indefinite pause from trips

[st.bot.32]

I'm all for the placebo myself, it's better to get people back on their feet than having them freak out. Psychedelics can be great healers but you have to play it by ear. One size, one rule does not fit all. Especially when the parties involved aren't super experienced, a "bad" experience might not be all that helpful. One inexperienced person tries to help the other and might only make the situation worse.

Nothing wrong with a difficult trip, but until you are more familiar with psychedelics, you can totally get confused about what's going on.

I remember one time I took a good dose of mushrooms, when they kicked in I was still in control (I've never lost control during a trip) but I was completely debilitated.. I had to be alone. I snuck away from people and laid down feeling sudden waves of negative energy and stress. Just sat in a corner watching the mandala pattern thinking "why am I doing this to myself"

20 mins later someone (a very experienced tripper) found me and noticed I was chilled.. gave me a sweater, talked me into standing up and within minutes I was totally fine. Nothing came out of that negative experience other than some very cool funky visuals. No deep personal insights. All it was: I was cold. My body was interpreting the chill in a way I wasn't familiar with. And not knowing my senses could interpret the cold that way, I hadn't even thought of it. We learn by doing. Thankfully there was someone experienced with me that time or I might have sat there for quite a while

Oh yeah, that person also tried the orange juice trick on me (it might make you come down slightly faster but certainly not immediately). Even during the trip I knew it was a placebo but I went with it because I appreciated the person was trying to cheer me up. That meant a lot to me at the time

 

[Forkbender]

I agree that it might be dangerous to take a psychedelic without a sitter. However, I also think we must take into account the numbers: how often does it go wrong? From seeing dozens and dozens of people take a trip in public places, I know that most of the time there won't be a problem. If there is a problem, a sensitive person probably could've seen it coming for ages.

They will probably trip in a public park on a sunny day. I just hope it rains, because then they'll stay inside.

About the manipulation-part: I think you are right, it is not cool to deceive someone. However, I'd rather deceive someone into believing the door is open to return to happyville than rely on him being able to do it by himself. Honestly, I don't think he can do it in an unsafe environment. He's taking a bet and I cannot stop him from taking a bet, I can only explain the options.

 

[Forkbender]

It is indeed a sticky situation, I'll open a separate topic about these things.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Especially when the parties involved aren't super experienced, a "bad" experience might not be all that helpful.

True, but I wasn't talking about a bad experience, but bad feelings. There's nothing wrong with having uncomfortable or scary feelings. If a person is having such sensations, distracting them isn't always useful or beneficial. By simply focusing on what's really bothering them, they will resolve it quickly and gain a much deeper and lasting level of tranquility and happiness than if they were 'succesfully' distracted.

20 mins later someone (a very experienced tripper) found me and noticed I was chilled.. gave me a sweater, talked me into standing up and within minutes I was totally fine.

Now that sounds like excellent sitting to me. Although not all shivering has to do with bodily temperature (all kind of tremors can occur during psychedelic states of mind), it seems that simply by his taking care of your physical wellbeing you could regain your sense of composure.

From seeing dozens and dozens of people take a trip in public places, I know that most of the time there won't be a problem.

True. It's just that when it does go wrong, it can go so terribly wrong (mental problems, physical injury) and we all suffer the consequences (the last thing we want is a ban on truffles for example).

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'll point something out, and remember, I'm one of those "sensitive" trippers. I get scared, and go very deep quickly.

I realized that I can do a sort of emotional block, then change direction. Example: I read this in a book, and feel free to try it, any time you wish, because it's a blatant fact. Smiling makes you happy.

If you smile, even if feeling bad, even if you are emotionally dead, it will make you feel happy. If even for a moment. To me this moment is key, if I'm feeling like I'm trapped in a bad trip, and it's getting to deep to logically come out, what I have to do is stare directly at 8 hours in the future, think of my sober self, and smile. It will first, bring you out of the bad trip, then it is up to you to steer your way back on a level path.

I am a very good sober sitter. My friends know this, and enjoy my presence alot (except for the one who believe alot of stigma) "Oh man sober people just give me bad vibes dude..."

