indefinite pause from trips

[st.bot.32]

Inexperienced people taking big doses in a setting where they are expected to be social is just a bad idea

When I look back at my early trips I frequently needed time alone, I just had so much internal anxiety and self-image to deal with at the time. Nowadays I quite like being around people even if I'm at a point where words are failing me..

 

[????????]

okay i had written this somewhat long post and when i hit the little button and went to get some food the network i was leeching from (not at home) apparently died

i'll synthesize:

@fork

i think every person can find a smoking rhythm that suits him/her and it depends on the organism of said person and the amount and type of activities to be done and so on. people need to experiment and find their own! i remember reading you being more productive after your decision. cool. though i find once a month a bit too sparse! i lit up daily and take 2 or 3 day breaks now and then, but it's okay since am not employed or studying at the moment...

@cm

yeah we were 4... and no sober sitter... maybe i should have had him eat just a bit to get a taste of the effects and the day after a proper trip? i don't know, now it's all conjectures. but he's a smart guy, i send some links his way about entheogens and the like. hope he has a good experience in the future. he does remember the come up and said he liked it.

about the complete consciousness, i think about that a lot and i think i'm doing fairly well. i'm aware of the traps of thinking "i need a partner to enjoy life". the thing is when i trip alone i feel all that energy in me and i can't help feeling overindulgent because i'm having it all myself!

mis... banana, what does your friend think about that day now?

 

[Brugmansia]

Only one way to find out.

Affirmative.

 

[Brugmansia]

At ????????, I have found cannabis to be the most pleasant and spiritual when doing it one weekend every two weeks. Or just one day a week.

But if you notice cannabis persists the same mind-expansion for too long, like seeing the depth of people's characters over and over again and not being caught by something new to enjoy or examine more profoundly, considering a longer time off may be a brilliant investment for later on.

One of the valuable effects of the cannabis high, is that unusual aspects of life which you may find normally boring during your daily routine, catches your attention with just a glance, sometimes leading to an urge to learn or discover more about it more elaborate. This also applies to unknown inner senses/desires. In my experience this inquisitiveness or eagerness to learn loses it's presence greatly when smoking too frequent.

One of the habits to smoke cannabis daily is because any form of satisfaction is increased in it's joy. Food, drinks, sex, sleep, music or just social interaction. But personally the difference between a high and sober levels, actually isn't that big anymore if smoking for one week straight.

Mary-Jane can make your heart *BEAT* if done in a very great dose after a month off. With the Dutch weed is just leads to a profound psychedelic effect, very noticeable messages for those who have their experience as a psychonaut.

But hey, cannabis is too good and life too short, as I have known too well during certain stages of my life, thinking high-head I can be.

The great discomfort of a train weck needs it's time to fade, later on 'the feeling' of such a moment, might be more of a clear reminder to arrange a very well structured set and setting, cautious selection of participants than an uncomfortable memory to look back on.

 

[ochho]

@???????? I am wondering.. how often did you use to go on trips?
And I am sure you made the right choice...Everything in it's time. If you feel psychedelics are not beneficial to you right now, then you shouldn't take them..Everything in your life will affect how useful those "tools" are.. so right now, they maybe provide no use for you. Well, I don't really talk from experience.. but this is how I feel about psychedelics.
And yes, as the others said..stay on the forum I, for one, have benefited from your presence on this forum, if not only by discovering some great discussions (The talks by Alan Watts), then by reading what you have to say. I am always curious by how others see things, and learning from their experiences.
P.L.U.R

@IJC, I agree on the "diminishing returns". There is no trip that has benefited me as much as my first one so far, for the sole reason that it was such a "revelation" in a way.. and until such another "revelation" occurs.. I don't see how I will get out of an experience as much as my first one. I am thinking the next time I feel that.. would be when I first try DMT/Ayahuasca.

