Murderers responsible for more than 18% of greenhouse gases

[buffachino]

The poverty of many feeds the bank accounts of few.

Industry is the anti-robin hood;
Stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

That’s profit in a nutshell; and it’s what drives us toward both total enslavement and extinction.

Were getting fatter at the cost of not only animal life, but the lives of people.

 

[Forkbender]

Take a vegetable from a plant or from the ground.

Then butcher a pig.

Note the difference.

Notice the similarity. It's both killing other lifeforms and eating them. Just because a plant doesn't scream and bleed doesn't mean it's more okay to eat them then a pig.

Most vegetables still need to be eaten to reproduce. The seeds pass through your system and grow from your shit. Unless, of course, you flush it through the toilet. :wink:

The vegetables (vegetable is a culinary term, not a botanical one) that you eat are for a large part fruits or seeds. Some are leafs, which can be replaced (not that this happens in large scale foodproduction, but hey, it can be). Some are roots which have served their function once the plant has produced seeds.

With a pig, you kill it entirely, without chance of it reproducing.

I'm not saying that it is not okay to eat animals, I'm just saying there is a difference. Once you try a vegetarian diet for a couple of months you will start to feel differently. I have. Countless others have noticed it.

Bottom line is, plants mostly benefit from being eaten, animals mostly don't.

 

[spice]

I agree.

And I am still waiting for a rebuttal to the points I had made.

Examine your own lives and childhoods and deny it, if you're able.

It's true. It is a hand-me-down dietary attitude. Most people never examine the roots of their attitudes towards lots of things, and they need to.

 

[tryptonaut]

I admire people who maintain a vegan diet, in our society it needs extreme planning and discipline to do it. I am very sure a vegan diet doesn't cause any insufficiencies (there are examples of vegan athletes, also many doctors say you can have a healthy vegan diet)
I'm even having trouble keeping to a vegetarian diet sometimes (and I still eat fish). Our society is so obsessed with putting meat into almost every dish, not even counting the hidden animal products like gelatine in sweets, jogurt...

From the viewpoint of a vegan it kills just as many calves if you drink milk than if you eat the meat of these calves. Probably right. Wearing leather shoes also gets a lot of animals killed, and I can assure you these animals are not enjoying their lifes and being killed in a humane way - because that would be way too expensive - hell not even the kids who have to sow these shoes are treated humanely by the capitalist machinery, how can we think the animals are not treated in the most cost effective way, which results in torture you wouldn't even want to hear about, let alone see it.

I'm not basically against killing animals for food, I'm only against the way it's being done. Everyhting has been optimized to keep the costs down. You can't treat animals respectfully under these circumstances.
One thing entheogens should tell us is to always respect nature, especiall the things we eat. Everything is connected, and everything we do will have consequences. By eating meat from our supermarkets and fast food stores, you support the torture and respectless treatment of animals. Male pigs are being castrated in full conscience because anesthesizing them would cost a few cents per pig and slow down the process. Just an example...

For me, a vegetarian (and not vegan) diet is already a compromise I have to make because I'm not as strong and disciplined as I'd like to be.
However I eat fish with almost no moral concerns because, I don't know, somewhere you have to draw the line. But I'd like to boycott fish as well because in a few years there will probably be no fish left in the oceans because of the way the industrial trawlers sweep everything clean. Maybe one day I will be disciplined enough to set some stricter rules on my diet, right now I am just too weak...


btw. this guy: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/imgs/a ... side31.jpg
is a physician and has been living on a vegan diet for almost 8 years now.
Vegan, not Vegetarian! No animal products whatsoever, not even honey.

 

[tryptonaut]

That's the main problem I have with most vegetarians. They say "I don't eat meat because it is cruel and disgusting to eat an animal, it was alive and someone killed it and you eat it after this".

The problem (at least for me) is not the killing of animals per se. Recently my moms cat was killed by the doctor because it was deadly sick and suffering. That was actually a humane act. I don't even have a problem with once in a while killing an animal for food. But I guess you have never seen how animals are kept, treated, transported and killed in real life mass-production? It has nothing to do with the smiling cow on the green grass that lives a happy live and is eventually killed with a clean shot through the head.

Plants, trees, even mushrooms are living beings, it's not because they can't interfere with us that we are not killing them for then eating them.

We are humans and we can only listen to our conscience. Watch a carrot being peeled - emotional reaction should usually be zero. Watch a dog being skinned alive in a Chinese fur-factory - emotional reaction should reach somewhere from crying out loud to vomiting.
I think we should listen to these emotional reactions and act according to them - if we don't, we're not human.

As I said, it's the law of nature. Not only the law of nature, but also the law of life. Destruction and rebirth.

With that argument you can justify anything from slavery to murder. With that argument the nazis actually justified the killing of Jews.

