Indigo children...

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I meant the total of available knowledge because that's what I discussed at first: that children born in the modern age have much more accurate information to their disposal than previous generations had.

 

[Forkbender]

Don't forget that there is also a lot of misinformation around. Google LSD for example. By the way, noone has access to all available knowledge just because noone understands everything.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I know, lots of disinformation! And like I mentioned earlier: more distraction too, in the form of games, TV stations etc.

 

[Forkbender]

so precisely how can they distinguish between genuine knowledge and disinformation?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

so precisely how can they distinguish between genuine knowledge and disinformation?

That's another matter. I think genuine knowledge is self-luminous, recognizable to sincere truth seekers. The most important thing is that it's there. By nature, if nurtured and nourished properly, a human being is a truth seeker. Because there are now more options available as far as type of childbirth, parenting methods and educational systems are concerned, more and more children are going to be born happily and curiously into this world of information, and be able to find their way intuitively. They are the spiritual wizkids referred to as indigo children etc.

 

[Forkbender]

I think genuine knowledge is self-luminous, recognizable to sincere truth seekers.

so the availability of (genuine) knowledge isn't enough, which is what I was saying to begin with.

The most important thing is that it's there. By nature, if nurtured and nourished properly, a human being is a truth seeker. Because there are now more options available as far as type of childbirth, parenting methods and educational systems are concerned, more and more children are going to be born happily and curiously into this world of information, and be able to find their way intuitively. They are the spiritual wizkids referred to as indigo children etc.

Seeking truth is indeed very important, and I think that knowledge is created by the sincerity of the truth seekers and their compassion to share it with others.

I still don't entirely get the role knowledge plays in all of this, because what my psychedelic journeys have showed me, is that knowledge can only obscure if it doesn't emanate from your own heart into your own brain/mind. Only wisdom helps anyone become a better person, knowledge doesn't.

 

[Ganesha]

I think with the growth of compassion worldwide, we have a growth of knowledge and ultimately wisdom. Yes, I do believe in some collective spiritual evolution. I consider myself lucky to be a part of it and am curious in general to what is going to happen next. Maybe it is only a projection of my own desires and beliefs on reality and it is just some illusion, but it is interesting none the less.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

so the availability of (genuine) knowledge isn't enough, which is what I was saying to begin with.

Of course the knowledge must be put into practice, but when people do that, and have children, their children will quickly learn about all kinds of things, and that knowledge has a snowball effect. And the more snowballs rolling around on the internet and educational circles, the more ignorance and disinformation will be crushed under their weight. As they say in the East, satyam eva jayate: the truth will conquer.

I still don't entirely get the role knowledge plays in all of this, because what my psychedelic journeys have showed me, is that knowledge can only obscure if it doesn't emanate from your own heart into your own brain/mind. Only wisdom helps anyone become a better person, knowledge doesn't.

I believe that when a person is exposed to the right type of knowledge, it sooner or later turns into wisdom, which gives rise to genuine love and compassion. It seems you're saying it's the other way around.

 

[Forkbender]

Nice way to put it, Ganesha!

I believe that when a person is exposed to the right type of knowledge, it sooner or later turns into wisdom, which gives rise to genuine love and compassion. It seems you're saying it's the other way around.

I don't think love and compassion are the result of knowledge, that is what I say and have been saying. I would say what you are saying like this:

Translation into forks out of cms:
I believe that when a person is exposed to the right type of knowledge, his love and compassion take in that knowledge and turn it into wise action, which is an expression of aforementioned love and compassion.

Haven't you noticed that the most unloving and uncompassionate people never believe a word of reason? Doesn't matter their intelligence, they just turn facts into fictions.

 

[Ganesha]

Haven't you noticed that the most unloving and uncompassionate people never believe a word of reason? Doesn't matter their intelligence, they just turn facts into fictions.

:lol:

I suppose you were not just talking about politicians? Turning facts into fictions is something of a behavioral pattern of humanity. It helps them get through the day without noticing their own misery, turning a blind eye on themselves and forgetting all about their own dreams of freedom.

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies. :rock:

But I agree with your general definition of wisdom as acting out of compassion. At the same time, I think Caduceus has a big point when he says that genuine knowledge is only that knowledge that takes into account all the effects of a certain idea. It takes it to its full consequences in which our love and compassion are inspired to judge this knowledge as either true or untrue. Being the change we want to see in the world starts with choosing what kind of knowledge we accept as genuine and what as a problem.

 

[Forkbender]

lol

and yes, I agree.

 

[Forkbender]

Barry Schwartz on our loss of wisdom

Barry Schwartz makes a passionate call for "practical wisdom" as an antidote to a society gone mad with bureaucracy. He argues powerfully that rules often fail us, incentives often backfire, and practical, everyday wisdom will help rebuild our world.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I don't think love and compassion are the result of knowledge, that is what I say and have been saying.

Then what are love and compassion rooted in? What gives rise to them?

Haven't you noticed that the most unloving and uncompassionate people never believe a word of reason? Doesn't matter their intelligence, they just turn facts into fictions.

I never said anything about intelligence. But it just confirms what I said. The reason why unloving people don't believe a word of reason, is that they lack the knowledge (an internal network of information and realizations based on experience) to appreciate and understand words of reason. Remember the snowball effect I mentioned? Unless there is knowledge to begin with, new knowledge will not stick, and the snowball effect does not occur. That's why ignorant people tend to remain ignorant, as well as unloving, and thus a nuisance to the world.

 

[Forkbender]

Then what are love and compassion rooted in? What gives rise to them?

God, the Void, consciousness, etc.

The reason why unloving people don't believe a word of reason, is that they lack the knowledge (an internal network of information and realizations based on experience) to appreciate and understand words of reason. Remember the snowball effect I mentioned? Unless there is knowledge to begin with, new knowledge will not stick, and the snowball effect does not occur. That's why ignorant people tend to remain ignorant, as well as unloving, and thus a nuisance to the world.

I don't think they lack the knowledge to appreciate and understand words of reason, I think they don't trust other people to give them information they need. They are preoccupied with themselves and only take from the gift of knowledge what is useful to them, which, when knowledge gets more complex, isn't much. If they would start loving, it would change their outlook and they would appreciate knowledge as a means to act more wisely.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

God, the Void, consciousness, etc.

Hm, I disagree. Or let's say I consider that an oversimplification.

I don't think they lack the knowledge to appreciate and understand words of reason, I think they don't trust other people to give them information they need. They are preoccupied with themselves and only take from the gift of knowledge what is useful to them, which, when knowledge gets more complex, isn't much. If they would start loving, it would change their outlook and they would appreciate knowledge as a means to act more wisely.

That sounds quite speculative.

 

[Forkbender]

Maybe it is speculative, but it makes sense to me. Your idea that knowledge is a prerequisite for love/compassion does not. Knowing something fully doesn't preclude you from using it to your own advantage/protecting the knowledge from spreading/keeping things to yourself. This is perhaps a lack of self-knowledge, in which case you could say: 'see you need more knowledge', but as I said before, complete knowledge isn't possible because we don't have eyes on the back of our heads.

In your view: where is knowledge rooted in?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

In your view: where is knowledge rooted in?

In very tangible places: the brains, words and actions of our parents and teachers, in the libraries, on the internet, in other words in the culture (or subculture) we grow up in.

 

[Forkbender]

Perhaps I should have asked: What happens inside a human being when he gets to know something?

 

[BrainEater]

you are good at talking at cross-purposes. did i say that right??

 

[Forkbender]

Hehehe :lol: