find. I'm sure there is atleast one tid-bit of info on each which isn't on the others.
Good luck with all your grows and Happy hunting to all the mushroom hunters out there.
One last thing about funny smells. The rule of thumb is that all mycelium should smell very similar (most of the time exactly like) to the mushroom you are growing. Cubensis mycelium should smell like fresh cubensis, oyster mushroom mycelium should smell like fresh oyster mushrooms, Reishi mycelium should smell like fresh Reishi mushrooms etc. Any stinking, foul, moldy, sickly sweet or gym sock smell should be a sign of contamination. Throw the jars out, jars are about $1 a piece while a hospital bill is not. Most contaminates won't hurt you unless you ingest large amounts but you should be very careful with purple/pink contaminates. These could be Fusarium which causes spinal meningitis. If you MUST save a jar then its best to pressure cook it for 2 hours, then open and dump it while outdoors and immediately fill it with alcohol or spray it down profusely with Lysol. Let it sit for awhile while soaked in Lysol or filled with alcohol, 15 minutes would be a good idea or longer. Then when you clean it make sure you DON'T use a sponge that will be used later to clean dishes.
Wow, my fingers hurt after all that typing.
Best wishes to all.
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 14/1/06
- Messages
- 14 944
P.Cyanescens is the easyest mushroom to grow . Maybe you cant grow it indoors because where you live is to hot . In northern europe = north germany and holland it will grow indoors . It needs 18°C to flower . One reason why its much easyer to grow than P.Cubensis is because you dont have to do any sterile work at all . How do i know ? Because i did it for many years , over and over again in bulk and was always sucessfull . By in bulk i mean thousands of 1 and 1.5 liter jars . I mean sterilising more than 100 jars at a time in a self made preasure cooker . More than 400 jars a day and a three day run = more than 1,000 jars each run . I`ve grown tons of P.Cyanescens myceleum in bags and containers . I`ve put more than 2 tons out in nature .
Panaeolus cyanescens doesnt need dung/manure to grow . I`ve done it many times and never used dung/manure . And i never misted them either . People have to mist them because they arent growing them optimaly .
Dunking is a way of getting more out of a dumb method of growing . If one does it optimaly one doesnt need to waterboard them .
" Mushroom mycelium ENJOYS being soaked or dunked from time to time."
How do you know that ? Did you ask them ? All the myceleum i`ve seen out doors that go to wet came good the next flush but didnt flush as many times or produce as much in the long run as other patches . Myceleum cant swim .
"I can't believe that someone who said "Psilocybe cyanescen are EASY to grow" is calling the long time growers at other forums "mis-guided"
I am saying that those sites are full of people playing post offices . I say that from 20 years of growing mushrooms sucessfuly .
"constantly asking "whats this?" , "do i put the verm/brf in the jars AFTER I boil them?", "My jars turned pink/purple, is that normal?"
Yes . Because they have followed the advice of sites like you named wich are full of confused people .
"you lack the know-how of mushroom cultivation and somehow feel threatened by them. "
Dont project your ignorance on me . The only thing i feel is that growing mushrooms is very easy and that those sites complicate it and confuse new growers . Thats why they have so many problems and ask so many questions .
Panaeolus cyanescens doesnt need dung/manure to grow . I`ve done it many times and never used dung/manure . And i never misted them either . People have to mist them because they arent growing them optimaly .
Dunking is a way of getting more out of a dumb method of growing . If one does it optimaly one doesnt need to waterboard them .
" Mushroom mycelium ENJOYS being soaked or dunked from time to time."
How do you know that ? Did you ask them ? All the myceleum i`ve seen out doors that go to wet came good the next flush but didnt flush as many times or produce as much in the long run as other patches . Myceleum cant swim .
"I can't believe that someone who said "Psilocybe cyanescen are EASY to grow" is calling the long time growers at other forums "mis-guided"
I am saying that those sites are full of people playing post offices . I say that from 20 years of growing mushrooms sucessfuly .
"constantly asking "whats this?" , "do i put the verm/brf in the jars AFTER I boil them?", "My jars turned pink/purple, is that normal?"
Yes . Because they have followed the advice of sites like you named wich are full of confused people .