And as far as sitters are concerned, I really feel it depends on the persons involved. As an example, for me.. a sitter would be devastating, as when I am on acid per say.. I feel very distant and disconnected from anyone sober (especially, it's very hard for me to communicate with others) so I keep my distances and stay in my "controlled" environment. (even friends sober..if they never tried psychedelics, will discomfort me somehow)
Also, I have only tripped with very close friends, and if I plan to trip with someone who I don't know very well in the future, that person would need to have experience.

 

[optional_mechanical]

Hi all,

????????, I have just come back from a break from tripping of over a year partly because of a social acid trip that went badly wrong. I wont go into too many details but it ended with several of us having to come down from an unexpectedly strong dose in a police station.

I think that use of entheogens can put a huge amount of stress on the mind and if you think your ready to take a break or stop then you probably a little more than slightly overdue.


Im new to this forum btw :lol:

 

[Forkbender]

@IJC, I agree on the "diminishing returns". There is no trip that has benefited me as much as my first one so far, for the sole reason that it was such a "revelation" in a way.. and until such another "revelation" occurs.. I don't see how I will get out of an experience as much as my first one. I am thinking the next time I feel that.. would be when I first try DMT/Ayahuasca.

I don't agree. The revelations are different in character, for sure, but they are nonetheless very real and, in a certain sense, deeper. Knowing how to navigate the mind is an aquired skill and once you develop this skill, there are new levels to reach.

 

[st.bot.32]

Knowing how to navigate the mind is an aquired skill and once you develop this skill, there are new levels to reach.

Such has been my experience as well... I'm so much more relaxed than when I was a newcomer, but this just lets me go further. Increasingly subtle things are coming out during my trips and leaving me thinking for a long while after. Aside from that I've found I can actually use the psychedelic state in a productive and creative way..

 

[????????]

ochho i tripped everytime my university semester ended so that'd be 6 months of inactivity followed by other 6 wherein i'd trip twice or something. it seems not much but i never took little doses. in fact, since having The Trip --in which i fasted hardcore for 3 days and then ate 3 tabs at once-- every experience has paled in comparison, except for the mushrooms and you already know what happened there.

btw, have you heard this recording of watts on lsd? what do you think?

at the end someone (mark watts?) says it was an "unnamed" psychedelic though the title at d.i.y. dharma says lsd. he also says he was with an "unnamed" man, though there are more people in the room and at the end alan calls the guy harry.

brugs i understand you perfectly.

and hey thanks for your words restin, bot, arimane, jesus, mello!

and welcome optional_mechanical

 

[ararat]

mis... banana, what does your friend think about that day now?

he has mixed feelings about it. he liked certain parts of the trip (I didn't take notice of that..) and some were pretty terrifying. he said that it was just too much, that he might be oversensitive to mushrooms, since me and the other friend had 7.5gr each (he had 5) and didn't dance the dance of Shiva or transformed into a stone.
he wants to trip again, but with less than 5gr, which I can understand perfectly. he doesn't seem to be traumatized whatsoever.
and he's sorry that he spoilt our trip, of course, but hey, he didn't choose to end up like that.

how does your friend feel about the trip he had?

 

[????????]

well about the same! he's not traumatized either and he's sorry about spoiling the fun. he apologized like a thousand times the day after but yeah how can one hold a grudge on the guy when he doesn't even remember half the things he did, and as you say, he didn't choose to end like that.

this makes me think that there are indeed some people who are oversensitive, just like there are others who need a lot to feel anything. my friend started to complain very early on, prior to freaking out, asking me how one could stop the trip. i told him the only way i know of is injecting this thing (i can't remember the name) that stops it instantly. what is that stuff called?

makes me wonder if he would've lost it anyways, independently of set and setting...

