Is the psilocin experience a DMT experience?

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Is there someone here who can answer this question? I'm not entirely sure about it.

Hey Ivar,

After posting the bulletin with your video w/captions, i had a couple of people post comments on there disputing what i was saying...

now i'm no chemist... but here's what i thought from everything i've read on psilocybin, dmt, ayahuasca, etc.

i thought that because N-N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE (dmt) was in psilocybin, that "dmt" was an active ingredient. actually, that's what i still believe.

i had written (not mistakenly; just wasn't about the topic) that "DMT is the active ingredient in magic mushrooms" where I should have said, 'Psilocybin' is the active ingredient...

so a couple (one smart assed 18 year old) told me that dmt had nothing to do with psilocybin.

after all i've read, am i wrong ? i have totally understood that it was after the breakdown of psilocybin, that it was the DMT within psilocybin that caused the journey.

Below is how i rephrased the paragraph:

PSILOCYBIN is the active ingredient in "Magic Mushrooms" -- after being ingested, the body removes a phosphorous atom from the PSILOCYBIN, converting it to 'PSILOCIN'. ("PSILOCIN differs from DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE [DMT] by only one oxygen. I like to think of psilocybin/psilocin as 'orally active DMT' " -- quote by Dr. Rick Strassman, author of "DMT, The Spirit Molecule"

So my question is... am i wrong in believing that DMT is what eventually, after breakdown, the 'element' that becomes active due to psilocybin containing mushrooms ?

 

[cockknocker]

I dunno, but psilocin is 4-HO-DMT (4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine), so maybe.

 

[druglessdouglas]

oraly active DMT. ive never done DMT but it would seem to be essentialy true. there will be some differences in effect but Aya and smoked DMT are different in effect. its not a bad assumption

 

[GOD]

DMT is DMT and Psilocin is Psilocin . Two different things , two different highs .

 

[ophiuchus]

well since psilocin is called 4-HO-DMT... technically, you can call it dmt if you want, what it really should be considered, is an analog of the dmt which we regularly speak of... very very interesting point though, this is new information to me.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

But what ends up in the synapses: psilocyn or DMT? Is psilocyn broken down before it exerts its psychedelic effect, or afterwards?

 

[HeartCore]

My own experience on a crazy night with 140 grams fresh mushrooms, I encountered a 'place' which was exactly as the place I had been a week before that on a DMT breakthrough. I remember realizing that the only difference was, that the DMT visuals where more intense in color, like they had an extra glow, or an extra powersupply, not sure what metaphor to use here. For the rest, I was amazed by the similarities.

This effect happened when the peak was building and lasted maybe 10 minutes. After that I remember coming more down to a plateau which I never experienced on mushrooms. It was like the ayahuasca stories I read, going places, flying place etc.. I remember while my body was on the couch on the living room, I, me was completely someplace else. A city I didn't recognize, sitting at a river with one of my best friends, looking at an Italian style bridge maybe 500 meter away. All of this is still almost crystal clear in my mind except... I could not tell who that friend was if my life depended on it.

Ofcourse this is all subjective

I remember uncle Terence saying at one time that while DMT and psilocybin are similar, different pathways in the brain are used but I don't have anything to back that up.

A friend from the states who helped me years ago doing my first DMT extraction claims to have extracted smokable psilocybin/cin from mushrooms. He found the experiences with smoked DMT and psilocybin very much the same and could not mention specific differences.

 

[GOD]

Psilocin or DMT depending on what you took .

Afterwards .

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

140 grams ?!

What were you expecting ? *rofl*

 

[Meduzz]

DMT is DMT and Psilocin is Psilocin . Two different things , two different highs .

Exactly. But I remember you saying that if you'd give a person psilocin or LSD he wouldn't know the difference? "a trip is a trip is a trip"? Do you change your opinion or is there a nuance? Or maybe I don't remember well

 

[ophiuchus]

But what ends up in the synapses: psilocyn or DMT? Is psilocyn broken down before it exerts its psychedelic effect, or afterwards?

i would like to know more about this as well.

Ahuaeynjxs, remember 140 gr *fresh*. that'll equal out (im not a pro here) to about 15 or so gr dried. still intense as shit i would bet though

 

[GOD]

The two substances make high in diferent ways........ in the brain .

I said that i had read that if people were injected with DMT , Psilocybin or LSD that they couldnt say what they had had . I said i thought that i would know by the length of the experience at least .

 

[st.bot.32]

it's strange, i've heard this too, even before i tried mushrooms the first time. but i found that even tho psilocybin and lsd have remarkably similar effects there are some very obvious differences.. eg on lsd i frequently see complex geometric patterns slowly shifting about, on shrooms these distortions are more like crystal structures.. the cevs seem to be quite different as well, with shrooms i sometimes get the flat, twisting 2d mandala, acid is completely different for me.. also i find the latter far more psychoanalytical. and i've never had synesthesia off mushrooms like i've had off of acid

i volunteer to do a double-blind test anytime in the interest of science

 

[druglessdouglas]

140 grams?
good man.

the fear is the fear of the fear. when you take a proper dose you are too busy for the fear.

PUSH

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

EDIT: see InnerMysteries post on the next page. 8)

 

[InnerMysteries]

Namaste' Everyone,

I was the person who originally asked this question of Ivar.

I wrote to Rick Strassman yesterday and this was his reply:

*************

"Hi Bob:

Psilocybin is the primary ingredient in magic mushrooms. It's dephosphorylated in the body into psilocin, which is the active form of psilocybin. There's only an oxygen difference between DMT and psilocin, but they are different compounds. As far as I know, there's no DMT in magic mushrooms.

Hope that helps.

Rick"

************

What is obvious from replies here, this is a topic that not everyone is clear on. Well, Rick's answer cleared it up for me and hope it has for everyone else also.

Thanks for all of your replies and Happy Solstice !

peace*love, bob

 

[st.bot.32]

this topic is really interesting.. at the same time a single atom can make a difference in effects. look at some mescaline-based phenylethylamines like 2ci, 2cb, etc

4-HO-DMT
5-HO-DMT
4,5-MDO-DMT
5,6-MDO-DMT
5-MeO-DMT
5-MeS-DMT

all from tihkal of course..

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Hi Bob, cool to see you here!

 

[GOD]

High Bob..........




one of us was right ?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

High Bob..........




one of us was right ?

Well, I just noticed Bob posting about it in a bulletin, writing "ALSO, I contacted Ivar and he posted my question on the following site, and you can see at the site that it was not totally clear, although the profile there called "God" got it right."