Murderers responsible for more than 18% of greenhouse gases

[BrainEater]

well in fact i mean soy products like soy steaks, meat-like-soy many variations, soy milk, etc. but i mean you can eat stuff like rice or noodles or whatever too!! there's lots of stuff...

if you look at fatness of people, there's also an imbalance... not only in the distribution of the food,... in europe or USA there's lots of fat people... they don't need to eat so much...they just do, because they're addicted to eating...maybe 1 fat kid in germany eats the same amount of food if you can compare it at all on one day than a poor kid in maybe a week or a even a month?? crazy...

peace

 

[Guest]

forkbender, you eat beans and cheap veggies and you'll see what's waiting for you. perhaps few of you are living the shortage of money i am currently living since last july. i ate with 300€ for 6 months. when i was younger, i always searched inside the trash cans when i was on vacation with my friends with little money and too many places to visit, and i share my experience: market trash is not always nice. search in restaraunt trash and you will have a feast.
last year, i mainly ate veggies and fish. i love milk and derivatives, but i can pass without meat. this year, i have done more than enough math to know that meat is cheaper, and therefore, i have to eat it. do i like it ? i don't. it is very confortable to say that "you should do this and you should do that", and eat from your mommy's pocket, and don't have a clue how the economy is going on here in this cursed country.many people have wages about 500€, and even if you are willing to live in a dumpster with windows, you have to pay 300€. you can't go any cheaper than that without raining on the inside. as i said, i have a degree and i am earning 600€ a month. most of my friends are unemployed and living with their parents so they can suvive. people with 30, 40 years, still on their parents'.
sometimes, it is not only a matter of choice, but a matter of ability to have a choice.

 

[st.bot.32]

Soy may be a tasty treat (I love a grilled tempeh, and some mock meats as well), but is often heavily processed and I don't know how healthy it always is. I know vegans who just can't eat it.. and they are probably better off!

That's so true about eating vegan, it can be quite expensive if you are eating well.. making sure you get all your vitamins naturally instead of in supplements, (which honestly isn't as healthy). And then, at least in this part of the world, there's more the pop-culture veganism, in trendy wasteful packages, ironically enough.

In any case, I'm happy for now to reduce my meat consumption and my dairy is almost zip other than a bit of yoghurt and cheese sometimes. Most people in this part of the world consume far, far more than they need in a balanced diet (or that is literally all they eat..).

 

[No-Key]

I would pose this problematic situation to GOD as well:
The land which is required to farm vegetables is 99% of the time a former habitat for wild species, and in fact this deforestation is responsible for much more ecological damage than the factory slaughter of cows, pigs, and chickens.
So, there isn't any real way of getting around the fact that we hurt other things. We aren't Jains, we can't be, it's unrealistic, and this "choice" that we have as intelligent beings isn't so much a choice between whether we will destroy, as much as how we will destroy.

I'm not a perfect vegetarian, but I'm trying. I eat fish, chicken, and turkey, because I'm pretty sure fish don't mind it too bad, and also, I despise land fowls. I've got a physique to keep up, and you don't get kreatine from beans, and the supplementals that go with it aren't healthy.

Instead of feeling guilty and running around with the "animal murder" bullshit, I'm thankful to them. I pray for them before every meal to whatever power which consumes us all so all may live, and I thank them for the sacrifice which I'll play a role in one day too. Now, I don't like the widescale nature of the slaughter industry, I think it's out of control, and I especially hate the beef industry which I think is wasteful and destructive, but the fact of killing for sustenance is a physical evil from which nothing is truly liberated.

 

[Forkbender]

There are other ways of agriculture (i.e. permaculture, biodynamic agriculture) that do respect the land and how it is naturally and just take the surplus to feed humans. However, this is hard to implement as we are basically stuck in our old ways of monoculture and spraying toxins on our food.