"you lack the know-how of mushroom cultivation and somehow feel threatened by them. "
Dont project your ignorance on me . The only thing i feel is that growing mushrooms is very easy and that those sites complicate it and confuse new growers . Thats why they have so many problems and ask so many questions .
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
I live in Seattle, Washington. Psilocybe cyanescens grow wild here during the fall/winter. They will not fruit at 65f as you say. If that was true they would fruit here until about May and then start fruiting in early August. The real season for them is Sept to Dec/Jan. Mushrooms do NOT flower, they fruit. Plants flower not fungi. Psilocybe cyanescens can be SPAWNED to un-sterilized substrate. All mushrooms can be spawned to un-sterile substrates, its called pasteurization. Pasteurization kills off most harmful contaminates while leaving behind the beneficial ones. Even people like Paul Stamets (he's has A LOT more credentials than you with mushrooms) has said that they are indeed hard to grow indoors.
You contradicted yourself in this statement:
"One reason why its much easyer to grow than P.Cubensis is because you dont have to do any sterile work at all . How do i know ? Because i did it for many years , over and over again in bulk and was always sucessfull . By in bulk i mean thousands of 1 and 1.5 liter jars . I mean sterilising more than 100 jars at a time in a self made preasure cooker . "
If it doesn't need sterilization then why did you sterilize 100 jars at a time?
Panaeolus cyanescens don't need manure to fruit, or so you claim. What did you grow them on? I'd like to know. If you say you grew them on PF cakes I'll laugh my ass off for hours! I've only seen one strain of Panaeolus cyanescens grow on straight grain and that is a strain from Australia and it did very poorly on just grain. Small, overly skinny sickly looking mushrooms.
How do you grow "optimally" without misting? What do you do to replace the mistings?
I don't need to project ignorance on you, you do that yourself.
If those other sites are so bad at what they do then why do they have SOOOOOO many success stories with multiple species while all I see on this site is near misses and failures?
I'd love to see pictures of these indoor Psilocybe cyanescens. I'm betting that you were in fact growing cubensis that someone labeled as cyans. Cyans need COLD temps not 18C/64F. Everytime I pick cyans my hands are freezing cold.
You ranting on and on about how cyans don't need sterile conditions is bullshit. If you grow the mycelium on grains , the grains still need to be sterilized. If they aren't they will be covered in mold and bacteria that is naturally present on the grains. Grains aren't grown in sterile conditions they are grown in fields!
Now if you are talking about spawning mycelium to un-sterile substrate then that could be said for any mushroom. The point of bulk substrate is that the grain spawn colonizes the bulk substrate fast enough to beat out any contaminates. Bulk substrates are not meant to be sterile.
The patches I have seen flooded get bigger and bigger each year. While other patches that don't get flooded get bigger but not as fast as the others. That is as long as they aren't submerged for weeks at a time.
I know they like it because if I have a cake (i dont use cakes anymore it is an inefficient way to grow) and it starts to dry out after 3 flushes then after dunking it springs back to life as if it was a new cake.
Don't try to say they only dry out because I'm doing something wrong. The mushrooms contain water, 90% of their weight is water. Where does that water come from? magic la-la land? NO!!
It comes from the water that is in the cake. As mushrooms grow water is used.
I have been to Amsterdam and in their coffee shops that sold mushrooms they have cubensis which were labeled as Psilocybe cubensis/Psilocybe azurescens hybrid. That is, of course, a load of bullshit!! Its called B+ strain of cubensis which is in fact just a cubensis. I don't trust shit that comes out of Holland for that reason.
I'll gladly send people on this site some Psilocybe cyanescens spores and let's see if they can get them to fruit easier than cubensis. I bet they won't be able to.
Also if you seem to know so much let me ask you a simple question.
What is the benefit of cloning a nice healthy mushroom onto an agar plate versus starting from multispore inoculation?
I await your answer(s).
You contradicted yourself in this statement:
"One reason why its much easyer to grow than P.Cubensis is because you dont have to do any sterile work at all . How do i know ? Because i did it for many years , over and over again in bulk and was always sucessfull . By in bulk i mean thousands of 1 and 1.5 liter jars . I mean sterilising more than 100 jars at a time in a self made preasure cooker . "
If it doesn't need sterilization then why did you sterilize 100 jars at a time?
