Life: not that rare

[phalaris]

I've said this before; sometimes packaged, sometimes ranted, sometimes literally;

Scientists are people too, nothing more, nothing less. They are (just?) people who try to use the scientific method. Some of these people are rigid in their thinking, some are not; but all the different personalities have their place in the community.


Another thing:

'science' as a noun is somewhat misleading. But is shorter and easier to use this word (in writing of popular articles) then 'the current consensus amongst the group of people using the scientific method'.

Try reading an original scientific paper instead of a snippet of a summary of a summary that trickles through into popular literature. You'll see that is states the findings of the researchers much more humble, and it is often plainly admitted that the researchers have no final answer to some result/phenomenon either.

and yeah, it is a said thing when someone looses the spark of life/enjoyment/enthausiams and becomes a Gray Man.

But I do not think this is something specific for scientists, it is a human condition.

If is a human condition to be happy and enjoy life, then it also human to be gray and be lived.

Sorry it wasnt a very good explanation of what i`m trying to say , please use your brains and try to translate it so it makes sense to you .

LOL !

 

[Guest]

dante, i guess we are vibrating by sympathy, acustically speaking
perhaps when you read my post, you got the idea that i hate science and scientists. that's not so, i only hate the place that it currently has on the society, and the persons it possesses, like a demon. but also religion does that, and drugs, and any job or philosophical school. i belive that christianity in the beggining had a great posture towards the world, and held nice perspectives the world were it was formed. then, it grew like a mutation to what it is today. science also had a great idea, and its method is simple and effective. but it grew (and is growing) to a monster. as we can see, it is ruining our world, allied with economic and govermental interests. does that remind you of the politics of middle ages ? the state was together with church. because it benefited both. the same with science. that's what i am speaking about. people that turn grey, as phalaris so beautifully said, were perhaps going to be lost anyway. they are people that don't fight and think for themselves because they don't have the strength, or simply never been taught that way.
so i feel we are in the same wavelength. inshallah you are never lose yourself. and please disagree with me, it turns things much more interesting and we both learn something, don't treat me like a wiseman because i am not one.

GOD - if you are speaking about that girlfriend of mine, we were 16 or 17 back then, so we both saw things from our own perspective and nothing more. i explained that situation because i think it was better to understand what i was trying to tell. adults may see the world as a group, or a conflict of larger groups. but does a man that does not question a group get hung up on the herd behaviour and gets gray (thanks again phalaris, this word solves a lot of explanation) ? looking at stuff from a different angle...why do we have the need to group ? we begin at being self-centered, and late at life, a person is neither self-centered or group-oriented. one is only interested in making peace and sharing knowledge. still, i have the feeling that one spends his life seaching for balance, and always fails to see that the equillibrium is already acheived. groups, us and knowledge don't really matter per se, but as powertools that one has to spend and use in his life. it is like having a piece of raw wood. you make what you want of her, and the tools you can have, give you new options of graving, sawing and glueing. but in the end, what's the point of making anything ? perhaps the difference between the raw wood and the thing you imagined. a bit like the archetype theory of our Eleusian friend Plato.


phalaris - perhaps the true scientists are in much smaller numbers than the fanatics that want to ride shuttles to alpha centauri FAST! you said a thing that i really liked (apart from the gray man):

If is a human condition to be happy and enjoy life, then it also human to be gray and be lived.

this is so true. but that leads us to the objective of being human. are we meant to be happy or grey ? does that even matter ? or are we supposed to know, like all the animals seem to know, that we are our body and there's nothing more to it ? science was not meant, IMHO, from what i have read of descartes book "A Discourse on Method", a way to control the universe. we see everyday news about "the space conquest", nanotech and s million BS. the problem is not on science, simply meant to understand and make sense of everything, but lies within us, trying to conquer and slaughter everything that we get our hands on. from that kubrick's 2001 monkey with the bone until when ? last night, i had this nice dream of the big crunch (the inverse of big bang) had started, and all the people were freaking out, because there was no where to run to. and still, they were trying to control the universe so they could live more and more. i wouldn't be suprised if it were so.
scientists are also people, as you said. so, why do we care so much for it ? because it makes life easier for us to dominate things. from the dust in our house to candybars and jupiter. that's the main problem here. we don't care as much for the street sweeping, that is also done by humans (not for long, i'm affraid) as we do for technology.

 

[spice]

Well, nothing really remains static, and a good scientist realizes this.

Not-so-good scientists don't, hence scientific dogma....

Dogma is merely a hand-me-down attitude wearing Sunday clothes, and it acquires a kind of armor (!) by repetition, and tradition.

It is said that only the great scientific minds can endure doubt, mediocre ones grab onto theories and postulates, and absolutize them, trying to stamp the law of man on the ever changing reality we are planted in.....since there is too much going on for any one mind to fully grasp, every scientist chooses an area to focus his awareness on, and in doing so, in the act of focusing, he loses his scientific 'peripheral vision' , and sometimes, he loses his way.

Western science has made great discoveries by just delving further into the realms Newton uncovered with observation, and is attempting to explore the so-called quantum realm, with limited success.....by the act of specialization.

Western science, until recently, has not really had the benefit of psychedelic scientists, but I believe that the exponential explosion of scientific advancement is somehow related to ever expanding awareness, even if only indirectlly.

Surely, it would be beyond stupid to deny that science has been used to evil purposes, it has, by MY definition, but my definition is an abstraction, and it is only one, in a sea of abstractions.


Is science shortsighted?

In practice, yes, by definition, no.....and to define that, I mean that as long as we, the people, allow science to be chained to commerce, we get the payola that ignorance earns; mediocre results, concealed information....sanitized data flow...

Why is it so difficult to comprehend ( for some ) that science has no inherent qualities, if it yielded crappy results, it had crappy inputs.

GIGO at its best.

The term 'Scientist' will undoubtedly undergo evolution, too.

I think it is BEYOND egotistical, and way beyond dumb, to think we are the only life form in the universe.

Seriously, that question ALONE is a good barometer of character for anyone you meet in the real world; ask them what they think.....and you can really understand what level they are approaching reality from....quickly.

As long as we are chained to the ego, scientists name will be stained. Whether the manifesting of that ego is through the lens of commerce, or militarization, our potential is shorted and we are deprived.

Don't kill the messenger.

 

[GOD]

"GOD - if you are speaking about that girlfriend of mine"

No , i wasnt . I ment generaly , about peopel who say everything scientists say is right , blind faith like a religeon . I like things to be rational and provable but i also believe in things that i cant prove . For example what Buff said :-

"That’s all existence is. The infinite reincarnation of the one entity into countless forms, from which it can understand who it is. The ego is the shell for these incarnations, and is the means by which each consecutive experience is coloured."



"It is said that only the great scientific minds can endure doubt, mediocre ones grab onto theories and postulates, and absolutize them"

 

[silv]

I think it is BEYOND egotistical, and way beyond dumb, to think we are the only life form in the universe.

I want to just emphasize this point more because I think this is SO absolutely true!
Even though I think Statistics are for people who worship satan (*note irony*) even statistics show that it would be foolish to think we are the only ones, simply because the probability of a planet having life on it is really small. But the universe is on a human standard infinite (on a scientific standard it's not sure yet i think?). And that means that there will be more planets with life on them. I'd be highly surprised though if it resembles life on earth in only the smallest way!