 

[Brainstormed]

I've got a physique to keep up, and you don't get kreatine from beans, and the supplementals that go with it aren't healthy.

just making you notice that kreatine is synthetised by the liver in every vertebrate from arginine
arginine is found in : wheat germ and flour, buckwheat, granola, oatmeal, nuts (coconut, pecans, cashews, walnuts, almonds, Brazil nuts, hazel nuts, peanuts), seeds (pumpkin, sesame, sunflower), chick peas, cooked soybeans, chocolate.

does that suit you?

really people i dunno about your countries but here in this country we are better off eating vegetables than meat, due to expenses
i'm a vegetarian and i pay attention to the kind of foods i buy (never will i buy soy products) and i know many farmers that have their own garden and often have a surplus of vegetables i get many for free and often don't need to buy at the market or supermarket, and i'm sure they don't spray with noxious poisons.
i too don't get a very high salary and still live with my parents. i haven't eaten meat for ages and my parents eat it once a month. we stopped eating birdmeat too. and we are quite fine none of us suffer from deficiensies of any kind and we don't need any integrator to sustain our lifestyle
you just gotta be less lazy.

PS i'm the one, in my family, who brings the food home for real.

 

[Dantediv86]

well lucky you here in Norway you hafta pay gold to get vegetables
lambmeat is the cheapest of all here.

 

[afer]

I surmise that someone is making lot of $$$ out of this "veg stream". All these "meat-substitutes" wouldn't cost soo much if people weren't so crazy about this subject. It's fasnionable to be a veg now, isn't it? And fashion equals money.
Endless articles on heart strokes, obesity, cholesterol levels..."Independent research", they name it. Don't these articles resemble something? :roll:

 

[BrainEater]

hey you're right it's fuckin' sick with all the promotion shit that started for veg and bio-products... i fuckin hate that...though maybe's a good step for many people eating healthy food, but i wouldn't think it were good if it went ahead with creating more "production spaces" and therefore destroying land. i mean we live on this planet and can't yet emigrate to other planets so we probably should think about what we do to our homeplanet and maybe care for it.

i've been to thailand and there are lots of vegetarian people too...there are loads of vegeterian sects too. you can go to their temples and get vegetarian food for free ... man there's so much fucking delicious stuff to eat!! also maybe it's there a bit because of buddhism, because of karma and everything and more caring for other beings...though for sure there are also people there, that don't care at all..

 

[st.bot.32]

Yeah I have a friend who lived in India for a while and it sounds like the food was heaven And of course, unlike our Indian restaraunts a lot of it is basically vegetarian, or vegan. (Beef curry? Not in India..!)

Also it's true, I've lived in parts of the world where, if you were a vegetarian, you would be living on canned vegetables and overpriced dubious iceberg lettuce. :-/ Ick!

 

[Dantediv86]

And of course, unlike our Indian restaraunts a lot of it is basically vegetarian, or vegan. (Beef curry? Not in India..!)

maybe they are pakistani? they are mostly muslim

however you could be a vegetarian without following the FASCIon (git it? git it?)
you could be vegetarian 'cause you actually believe in it and you have a set of morals resembling those of Buddhism or Hinduism.....
i must say i hate those pseudo-hippies who are being "environmentally friendly" by eating that capitalistic crap they sell in supermarkets as substitues for meat!!!

 

[Brainstormed]

yeah! like that!! i've become vegetarian because i can't stand the cruelties done to the animals
one of my uncles is a butcher and once he showed me how to kill a cow
i was 10
i could not eat meat eversince and from then i also discovered more and more animal cruelties.

 

[Faust]

How do you justify eating plants or parts of plants though? Surely they don't enjoy that.

Actually, most fruit bearing trees need their fruit to be eaten to procreate. Plus the shit that you produce is good for the ground, so that future plants will grow more easily.

Yeah but what about vegetables? You mostly yank them out of the ground and kill them and then eat them. Isn't that just as harsch as killing an animal?

 

[Forkbender]

Take a vegetable from a plant or from the ground.

Then butcher a pig.

Note the difference.

 

[VerusDeus]

Yeah we could all stop eating veggies to, cause it's so cruel. Then we'd all be on a soil-diet?