Panaeolus cyanescens don't need manure to fruit, or so you claim. What did you grow them on? I'd like to know. If you say you grew them on PF cakes I'll laugh my ass off for hours! I've only seen one strain of Panaeolus cyanescens grow on straight grain and that is a strain from Australia and it did very poorly on just grain. Small, overly skinny sickly looking mushrooms.
How do you grow "optimally" without misting? What do you do to replace the mistings?
I don't need to project ignorance on you, you do that yourself.
If those other sites are so bad at what they do then why do they have SOOOOOO many success stories with multiple species while all I see on this site is near misses and failures?
I'd love to see pictures of these indoor Psilocybe cyanescens. I'm betting that you were in fact growing cubensis that someone labeled as cyans. Cyans need COLD temps not 18C/64F. Everytime I pick cyans my hands are freezing cold.
You ranting on and on about how cyans don't need sterile conditions is bullshit. If you grow the mycelium on grains , the grains still need to be sterilized. If they aren't they will be covered in mold and bacteria that is naturally present on the grains. Grains aren't grown in sterile conditions they are grown in fields!
Now if you are talking about spawning mycelium to un-sterile substrate then that could be said for any mushroom. The point of bulk substrate is that the grain spawn colonizes the bulk substrate fast enough to beat out any contaminates. Bulk substrates are not meant to be sterile.
The patches I have seen flooded get bigger and bigger each year. While other patches that don't get flooded get bigger but not as fast as the others. That is as long as they aren't submerged for weeks at a time.
I know they like it because if I have a cake (i dont use cakes anymore it is an inefficient way to grow) and it starts to dry out after 3 flushes then after dunking it springs back to life as if it was a new cake.
Don't try to say they only dry out because I'm doing something wrong. The mushrooms contain water, 90% of their weight is water. Where does that water come from? magic la-la land? NO!!
It comes from the water that is in the cake. As mushrooms grow water is used.
I have been to Amsterdam and in their coffee shops that sold mushrooms they have cubensis which were labeled as Psilocybe cubensis/Psilocybe azurescens hybrid. That is, of course, a load of bullshit!! Its called B+ strain of cubensis which is in fact just a cubensis. I don't trust shit that comes out of Holland for that reason.
I'll gladly send people on this site some Psilocybe cyanescens spores and let's see if they can get them to fruit easier than cubensis. I bet they won't be able to.
Also if you seem to know so much let me ask you a simple question.
What is the benefit of cloning a nice healthy mushroom onto an agar plate versus starting from multispore inoculation?
I await your answer(s).
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
CaptainMax a dit:
People this is good advice!!!!!! Listen to Max!!
GOD claims its more work and risk. That may be true if you are like him. I'd like to see someone using cakes outperform grain to bulk substrate. Its just not gonna happen. GOD seems to want to keep everyone here limited to what he believes is the easy way.
As they say the easy way is never the best way to get something done.
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
Goran.Hrsak a dit:P.Cyanescens? I would like to grow them!!! But sadly need to announce that I do not have such spores. This strain is so far from me
Psilocybe cyanescens isn't a "strain". It is a species. It is NOT a cubensis.
mushhed8055
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 9/4/08
- Messages
- 204
wahoo
Goran.Hrsak
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 30/3/06
- Messages
- 2 454
GOD, BLIMEYGRIMEY tell me some advices. :?:
I have succeeded in growing after more then year. :!: Always funny sweet smell come out of jar with white mycelium. Mycelium was slightly psydelic when U make tea out of him. Fast, before odor start to dominate jar I cook tea out of him. So shrooms waiting has been waste of time. Odor turns into stench! Afoul! But now after some time I mixed Cubensis Golden teacher and F+. spores and received one genes of shrooms or maybe genus mix? :?: Wonder if such mix is possible?
I syringed huge amount of spores! Old spores, 4 month old!
But badly stored. Only in ziplock and in letter on low temp and high temp. From 5 to 35°C. Also water in air various from time to time. 10 to 60%. So maybe my spores (which i RECEIVED as gift from friend which has stored them for quest how much time, and that friend lives in South African Republic and I live in Croatia! 10 days in post offices and planes. Huge dose of "evil" environment and influences for spore print! OR AM I MAYBE WRONG????