I am very good with the sober mind, but anything more hollows everything, but atleast I can handle it now.

 

[Forkbender]

^sounds like you found a good way. I'll tell my friend to ask his brother to smile when he feels bad and wants to end it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

^sounds like you found a good way. I'll tell my friend to ask his brother to smile when he feels bad and wants to end it.

Your friend is key here. Tell him to NEVER worry. Worrying makes the "bad" trip become dominant. Let your friend know he is in control, and to be confident. If you are a sitter, confidence in safety is a must. Tell him to stay on top, and to be confident. Confident. That's what one needs when they sit.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

because it's a blatant fact. Smiling makes you happy.

Yes, this is true. About a decade ago I read about an exercise which involved smiling for a minute or more every morning. You can do this by simply saying "eeeee" (in Dutch "iiiiii"). Your face may start hurting the first couple of days, but then your smiling muscles will become stronger, which is of course a good thing. I never forgot about this exercise, and smile whenever I get the chance. I haven't tried it during challenging phases of my trips though.

"Oh man sober people just give me bad vibes dude..."

LOL, yes, that's a popular myth.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'll start doing that smiling excercise. I belive being happy is just excercise for the mind, don't over do it, and pills aren't a substitute, but in itself, it is very rewarding.

 

[????????]

He should have known the answer to that question long before

he knew it lasted several hours. when he asked how to stop it he was actually curious if there was a way to do it.

about the supposed antidote i realized i was thinking of a so called antipsychotic like thorazine or risperidone.

Thorazine and other major tranquillizers are not specific neutralizers of the LSD effect. Used in high dosages, they have a general inhibiting effect that overrides and masks the psychedelic action of LSD. Detailed retrospective analysis of this situation usually shows that the patient experiences the action of both drugs simultaneously, and that the combined effect is rather unpleasant.

yeah... i was wrong. i think that quote is from that book you read/are reading from Stan Grof. i think my confusion comes from reading about Lilly (i think) keeping them in a case with his lsd and k.

Distracting

before that i tried addressing him directly and telling him he was going to be fine since lots of people've been through it and that the worse physical effect he could expect was puking. and he seemed to understand and showed agreement, even laugh, but then after a few moments he'd just revert to being uncomfortable like what i had just said was forgotten. this happened several times. so then i tried shifting the focus off of him for a change.

i think a proper sitter is not an easy thing to find and a lot of apparent stubbornness from future trippers comes from considering their options and seeing that they just don't have the appropriate person in their social circles. i know no one here would object if for example Stan Grof was the sitter!

 

[Brugmansia]

I never had a sitter actually but nor I ever did an outdoor trip. I get distanted from the external world during the peak, becoming speechless and staring in order to get the inner perspective flowing into any random direction.

Usually when the come down is present I'm having a bicycle ride outside through the nature, there's always this sensual after glow and a deep state of relaxtion.

When I feel there's a great discomfort due to too much processing information, I get down, trying briefly to reflect back on the moment I had consumed the substance, and think 'You wanted this yourself'. That usually comforts me a lot, although I must admit I'm not sure or this will work if I'm in a public place. The assurance that my safety is garanteed in my own room is for certain the most essential ground.

In my experiences, trips intended to reach self-transcendence should be done well considered and at home. Because you literally won't and can't care what happens externally, the powerless organism you once were becomes a reality, without losing awareness.

To me, it became cloudless why nature waits with a conscious awareness in humans the first years after their birth.

 

[st.bot.32]

Now that sounds like excellent sitting to me. Although not all shivering has to do with bodily temperature (all kind of tremors can occur during psychedelic states of mind), it seems that simply by his taking care of your physical wellbeing you could regain your sense of composure.

Yeah, it was an excellent setting! It was all creative, mature people making music together. My favorite way to trip with other people. It's social but still leaves lots of room for lengthy periods of introspection, but in the same room, and all while sharing creative energy.

And it's true, it was such a simple solution. But I was kind of a mushroom newb (only done it like a few times before) and it never occured to me.