 

[Mr.Green]

Why can't we all just live off weed and baby meat?

 

[HappyMind]

Because life has more to offer than only that...

 

[Guest]

Because life has more to offer than only that...

rayer:

 

[afer]

I do agree with spice on several points.
It could be that meat is not necessary for some of us anymore. The need could have vanished, but the habit still persists. Keep in mind that our digestive system hadn't been initially designed to digest meat. But hey, a long time has passed since those times, right? Something must have changed also...
However, I don't feel like becoming a vegetarian, for I simply cannot afford it.

 

[HappyMind]

I eat meat, for the simple reason: i like it.
But i also eat fish from time to time and sometimes i do a day without meat.
Nothing really wrong with that.

 

[Dantediv86]

i quote from a study
Seeds of the plant cannabis sativa, hemp seed,
contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to
maintain healthy human life. No other single plant source has the essential
amino acids in such an easily digestible form, nor has the essential fatty acids
in as perfect a ratio to meet human nutritional needs.

The importance of hemp seed nutrients to human health cannot be fully
appreciated without some understanding of bio-chemistry in life. Unfortunately,
any attempt to understand the flow of life leads into the realm of the most
troublesome of the three infinities -- the infinitely complex.



Some deep thinkers believe life is a paradox not to be understood but
experienced to the fullest. However, the Sages have said, "Know thyself." At any
rate it is paradoxic to attempt simplifying the infinite complexity of flowing
life. Yet, it is far better for the health and development of any thinking and
feeling, uniquely individual human being, to pursue knowledge than to lounge in
ignorance.



One out of two Americans win die from the effects of cardiovascular disease (CVD).
One out of four Americans will die from cancer. Researchers believe cancers
erupt when immune system response is weakened. Pioneers in the fields of
biochemistry and human nutrition now believe CVD and most cancers are really
diseases of fatty degeneration caused by the continued over-consumption of
saturated fats and refined vegetable oils that turn essential fatty acids into
carcinogenic killers. And if this is not scary enough, more Americans are
succumbing to immune deficiency diseases than ever before. Sadly it is ignorance
of human nutritional needs that will cause this overwhelming majority of
Americans to die slowly from these afflictions -- the greatest killers in
affluent nations.





HEMP SEED PROTEINS AND THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF LIFE
AND IMMUNITY



There are eight amino acids the human body cannot make and two more the body
cannot make in sufficient quantity, so they are essential to life. A diet
without any one of them will eventually cause disease and death. These essential
amino acids, along with eleven others the body can make from them, are chained
together in accordance to genetic guidelines, via RNA formats from DNA
blueprints, into structural proteins that give body to life, and into enzymes
(globular proteins) that carry out the mechanics of living.



Nearly three quarters of body solids are proteins. The body is literally
constructed and maintained by an infinitely complex system that simply builds
proteins from amino acid sub units. Every amino acid consists of an amine and a
carboxyl bound to the same carbon atom. All but the smallest amino acid have
one, more or less complex, carbon containing side chain connected to the carbon
atom shared by the amine and carboxyl groups. The amine group, ND, is slightly
basic; the carboxyl group, COOH, is a mild acid. The amine group of one amino
acid unites with the carboxyl group of another forming a peptide link. Proteins
are made of amino acid peptide chains in specific sequences. The number of
possible amino acid peptide combinations is infinite.



Peptide chains can bend, twist and unite with other peptide chains by forming
weak hydrogen bonds between nitrogen and oxygen atoms along the chain. Amino
acids can also form bonds through side chain linkages. All three types of amino
acid bonding methods contribute to the infinite possibility of protein shapes
and reactivity potentials. Though each species builds proteins unique to itself,
life can tailor new ones if challenged by the pressures of existence.



Hemp is not unique in having all the essential amino acids in its embryonic
seed. Flax seeds also contain all the essential amino acids as do many other
seeds in the plant kingdom. What is unique about hemp seed protein is that 65%
of it is globulin edistin. That is the highest in the plant kingdom.



Globulins are one of seven classes of simple proteins. Simple proteins are
constructed from amino acids and contain no non-protein substances. Globulins
are in seeds and animal blood. Edistins are found in seeds; serum globulin is in
blood. Edistins are plant globulins. And globulins along with albumins are
classified as globular proteins. All enzymes, antibodies, many hormones,
hemoglobin and fibrogin (the body converts fibrogin into non-soluble, fibrin, a
blood clotting agent) are globular proteins. They carry out the main work of
living.



Albumin, globulin and fibrogin are the three major types of plasma proteins.
Plasma is the fluid portion of blood that supplies nutrients to tissues. And the
three protein types: serum albumin, serum globulin and fibrogin, compose about
80% of plasma solids. These plasma proteins serve as a reservoir of rapidly
available amino acids should any body tissues be in need.