:?:
NOW, one of my cakes succeed to form fungi out. Jar was on elements in kitchen! Hot or warm air all day or periods of time, from 25-35°C. 35 is radical maximum! Maybe never reached. But this is hard limit.
And then after 20-35 days (lack of time and fear from another decay) I have removed parts of cake from jar with fork. Randomized mycelium on layer of water storing granules. Like one for trees or bigger plants with some mineral elements in them. Reddish-brownish in color, like marbles and one is like very small gravel. Sandy gravel. 0,2milimeters wide and long.
FIRST flush was big in count but very small shrooms.
SECOND flush was lesser but shrooms was much bigger. One was so huge! Cap 10cm and stem 25cm! :!:
NOW! What to do next??
I sprayed cake with fine amount of water. Is that enough?
Or should I water cake in "dunking" technique? Just to let water runs round the cake and over him? How long? Cause this is not normal cake! Cake is thorned apart round the pot. Like AZARIUS grow box. Only granules instead of perlite.
I sow one small shroom today, but looks like abort to me. Maybe something will come out of that. So what to do!? PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR ADVICES.
How and why to do something? Also can I put cake into fresh cooked (sterile) grain? Can old cake invade (also bunch of spores are round the whole pot-lid) with hope of cake expanding? I thought on something like new cake expanding just like first syringe inculcation. But can this work? Or can I put cake into chest fulfilled with dry weed, grass, wood chips, soil mixed with manure (cow).?
WHAT CAN I DO?
BUT WHAT CAN I DO NOW? TO INDUCE NEXT (third) FLUSH? :?:
PLEASE HELP ME GUYS.
PEACE
LOVE
LIGHT
BLESS
I have succeeded in growing after more then year. :!: Always funny sweet smell come out of jar with white mycelium. Mycelium was slightly psydelic when U make tea out of him. Fast, before odor start to dominate jar I cook tea out of him. So shrooms waiting has been waste of time. Odor turns into stench! Afoul! But now after some time I mixed Cubensis Golden teacher and F+. spores and received one genes of shrooms or maybe genus mix? :?: Wonder if such mix is possible?
I syringed huge amount of spores! Old spores, 4 month old!
But badly stored. Only in ziplock and in letter on low temp and high temp. From 5 to 35°C. Also water in air various from time to time. 10 to 60%. So maybe my spores (which i RECEIVED as gift from friend which has stored them for quest how much time, and that friend lives in South African Republic and I live in Croatia! 10 days in post offices and planes. Huge dose of "evil" environment and influences for spore print! OR AM I MAYBE WRONG????
:?:
NOW, one of my cakes succeed to form fungi out. Jar was on elements in kitchen! Hot or warm air all day or periods of time, from 25-35°C. 35 is radical maximum! Maybe never reached. But this is hard limit.
And then after 20-35 days (lack of time and fear from another decay) I have removed parts of cake from jar with fork. Randomized mycelium on layer of water storing granules. Like one for trees or bigger plants with some mineral elements in them. Reddish-brownish in color, like marbles and one is like very small gravel. Sandy gravel. 0,2milimeters wide and long.
FIRST flush was big in count but very small shrooms.
SECOND flush was lesser but shrooms was much bigger. One was so huge! Cap 10cm and stem 25cm! :!:
NOW! What to do next??
I sprayed cake with fine amount of water. Is that enough?
Or should I water cake in "dunking" technique? Just to let water runs round the cake and over him? How long? Cause this is not normal cake! Cake is thorned apart round the pot. Like AZARIUS grow box. Only granules instead of perlite.
I sow one small shroom today, but looks like abort to me. Maybe something will come out of that. So what to do!? PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR ADVICES.
How and why to do something? Also can I put cake into fresh cooked (sterile) grain? Can old cake invade (also bunch of spores are round the whole pot-lid) with hope of cake expanding? I thought on something like new cake expanding just like first syringe inculcation. But can this work? Or can I put cake into chest fulfilled with dry weed, grass, wood chips, soil mixed with manure (cow).?
WHAT CAN I DO?
BUT WHAT CAN I DO NOW? TO INDUCE NEXT (third) FLUSH? :?:
PLEASE HELP ME GUYS.