though once he started complaining for it to stop and i told him it was not possible shit went downhill from there since he was "that guy" you know, i tried to change the topic and distract us all from the bad vibes but no luck. i can't help thinking how we worrying about him could worsen things in a self-fulfilling spiral kind of way. i mean, we all had tripped before except him and we knew it would wear out and we'd be our regular selves again but he just didn't know for certain right? reminds me of my first trip when i was still somewhat tripping but went to bed to sleep... of course i couldn't so i spend hours in a mid-sleep-semi-awake-hypnagogia-weird-state. next i wondered why had gone to bed in the first place..

maybe tripping is so hardcore for the mind that we sometimes just can't deal with it and just want it to stop to be able to think how weird it all is but we can't, we are tripping, and our basic thinking abilities are compromised.

but i don't want to say "is not for everyone" and just leave it at that because we are all wired more or less the same way aren't we?

i guess the first trip of everyone must be indeed with and experienced sober sitter..

 

[magickmumu]

the thing is when i trip alone i feel all that energy in me and i can't help feeling overindulgent because i'm having it all myself!

I know this feeling.
With me it's the same. When I trip alone I sometimes feel the need to share the experience with someone.

I do trip alone a lot of the time. But I have noticed that when you're in a group, you can really get the energy going.

 

[st.bot.32]

this makes me think that there are indeed some people who are oversensitive (snip) but i don't want to say "is not for everyone" and just leave it at that because we are all wired more or less the same way aren't we?

i guess the first trip of everyone must be indeed with and experienced sober sitter..

For sure.. the first time I tripped my mates were complaining about how weak the acid was, meanwhile I was tripping so hard I could barely talk... and I had taken a lot less than them. I've taken much higher doses since then and I still haven't ever experienced some of the effects of that night again

As for 'not for everyone', I'm starting to think more and more that it actually isn't. Some people just aren't good at critical thinking, their trips reinforce rather than clear away personal delusions/problems. Aside from that, some people seem to just get too much negativity out of their trips and their trips become a downward spiral. Perhaps in the hands of a skilled psychotherapist they might be able to get something out of their trips, but outside of that, it's just a bad idea.

Reminds me, i got in a discussion recently (during a trip of all times) with someone who had tried acid a few times a long time ago.. and this person mentioned that essentially, in his view, people who take and enjoy acid are generally happy to be alive, happy and comfortable with themselves. On the other hand he couldn't do it.. he's never been able to find that contentment.. So the occasional time this person indulges, it will be something like E, etc. And in his case I agree.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

And as far as sitters are concerned, I really feel it depends on the persons involved. As an example, for me.. a sitter would be devastating, as when I am on acid per say.. I feel very distant and disconnected from anyone sober (especially, it's very hard for me to communicate with others) so I keep my distances and stay in my "controlled" environment. (even friends sober..if they never tried psychedelics, will discomfort me somehow)

That's why I specifically mentioned "experienced sitters", meaning experienced with psychedelic states of mind. When the sitter is experienced, you won't mind his or her sober presence. He or she will understand what you are experiencing, but be more in control of the physical environment, so you don't have to worry about that and can go inward / go higher.

You say it's difficult for you to communicate with others, but it should be understood that the sitter is not there to communicate with you. The sitter should mostly be silent.

Also, I have only tripped with very close friends, and if I plan to trip with someone who I don't know very well in the future, that person would need to have experience.

Well, why not ask one of your very close friends to sit for you, and offer to sit for them in return?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

a break from tripping of over a year partly because of a social acid trip that went badly wrong. I wont go into too many details but it ended with several of us having to come down from an unexpectedly strong dose in a police station.

That does it! My thoughts are confirmed again and again: social trips are dangerous. First there was MindAstronaut who was with a group of friends in a forest and during the peak fell from a tower, then there was the get together of Ed and magickmumu that went really wrong, and now there are three additional examples in this thread. It seems the only groups that have no such risk (or less) are those that gather in a ritual setting. Unless there is such a ritual setting (a sacred circle which no one feels inclined to leave) with a sitter or shaman present, anybody might get lost and get hurt. And that definitely includes nature trips.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

my friend started to complain very early on, prior to freaking out, asking me how one could stop the trip.