The thing is we need to find balance in how much we eat, what we eat, how we produce it.

Because nature relies on the fact that it's organisms feed on eachother, it's just that we have ruined the balance.

When I was in America we were driving down a freeway near San Francisco and we drove by literally thousands of cows, and that stinks a lot. They have near to no living space whatsoever, and they live next to a fucking freeway. It's both sad and very bad for the environment.

 

[Faust]

Take a vegetable from a plant or from the ground.

Then butcher a pig.

Note the difference.

Notice the similarity. It's both killing other lifeforms and eating them. Just because a plant doesn't scream and bleed doesn't mean it's more okay to eat them then a pig.

 

[BrainEater]

well i think you got to consider that vegetable are same like fruits..they are fruits... so they are being made of the plant for the reason to be eaten. for spreading the seeds... i mean you could say too that animals are made for being eaten as there are non-plant-lifeforms that take other non-plant-lifeforms as meals. but anyway i think fruits serve exactly the purpose as stated above and the plants work together with animals etc. to achieve the spreading of their seeds. of course they are made tasty or eatable so that the animals care for their fruits.

Peace!

 

[ararat]

I think the "is it natural to eat meat"-discussion does not mean very much nowadays... I don't consider our ways of life "natural" anyway.

and yes, vegetables and fruits actually want to be eaten, in order to spread the seeds, that's the thing. there are no cow or chicken seeds to be spread :>

I think it's just unjustifiable to eat meat every day, especially at mcdonalds or any other random "restaraunt".

furthermore, I don't like the idea of actually eating animals.
would you eat dog or cat meat?

 

[spice]

Scientifically, that is called a symbiotic relationship; both parties derive benefit.

How can anyone say the same about chopping animals up for convenience?

That sounds a LOT more like parasite behaivour to me.....especially when you do it and you have a choice. And deride others who choose not to do it...

The bottom line is that EVERY child asked these quewstions at one point, and the adults all were quick to embark on a 'de-sensitization crusade' to quickly drum any kind, caring attitude about animals out of that young, inquisitive head.

American Cancer Society says meat rich diets are 'promoters of cancer'

American Heart Association says meat is heart disease.....

At one point, eating meat was an evolutionary necessity, and it was probably what saved us from extinction as a race, but it is now MAL-ADAPTIVE, and we, as thinking, caring ( some of us) beings owe it to the planet ( anyone who doesn't understand, please, ask) to eductae ourselves and stop this shit.

Just as a child sucks its thumb in infancy ,with no detrimental effect, at some point, the thumb sucking must stop, or there will be negative effects.

There are health consequences to eating a meat-rich diet.

No amount of propaganda, or coercive de-sensitization can make that untrue.....

Also, I remember reading earlier in this thread that someone was concerned with their body not being able to retain mass and strength
on veggies...ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, that, I can personally attest to.
Disinformation, pure and simple.

You can make your body release larger-than-normal amounts of HGH by adding arginine and ornithine amino acid supplements at bedtime....

This is safe, bio-feedback regulated HGH produced by your body....
not a syringe full of chinese-mystery-genetic-engineered HGH.

There is a lot of disinfo to undo, and a lot of propaganda.

OKAY, then, carnivores, and their defenders, where is YOUR line in the sand?

Will you still be eating that shit when they allow cloned meat and milk to be sold, unlabeled and unregulated?

Do you really believe that a culture that can't even make medicines safely ( because of the eye toward profit) is going to do the long term studies necessary to really show if consuming these products is safe?

Do you really, REALLY trust these people that much?

 

[Psychoid]

How do you justify eating plants or parts of plants though? Surely they don't enjoy that.

That's the main problem I have with most vegetarians. They say "I don't eat meat because it is cruel and disgusting to eat an animal, it was alive and someone killed it and you eat it after this". Plants, trees, even mushrooms are living beings, it's not because they can't interfere with us that we are not killing them for then eating them.

As I said, it's the law of nature. Not only the law of nature, but also the law of life. Destruction and rebirth.