PEACE
LOVE
LIGHT
BLESS
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 14/1/06
- Messages
- 14 944
The day tremperature is about 18°C when they start to flower. They flower here from the middle to end of september untill the first real frost .
P.Cyanescens spores can be mixed with tap water and put over bags of shredded wood with no sterilisation and no pasturisation and they grow . I have grown them that way many times and also grown their myceleum for spawning bags using sterilised grain many times .
Spawning to unsterilised substrates is a wast of time unless you use a myceleum that likes it cold and grows on wood . Its inviting contamination .
"If it doesn't need sterilization then why did you sterilize 100 jars at a time? "
Because when you grow myceleunm on grain you have to sterilise .
"What do you do to replace the mistings? "
Case them .
"What did you grow them on?"
On cased rye . Its a pity you werent in court with me so you could tell the judge , the prosecuter and the police that what they were looking at wasnt Panaeolus cyanescens then i wouldnt have been found guilty . They said that they had never seen so many mushrooms growing on so small an area .
Where do i say to anyone to grow P.Cyanescens indoors ? Its just another thing you have twisted . If you have the temperature its possible , but i always recomend people to do it out doors .
"What is the benefit of cloning a nice healthy mushroom onto an agar plate versus starting from multispore inoculation? "
IF...... you know the Psilocybin content of your mushroom and its high the myceleum that you grow from it will also have a good Psilocybin content ...... if grown in the same way , at the same temperature , on the same substrate as the original mushroom was grown .
What are the disadvantages of growing on agar ? What are the disadvantages of growing mono cultures and the advantages of growin from multi spore inoculations ?
The rest is to confused and childish to answer .
P.Cyanescens spores can be mixed with tap water and put over bags of shredded wood with no sterilisation and no pasturisation and they grow . I have grown them that way many times and also grown their myceleum for spawning bags using sterilised grain many times .
Spawning to unsterilised substrates is a wast of time unless you use a myceleum that likes it cold and grows on wood . Its inviting contamination .
"If it doesn't need sterilization then why did you sterilize 100 jars at a time? "
Because when you grow myceleunm on grain you have to sterilise .
"What do you do to replace the mistings? "
Case them .
"What did you grow them on?"
On cased rye . Its a pity you werent in court with me so you could tell the judge , the prosecuter and the police that what they were looking at wasnt Panaeolus cyanescens then i wouldnt have been found guilty . They said that they had never seen so many mushrooms growing on so small an area .
Where do i say to anyone to grow P.Cyanescens indoors ? Its just another thing you have twisted . If you have the temperature its possible , but i always recomend people to do it out doors .
"What is the benefit of cloning a nice healthy mushroom onto an agar plate versus starting from multispore inoculation? "
IF...... you know the Psilocybin content of your mushroom and its high the myceleum that you grow from it will also have a good Psilocybin content ...... if grown in the same way , at the same temperature , on the same substrate as the original mushroom was grown .
What are the disadvantages of growing on agar ? What are the disadvantages of growing mono cultures and the advantages of growin from multi spore inoculations ?
The rest is to confused and childish to answer .
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
First of all you need to get your sterile techniques down. I'd say buy a spore syringe from a vendor to start. That way you know you spores are good. 4 months isn't old for spores. Spores will normally last at the very least 1 year, they often last many years.
Jars should be kept at around 20-23C. Anything over 30C is bad for them. Its called thermal death, they die from the heat and the heat encourages bacteria to grow. Thats what the funny smell is.
Don't open the jars AT ALL until they are 100% colonized. Wipe your syringe needle and lid with alcohol before injecting spores. This will kill anyting on the needle and around the hole in your lid.
Once you take the cakes out of the jar you have them in a plastic container to fruit right? With "geolite" the round clay balls right? Are you fanning the container out atleast 3 times a day? take the lid off the container and fan for about 20 seconds then mist them LIGHLTY , don't soak them with the mist.
Fresh cooked grain is NOT sterile. Bacteria make things called endospores inside themselves. They are hard spores INSIDE the bacteria cell. These can only be killed with temps over 110C!! Boiling water is only at 100C. You need a pressure cooker to sterilize grains.