He should have known the answer to that question long before. That's one of the first things you discuss before giving someone a psychedelic.

i told him the only way i know of is injecting this thing (i can't remember the name) that stops it instantly. what is that stuff called?

A placebo? Because there's nothing that can really stop a trip, except drugging someone into a state that's extremely undesirable from a psychological point of view.

makes me wonder if he would've lost it anyways, independently of set and setting...

Good set and setting includes discussing beforehand what psychedelics are, what they do, what you can expect etc. It also includes a bond of trust between those tripping and those taking care of them (the sitters, preferably a man and a woman). Under ideal circumstances your friend wouldn't have had a bad trip, but an emotionally wrenching but meaningful and healing breakthrough experience. And you guys would have enjoyed your part of the group experiment, having the freedom and peace of mind to have your cosmic experiences, artistic insights etc.

i tried to change the topic and distract us all from the bad vibes but no luck.

Have you not seen the MAPS video "Dealing with difficult psychedelic experiences" yet? Distracting is NOT an option, it won't work!

maybe tripping is so hardcore for the mind that we sometimes just can't deal with it

No, everyone can deal with psychedelic states, even if they are very intense. Physical expression of internal turmoil is OK, but in a carefully prepared environment a person is encouraged to beat pillows instead of smashing windows. The release of physical and emotional tension is the same in both cases, but the latter is of course more messy and expensive.

and just want it to stop to be able to think how weird it all is but we can't, we are tripping, and our basic thinking abilities are compromised.

Yes, that's why someone should be around whose basic thinking abilities are not compromised.

i guess the first trip of everyone must be indeed with and experienced sober sitter..

Yes, but the sitter should not be seen as something "only necessary for noobs". In fact the sitter can help improve the quality and the "returns" of the trips for everyone, including the most experienced psychonauts.

 

[Forkbender]

I think it is possible to judge someone's character before he/she trips. I can choose the people I trip with, most people I trip with nowadays are experienced (at least ten trips). I do warn others to watch out for things like this. For example: a friend of mine (moderately experienced) is going to trip with his brother (2nd trip), who has social anxieties and makes a very stressed out impression. I think this is a bad idea, especially if I hear where and when they were planning on tripping. Fortunately this guy trusts his brother blindly, so he has an anchor, but unfortunately my friend doesn't know if he could handle being an anchor on a dose of mushrooms. I urge them to at least start indoors and see how it feels before going out, having someone on standby if things go bad, tell my friend he should tell his brother that he can stop the bad feelings by drinking sugarwater or something, etc.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

tell my friend he should tell his brother that he can stop the bad feelings by drinking sugarwater or something, etc.

????!!!!!!

Sugar is NOT going to take away bad feelings, that's a myth. A myth that's OK for ambulance personnel, but not for those who should know better.

Why stop the bad feelings in the first place?

Not sure what you mean with "when and where", but it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

 

[Forkbender]

Sugar doesn't take away anything UNLESS the person taking it believes it. = a placebo.

Sugar does have an effect, of course, it gives you a slight energy rush, which may be interpreted as a change in what is going on.

So what I meant was: my friend should make his brother believe he can stop the bad feelings by drinking it. Maybe I'm wrong, but programming someone with a way out is in my opinion less bad than leaving him without an experienced sitter. There is of course nothing wrong with feeling bad during a trip, but panicking in a public place isn't helpful either. What I was suggesting, after saying it was preferable to stay indoors, was the lesser of two evils.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I think such programming borders on manipulation and deception, and so should be avoided.

I understood what you meant, and I agree with all of that, but people shouldn't think that sugar is always going to be effective, and so they should really consider carefully whether they want to do mushrooms in a public place (a music festival?). When freaking out there, the sugar remedy may or may not be effective.