Plant seeds contain albumin and globulin but no fibrogin. Albumin is the
nutritive material that fills the space in the seed between the embryo and the
seed coat. The embryo needs albumin to fuel its initial growth until
photosynthesis begins. Globulin edistins within the embryo guarantee this new
life has the enzymes necessary for metabolic activity.



Globulin is the third most abundant protein in the human body. Globulins perform
many enzymatic (causing reactions to take place) functions within the plasma
itself. More importantly, they are responsible for both the natural and acquired
immunity a person has against invading organisms. The body uses globulin
proteins to make antibodies which attack infecting agents (antigens) that invade
the body. Globulins like gamma globulin are absolutely essential to maintain a
healthy immune system. They neutralize alien microorganisms and toxins.



Globulins are divided into three classes: alpha, beta and gamma globulins. Alpha
and beta globulins operate as transport vehicles by combining with other
substances and carry protein from one part of the body to another. They haul the
materials needed to build new and replace worn or damaged bodily structures.
Gamma globulins are divided into five classes of antibodies called
immunoglobulins. All are formed to combat specific cell invading antigens. They
comprise the body's first line of defense against disease and infection.
Immunoglobulins are produced by B lymphocyte (white blood cells) plasma cell
clones located in lymph system nodes. Infecting antigens normally must pass
through the lymph system before entering the blood stream.



Regarding human protein requirement: "Qualitively, it is considered desirable to
secure amino acids similar to those of human tissues, both as to kinds and
relative quantities of the various kinds." [Textbook of Anatomy and Physiology,
Kimber, Gray, Stackpole, 1943]



During digestion proteins in food are broken down into amino acids. The amino
acids are then taken into the body and reassembled into human proteins according
to need and the availability of the amino acids necessary to make specific
proteins.



The body needs the necessary kinds of amino acids in sufficient quantity in
order to make proteins such as the globulins. Proper quantities of the right
kinds may not be available to the body much of the time. So even though the body
has enough essential amino acids available to prevent deficiency diseases, it
may not have enough to build quantities of immunoglobulins necessary for the
immune system to repel infection.



The best way to insure the body has enough amino acid material to make the
globulins is to eat foods high in globulin proteins. Since hemp seed protein is
65% globulin edistin, and also includes quantities of albumin, its protein is
readily available in a form quite similar to that found in blood plasma. Eating
hemp seeds gives the body all the essential amino acids required to maintain
health, and provides the necessary kinds and amounts of amino acids the body
needs to make human serum albumin and serum globulins like the immune enhancing
gamma globulins. Eating hemp seeds could aid, if not heal, people suffering from
immune deficiency diseases. This conclusion is supported by the fact that hemp
seed was used to treat nutritional deficiencies brought on by tuberculosis, a
severe nutrition blocking disease that causes the body to waste away.


[Czechoslovakia Tubercular Nutritional Study,
1955
end of quote

 

[Dantediv86]

do you still think you need meat to survive?

 

[Brainstormed]

Vai FRATELLO!!
with that you mean that we grow our own plants right? because cannabis seeds are quite ...ehrm... expensive.
still i don't understand how can meat be cheaper than vegetables!!! where do you buy your veggies? at the Hilton Hotel? are they coated in gold?

 

[HappyMind]

do you still think you need meat to survive?

I don't know on who you reply.
But i don't think that, i just like meat :wink:

 

[Brainstormed]

i like it too, but i'm boycotting the system at the moment so i'm eating free vegetables and i don't buy meat at all and i am super carefull about what i buy.
i think now i will start growing my own MJ plants and makes loads of seeds!!! and live out of free vegetables and free seeds!! WHOOHOO!!! thanks for the info Dante...still noone told me why vegetables are so expensive.

 

[buffachino]

That’s what I’m planning to do. Plant a bunch of hermaphrodites, and then extract the oil to consume and keep the seeds to make all kinds of nutritious meals! Seeds can even suffice as animal feed, so you can keep chickens for eggs and potentially meat if you still enjoy those things. Self sufficiency here I come.

 

[Dantediv86]

Here in Norway veggies are so friggen expensive 'cause we must import from Spain China and Italy and France. otherwise we don't have enough and most of our self grown are grown in greenhouses and the cost of those is almost like gold
meat we got plenty, lots of sheep and cows, but we don't have in mass production like in America. at least they live their own lives in the fields and stay in the stables only for the cold winter days.

 

[tryptonaut]

Vai FRATELLO!!
with that you mean that we grow our own plants right? because cannabis seeds are quite ...ehrm... expensive.

You don't have to buy the "good" hemp seeds to eat, you can get 150g edible hemp seeds for 1.99 Euro here http://veganfitness.de/product_info.php ... -BIO-.html

Still relatively expensive though.