How long are you boiling your jars to sterilize them? If boiling them in a pot with a lid on it you will need to boil for about 1 1/2 hrs to be sure they are good to go. If you have a pressure cooker then 45 mins will do fine. Make sure to wipe that needle with an alcohol pad or cottonball soaked in alcohol because anything in the air that might stick to that needle will just go right in with your spores.
LOWER YOUR TEMPS!!! 20-23C is what they should colonize the jars and AND thats the same temp they should be fruited in.
If you need more advice just ask what you need advice on.
Jars should be kept at around 20-23C. Anything over 30C is bad for them. Its called thermal death, they die from the heat and the heat encourages bacteria to grow. Thats what the funny smell is.
Don't open the jars AT ALL until they are 100% colonized. Wipe your syringe needle and lid with alcohol before injecting spores. This will kill anyting on the needle and around the hole in your lid.
Once you take the cakes out of the jar you have them in a plastic container to fruit right? With "geolite" the round clay balls right? Are you fanning the container out atleast 3 times a day? take the lid off the container and fan for about 20 seconds then mist them LIGHLTY , don't soak them with the mist.
Fresh cooked grain is NOT sterile. Bacteria make things called endospores inside themselves. They are hard spores INSIDE the bacteria cell. These can only be killed with temps over 110C!! Boiling water is only at 100C. You need a pressure cooker to sterilize grains.
How long are you boiling your jars to sterilize them? If boiling them in a pot with a lid on it you will need to boil for about 1 1/2 hrs to be sure they are good to go. If you have a pressure cooker then 45 mins will do fine. Make sure to wipe that needle with an alcohol pad or cottonball soaked in alcohol because anything in the air that might stick to that needle will just go right in with your spores.
LOWER YOUR TEMPS!!! 20-23C is what they should colonize the jars and AND thats the same temp they should be fruited in.
If you need more advice just ask what you need advice on.
Goran.Hrsak
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 30/3/06
- Messages
- 2 454
Thanx for info. But I do not need way's how to grow them. Found my place, on kitchen elements. There I have optimum temp. After that rest, or fruiting process which isn't superb, good enough cause only 2 flush (good flush) grow out of it. I do not have time for such care, open lids, take out cake, I do not even have vermit or perlit!!!. Clay granules are in use as U call them. :wink: I open two times "terrarium", with cake in container or "meat-chicken" lid-jar-15X10cm/6deep container.
But now I do not see any improvements! Maybe couple of shrooms will come out but this is very low amount!
How can I water cake good enough (I think that water is problem?) Who knows? Is it smart to cover cake with wet towel? Or WC paper? Wet of course!
What to do? Sorry, I cant send u pict cause I do not have cable for transmission.
Replay.
But now I do not see any improvements! Maybe couple of shrooms will come out but this is very low amount!
How can I water cake good enough (I think that water is problem?) Who knows? Is it smart to cover cake with wet towel? Or WC paper? Wet of course!
What to do? Sorry, I cant send u pict cause I do not have cable for transmission.
Replay.
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
Cyanescens grow here around the same time. They grow here once the temps drops below 17C. The thing you forgot to mention is that they respond to the drop in temperature. Once it hits 18C they start to grow until it frosts like you said. I was assuming you meant they would grow simply by it being at 18C.
I never said you never grew Panaeolus cyanescens, I said you probably didnt grow Psilocybe cyanescens indoors.
Once again I assumed you meant you were growing Panaeolus cyanescens using a cake method. I assumed this because you seem to be against spawning grain to bulk substrates. I know they need a casing. I thought you were claiming that Pans grown on cakes don't need mistings.
Spawning to unsterilized substrates IS a waste of time. Spawning to pasteurized substrates is not. A pasteurized substrate is less prone to contamination than a sterilized one is because the beneficial bacteria that survive the pasteurization will help fend off contaminates. This is why you don't see big patches of green mold growing all over your garden. In fact there is green mold in your garden dirt. The other organisms keep it in check though.
I did not twist anything about growing Psilocybe cyanescens. You never said to grow them outdoors until now. You said instead of growing cubensis they should grow cyanescens. I took that to parallel growing cubensis indoors. Many people do not live in a climate where they can grow them outdoors.
If you can grow cubensis indoors then you can also grow Panaeolus cyanescens indoors using the same temps and humidity as cubensis. It would be better to encourage people who need to grow indoors to grow Panaeolus cyanescens because they are also much stronger than cubensis and a better trip in my opinion.
There are no big disadvantages to growing on agar. If you have a wild print which will most likely have contaminates you can isolate clean mycelium on agar.
A disadvantage of growing from mono-culture is that if their food source is changed or the temps are changed then they may not perfrom as well as before. An advantage to mono-culture is that you will have even flushes and pinsets as long as their conditions are kept the same. Multispore will produce some big some small some aborts and some weak mushrooms as well as strong ones.
An advantage to multispore is that you get to see an array of phenotypes from one strain. If you are lucky the stronger mycelium may win out the battle bewteen the other and emerge forth.
However in a multispore grow the different sub-strains compete with eachother for food and water which in the end may waste some energy that could have been used to form fruits.
Seems I mis-judged you, mostly because of miscommunication. Let's let bigons be bigons and start over eh?
I never said you never grew Panaeolus cyanescens, I said you probably didnt grow Psilocybe cyanescens indoors.
Once again I assumed you meant you were growing Panaeolus cyanescens using a cake method. I assumed this because you seem to be against spawning grain to bulk substrates. I know they need a casing. I thought you were claiming that Pans grown on cakes don't need mistings.
Spawning to unsterilized substrates IS a waste of time. Spawning to pasteurized substrates is not. A pasteurized substrate is less prone to contamination than a sterilized one is because the beneficial bacteria that survive the pasteurization will help fend off contaminates. This is why you don't see big patches of green mold growing all over your garden. In fact there is green mold in your garden dirt. The other organisms keep it in check though.
I did not twist anything about growing Psilocybe cyanescens. You never said to grow them outdoors until now. You said instead of growing cubensis they should grow cyanescens. I took that to parallel growing cubensis indoors. Many people do not live in a climate where they can grow them outdoors.
If you can grow cubensis indoors then you can also grow Panaeolus cyanescens indoors using the same temps and humidity as cubensis. It would be better to encourage people who need to grow indoors to grow Panaeolus cyanescens because they are also much stronger than cubensis and a better trip in my opinion.
There are no big disadvantages to growing on agar. If you have a wild print which will most likely have contaminates you can isolate clean mycelium on agar.
A disadvantage of growing from mono-culture is that if their food source is changed or the temps are changed then they may not perfrom as well as before. An advantage to mono-culture is that you will have even flushes and pinsets as long as their conditions are kept the same. Multispore will produce some big some small some aborts and some weak mushrooms as well as strong ones.
An advantage to multispore is that you get to see an array of phenotypes from one strain. If you are lucky the stronger mycelium may win out the battle bewteen the other and emerge forth.
However in a multispore grow the different sub-strains compete with eachother for food and water which in the end may waste some energy that could have been used to form fruits.
Seems I mis-judged you, mostly because of miscommunication. Let's let bigons be bigons and start over eh?
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
- Inscrit
- 20/6/08
- Messages
- 192
Goran.Hrsak a dit:
1. You do need info on how to grow them. It seems you aren't doing it right.
2. The temps you described are not optimum! 20-23C is optimum and higher is BAD for them.
3.You do not have to take the cakes out of the terrarium. You simply fan out the air. This is called fresh air exchange. Would you like to live in a box that never gets fresh air? High CO2 levels will hinder the baby mushrooms' development and cause aborts.
4. I'm not quite sure what you are saying in number 4. Are you cakes still in the jars? Or have you taken the cakes out of the jars already? Also the cakes should not be setting directly on the clay balls (geolite, hydro-rocks whatever). You should mist them lightly everytime you fan out the terrarium, about every 6-8hrs, 3-4 times a day.
Goran.Hrsak
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 30/3/06
- Messages
- 2 454
1.OK, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE RIGHT SHROOM GROWING METHOD. FROM SOMEONE EXPERIENCED. I KNOW TO DO PF-TECK AND SOME "WILD" PF'S.
BUT REAL ONE? NO. NEVER HAVE ENOUGH TIME AND FRIEND TO USE SUCH BIG AMOUNTS OF SHROOMS. ALSO PSILOCIN IS FOR ME ENTHEOGEN WITHOUT TRUE EFFECT. IT'S NOT REAL HALLUCINOGEN. ONLY DMT IS, OR AYAHUASCA AS SAMPLE.
2.WHAT I CALL OPTIMUM TEMP? FROM 17 TO 25C°. CAUSE HERE IN CROATIA (NOW IN SUMMER TIME) ONE DAY TEMP IS 35 AND NEXT DAY 20! U CAN'T TRUST AND RELAY ON SUMMER WEATHER, CLIMATE. THIS ISN'T REAL OPTIMAL TEMP, BUT WITHOUT INCUBATOR I CAN'T ASK MORE.
3.I HAVE UNDERSTAND U THAT U TAKE OUT CAKE (FRUITING CAKE OR IN THE MIDDLE OF FLUSHING EPISODES) OUT OF TERRARIUM! :wink:
4.I TOLD U THAT I FORKED MYCELIUM OUT OF JAR, DISPERSED, ON THE LAYER OF GRANULES AND THEN COVER IT WITH ANOTHER LAYER.
ALSO CHICKEN.MEAT MEANS CASING, BOX, PLASTIC OR METAL(IN MY CASE IS ALUMINUM CASE FROM CHICKEN, CHICKEN WAS IN THAT BOX WHEN I BOUGHT CHICKEN IN STORE. EAT IT AND THEN USED THAT BOX FOR SHROOM CASE. :wink: ). USE WHAT U HAVE!
5. I OPEN TERRARIUM ONCE OR TWICE PER DAY AND THEN WAVE WITH BIG PLASTIC LID (50x30CM) TO REMOVE CO2 OUT AND FILL WITH O2.
ALSO I USE MATCHES TO SEE IF THERE IS ACTUALLY SOME CO2 EXISTING! NEVER MATCHED TURNED OF.
WHAT U SAY NOW.
ALSO DO U KNOW SOMETHING BOUT DMT-5MEO-BUFO AND PHALARIS?
BUT REAL ONE? NO. NEVER HAVE ENOUGH TIME AND FRIEND TO USE SUCH BIG AMOUNTS OF SHROOMS. ALSO PSILOCIN IS FOR ME ENTHEOGEN WITHOUT TRUE EFFECT. IT'S NOT REAL HALLUCINOGEN. ONLY DMT IS, OR AYAHUASCA AS SAMPLE.
2.WHAT I CALL OPTIMUM TEMP? FROM 17 TO 25C°. CAUSE HERE IN CROATIA (NOW IN SUMMER TIME) ONE DAY TEMP IS 35 AND NEXT DAY 20! U CAN'T TRUST AND RELAY ON SUMMER WEATHER, CLIMATE. THIS ISN'T REAL OPTIMAL TEMP, BUT WITHOUT INCUBATOR I CAN'T ASK MORE.
3.I HAVE UNDERSTAND U THAT U TAKE OUT CAKE (FRUITING CAKE OR IN THE MIDDLE OF FLUSHING EPISODES) OUT OF TERRARIUM! :wink:
4.I TOLD U THAT I FORKED MYCELIUM OUT OF JAR, DISPERSED, ON THE LAYER OF GRANULES AND THEN COVER IT WITH ANOTHER LAYER.
ALSO CHICKEN.MEAT MEANS CASING, BOX, PLASTIC OR METAL(IN MY CASE IS ALUMINUM CASE FROM CHICKEN, CHICKEN WAS IN THAT BOX WHEN I BOUGHT CHICKEN IN STORE. EAT IT AND THEN USED THAT BOX FOR SHROOM CASE. :wink:
). USE WHAT U HAVE!5. I OPEN TERRARIUM ONCE OR TWICE PER DAY AND THEN WAVE WITH BIG PLASTIC LID (50x30CM) TO REMOVE CO2 OUT AND FILL WITH O2.
ALSO I USE MATCHES TO SEE IF THERE IS ACTUALLY SOME CO2 EXISTING! NEVER MATCHED TURNED OF.
WHAT U SAY NOW.
ALSO DO U KNOW SOMETHING BOUT DMT-5MEO-BUFO AND PHALARIS?
